Is Nevilles Haze still the strongest haze?

[Dalaihempy]

LMAO!

Neviille´s Haze is Sam´s Haze female clone backcrossed to her son..
...Sam´s Haze x NL#1

Haze x Haze/NL#1,....and the haze males A & C never existed,it´s just made up bs

this is true,I wrote it...prove me wrong...you can´t lol!

hempy,
are you going to answer my previous question?
ARE YOU SURE??

Roco just when i think ow friendship and relationship starts to blossom you go sico on me amigo windo licker like i think we just need to part company and find sepret sandpits to play in lol.

Are you and so many posting here so jealous of the fact neville collected real haze and still to this day holds some of the best haze thats made avaluble on the market be it in hybrid form becouse you sure as shit have this massive hate tawards him and his line collected.

You and many others took it apon your self to put a lot of effert in trying to discredit him and it and most seam to be tied to the ot1 line.

I know this is hard for some of you to understand and the fact that strain lineage or orthenticity of a strain dont seam to bother a few of you or does the trueth or does honesty or does integrity but to others they matter a lot.

Do you know how funny it is from were i sit roco to have people that claim to realy be about the plant drop to such lows some of you seam to often and how amazing i find it that intelegent people as you and others posting here are can act or make out to be so dumb.

You have no clue roco and its time for you and the rest of your club members to understand many in this communty can conect the dots and have.

Roco why would i tell you or any others here what i know and was told why should i and have i attacked ace seeds no have i attacked any one of you in here no not unless some ones being a smart ass or a prick to me first then i give a little of the same back only right as i see it and just.


Its very simple nothing to say other than ot1 lines not haze was not collected from the haze brothers or is it related to seeds from the haze brothers.

Nevilles is and so is Sams and as far as i know so is toms from posi line be it hybrid form stated even by tom.

You know this roco but can not openly say it or are you willing to wich is sad and shows what side of the fence you sit mate.

You and many more no matter how hard you try can not change history some of the things i have read in here to support this bull shit is comical and for a bunch of pot people i find it rather od and sad to read such shit like your scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Ow and thanks for the messege sat very warm wards to lol.

Roco time you start speeking the truth time you act like a real pot person fact is roco i mite be under 50 but i have seen and been very active in cannabis since i was very young i took my cannabis hobbie very serouse and still do i never linked money or ego to it and knew from a very young age good cannabis came from good genetics i also knew how importent it was to find out all i possibly could about any plant line i grew and had now i belive most in here do to and you better belive it roco if some one grows a line like ot1 be it given for free or they pay for it want to know what it is and you and others think thats not importent well your kiding your selfs.

Lines been drawn in the sand by you roco as has mine from way back before cw fell and you and the rest of your mate you know the invite only clics know how i feel about you lot and the bull shit you have spewd for years yes like i give a toss im happy in my fox hole all alone at lest i wont stab my self in the back lol.

 

[Cinderella99]

"...time you act like a real pot person..."

Hempy, don't know if your just playin' or not, mang, but may be time to reassess?

How do you treat a retarded person? Like a person.

Best LOL.

 

[Raco]

Agine...LOL

pacific didnt call them haze just an old sativa

You didn´t answer my question...

WTF is this??

 

[jingles]

Anyone in this conversation right now ever smoke or grow any haze#northern lights,

 

[Cinderella99]

Anyone in this conversation right now ever smoke or grow any haze#northern lights,

Nahh: picked up a pack in 99 from Sensi-- still on ice, but the subsequent review in OG had about 20 people in a row saying that it was hay compared to the late 80's version-- perhaps they didn't know how to grow it properly? I'm interested to hear others' experience on this one as well as it was THE practical haze 15-20 years ago. Great Q since this is the strain that Shanti found killer parent stock from...

 

[Dalaihempy]

Roco grow up man its like your trying to clim a greased pole ya got no chance of hiting the top lol.

I can copy and paste to roco

I´ve seen Pacific (Lady J ??) being called a LIAR more than once...

Originally Posted by Raco
Posted by SG2 on CW March 18th 2005:
quote

Originally posted by Pacific
hi all,
wolfman,this is what ot1 said in a post about the haze you got from me.he posted this before I told him the line was being continued.

A little history.

There has never been to my knowledge any seed line of haze selected to just produce purple flowers and anyone selling seeds as such are not the full ticket.Haze was a loosely selected and somewhat variable IBL.It was a combination of some of the best sativas from round the world.Old Ed brought haze to Holland direct from the Haze brothers and that was who Wernard got them from.He never sold them as purple haze but original haze.It had them very inbred.if you sowed 100 seeds,75 to 80 of them were females.Out of these,only 5% of less would be special.The buds were on the foxtail type of line and the finished bud colour could be from a straw/golden yellow through to a mostly pale green to a very pale lilac/silvery look depending on the mother the bud came from..Generally the keepers needed round 16 weeks flowering and some wouldn´t finish at all unless taken down to 11/13 L/D.This was because the equatorial genes were very dominant.They need fairly intense lighting ,pref halide only.Once again I think that Wernard was the last person to have any pure Haze stock mothers in Holland and since he went bankrupt 4 o 5 years ago,there are no pure stock lines.Only so-called improved versions now exist,ie they have had indica crossed into them to shorten then flowering time and the plant height.It´s a shame this IBL was not conserved and also that several of the land based strains in its make up and now are lost.

He told me the beans were twelve years old!So that you got any plants at all is a miracle in itself
Peace


I will find that post from pacific roco were she offers the seeds as sativa just for you but have lots of info to go threw to find it but you need to ask your self why would some one give out what is sed to be haze then years later pm me asking if id pass on nh f2s to them little oxymoronish dont ya think.



Oldtimer1
9-28-1999
Posts:439
Vic my haze lines are separate from the conventional dutch hazes of sam the skunkman. To grow with tropicals indoors and under lighting, well totally different techniques are needed but to my mind they are worth it. This year I have passed on most of what I had left of my h seed stock to a friend and if he is successful the strain may carry on we will see. I do have some mums from a series of crosses m between h and ss of which hd s one, its my fav smoke and takes 9 to 10 w on 12 h.


Oldtimer1
7-16-2001
Posts: 1,032
Budm, to answer your question no, this haze line is from a commune north of Sacramento and evolved separately but at the same time as Dutchmen haze lines.[ I hope this helps a bit Budm, I hope i don't owe you any mail I've been ill gain and have lost track a bit. cha cal I for one would appreciate hearing about your developing scrog system and come to that any further developments with scuffing.
All the best Ot1

 

[indifferent]

I did a lot of research into the origins of Haze, and none of the stories ring all that true, too many contradictions and discrepancies.

Let's quickly recap Sam's story:

Haze was created by a pair of growers in Corralitos, near Santa Cruz in the years 71-73, starting with Mexican and Colombian seeds they crossed those the first year then the second year grew out their Mexican x Colombian hybrid. In the next two years they added pollen from Thai and South Indian genes. Sam lived next door to one of the Haze Bros and received seeds from them which he worked to try to preserve the Haze genetics. He took them to Holland and gave Haze genes to Neville, Neville made hybrids and sold them, Sam got pissed off and the rest is history. Sam says all modern Haze genes stem from him as per this story.

Neville's story of how he got his Haze is quite simple:

He went to the US collecting genes in the early 80s (same trip(s) that turned up Northern Lights, G13 etc) and while in NYC was given some Haze beans that he was told were from 1969 Haze Bros stock.

Now, obviously these two stories don't fit, according to Sam, Haze as a four-way hybrid of Mexican, Colombian, Thai and Indian genes didn't even exist until the end of the 1973 growing season in California so Neville's story of Haze seeds from 1969 is totally at odds with Sam's version of events.

Now, the most important thing to bear in mind when discussing the origins of Haze is this - we only have the words of two people, Sam and Neville, and both of those people had a large financial interest in selling seeds of Haze at one time or other. I mean, to say that Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniack cooked up the first Apple in their garage isn't really how Apple Computers Inc was born, many others played a role, but for the purposes of Steve Job's ego and his commercial, financial interests, it's become the accepted history.

Haze the weed was almost definitely around before Sam claims, 1973 is way too late, old heads in Cali recall Haze was around in the 1960s, but due to the nature of the scene, being underground and illegal and downright criminal, there are no written records. Haze in the 60s was sold by the BOEL, it was grown in Hawaii and shipped into the west coast in vacuum sealed packages, this was a huge operation using the best packaging technology at the time as this Haze was the very finest weed available and commanded the highest prices. (Sam mentions 500 dollars an ounce in the early 70s, and I don't doubt it). These packages contained sinsemilla, ocassionally there may have been one or two seeds in a package, but that was it. The BOEL's major market for weed for a time was NYC, so a lot of those Haze packages would have been shipped across country to NYC and it is pretty likely that the very few seeds that turned up from those packages were saved.

At the same time as the BOEL were shipping Haze from Hawaii, there were a whole host of communes in the Bay Area growing weed and from those communes came two strains that were known as Skunk and Haze. Whether their Haze was grown from BOEL seeds from Hawaii or was a hybrid made in the Bay Area I don't know. The first modern strains were bred in this region and southern Oregon, Jerry Biesler created California Orange from seeds he collected in Afghanistan in this period, for example. Sacred Seeds was said to be a group of six people in the Bay Area and they are now either dead or have moved on. Mendocino Joe, the creator of Romulan went upto Vancouver and stayed there. He is said to be the key individual behind the creation of the Bay Area/Sacred Seeds Skunk,the one that really stank like RKS.

It is said that the BOEL only gave Haze seeds to one other group and that was a group of Brits running a legal cannabis farm in Afghanistan producing cannabis for pharmaceutical companies, they gave them Haze seeds in exchange for seeds of their best indica hashplants.

So, I think the story of the BOEL and the Haze from Hawaii is true, with some research, I could probably prove it, I have the full text of the Senate Hearings into the BOEL and some other documents I need to read. The Neville story about getting seeds in NYC I am also pretty sure is true, and it could well be that those seeds are from BOEL shipments in the late 60s, specifically, 1969. I mean, the BOEL probably imported tons upon tons of weed into NYC in 1969, they were a huge smuggling operation, it is not stretching the bounds of probability to believe that Neville met someone in NYC who had handled hundreds if not thousands of packages of BOEL weed, splitting them down into nickels and dimes and elbows and that person had collected and saved the seeds that fell out and a decade and a half later gave or sold them to Neville who was in town looking for genetics.

OT1, well he may well have been involved in that legal farm in Afghanistan and gotten hold of his Haze genes that way. I think he said he travelled in the USA in the 60s/70s so he could have picked up seeds there, there would have been plenty of weed on the west coast called Haze, just as now there is a lot of weed called Kush. How many OG Kushes are there? How many Hazes do you think there were in Cali back then? Remember, you could get 500 dollars an ounce for Haze so I expect every enterprising outdoor growers of fine sativa weed tacked the name Haze onto his product at one time or another.

I'm told the original BOEL Haze was truly something special and if you tasted it, you would recognise that taste instantly in any modern version. However, how many people are there here who can say that ever tasted the original BOEL Haze? Whether it's Sam's Haze, Nev's Haze or OT1's Haze, if it's good smoke it, if it's not, bin it, that's what it boils down to, fuck the politics and history, it's the genes that really matter!

I just ignore hempy because his semi-english is hard to understand and he just seems like a bitter, angry old git. Aussies love to bloody argue, they fight like hell over Holdens and Fords for chrissakes, and this Haze debate is every bit as pointless! Why the hell are folks still arguing over the same old shit? The people who know the truth are either dead, in prison, have moved away from the scene completely and don't care, or breed parakeets or head up organisations commercialising the extraction of cannabinoids for pharmaceutical use. You ain't getting to the bottom of the Haze story, and that's probably it's greatest appeal - the endless possibilities for argument!

Raco, I can't believe you are still interesting in this argument man! With all those wonderful rare genes you grow, I would have thought making hybrids of those, working with new and exotic genes would occupy you and you would rise above these arguments! Not criticising you amigo, just surprised you care because I think the stuff that yourself, dubi and charlie are working with is far more interesting than this old argument!

 

[Cinderella99]

"...It is said that the BOEL only gave Haze seeds to one other group and that was a group of Brits running a legal cannabis farm in Afghanistan producing cannabis for pharmaceutical companies..."

Dude, no offence, but when you start with sources like "It is said..." you sound a bit like you're using the same sources as JessE was:



"...Whether it's Sam's Haze, Nev's Haze or OT1's Haze, if it's good smoke it, if it's not, bin it, that's what it boils down to, fuck the politics and history, it's the genes that really matter!"

Hear hear

Some of the best hazes EVER are not even an F2,3,5 seed idea yet...Peace.

 

[BloodyTreez]

Very well said Indifferent. I am relatively new here and won't step foot in any argument. lol... but it makes no sense arguing genetics, alot of things are just not what they appear to be, and vice versa. Let fine genetics speak for themselves.

I love sativas and sat dom hybrids. I love being high for 3+ hours. I smoked the real purple haze back in the 90's in NYC, big deal. Some of the best I have tasted was some cambodian chocolate bud. That was some heavy indica stone, very racy high. I have seen buddies literally doze off after 2 hits on a dutch, literally mouth wide open, dutch clasped between fingers, eyes closed while sitting upright in a frozen position for more than 5 minutes. Now that was some bomb chronic. In brooklyn the linden lightning, straight jamaican high grade as well, very very racy, super potent, smoking too much is a guarantee to induce effects of paranoia. Those were the good days for I man.

One word of advice; If it looks like a haze, smells like a haze, tastes like a haze and most importantly gets you high like a haze is supposed, then guess what. You don't need any so-called authority on "Haze or Mary Jane" to tell me or any one for that matter to tell me it has some haze genetics in it. Regardless if its from Tom, Dick, or Harry. Buy em all, try em all, and you will see for yourself the "Haze" in them.

Until then keep on smoking the very best, so you can keep the good vibes flowing and negative karma out of the mix. Remember if you find yourself getting edgy on a thread, just go take a good bong hit, or smoke a fat spliff of your best grade, or f.. it make a mix of your favourite strains and have a blast. Love the life you have, cherish the herb, its been around long before all the seed banks made it available. They have done a great job for humanity, but if you really love the 'erb you would truly travel and enjoy true land race strains with psychadelic trippy highs, leave you floating on a cloud for hours. Would you call that a haze if it smelled and tasted like one??

Just my thoughts ladies and gentlemen, just what I am thinking at the moment.

peace,
BT

 

[indifferent]

Wicked post BloodyTreez, I agree with you mate, well said!

 

[Dalaihempy]

I did a lot of research into the origins of Haze, and none of the stories ring all that true, too many contradictions and discrepancies.

Let's quickly recap Sam's story:

Haze was created by a pair of growers in Corralitos, near Santa Cruz in the years 71-73, starting with Mexican and Colombian seeds they crossed those the first year then the second year grew out their Mexican x Colombian hybrid. In the next two years they added pollen from Thai and South Indian genes. Sam lived next door to one of the Haze Bros and received seeds from them which he worked to try to preserve the Haze genetics. He took them to Holland and gave Haze genes to Neville, Neville made hybrids and sold them, Sam got pissed off and the rest is history. Sam says all modern Haze genes stem from him as per this story.

Neville's story of how he got his Haze is quite simple:

He went to the US collecting genes in the early 80s (same trip(s) that turned up Northern Lights, G13 etc) and while in NYC was given some Haze beans that he was told were from 1969 Haze Bros stock.

Now, obviously these two stories don't fit, according to Sam, Haze as a four-way hybrid of Mexican, Colombian, Thai and Indian genes didn't even exist until the end of the 1973 growing season in California so Neville's story of Haze seeds from 1969 is totally at odds with Sam's version of events.

Now, the most important thing to bear in mind when discussing the origins of Haze is this - we only have the words of two people, Sam and Neville, and both of those people had a large financial interest in selling seeds of Haze at one time or other. I mean, to say that Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniack cooked up the first Apple in their garage isn't really how Apple Computers Inc was born, many others played a role, but for the purposes of Steve Job's ego and his commercial, financial interests, it's become the accepted history.

Haze the weed was almost definitely around before Sam claims, 1973 is way too late, old heads in Cali recall Haze was around in the 1960s, but due to the nature of the scene, being underground and illegal and downright criminal, there are no written records. Haze in the 60s was sold by the BOEL, it was grown in Hawaii and shipped into the west coast in vacuum sealed packages, this was a huge operation using the best packaging technology at the time as this Haze was the very finest weed available and commanded the highest prices. (Sam mentions 500 dollars an ounce in the early 70s, and I don't doubt it). These packages contained sinsemilla, ocassionally there may have been one or two seeds in a package, but that was it. The BOEL's major market for weed for a time was NYC, so a lot of those Haze packages would have been shipped across country to NYC and it is pretty likely that the very few seeds that turned up from those packages were saved.

At the same time as the BOEL were shipping Haze from Hawaii, there were a whole host of communes in the Bay Area growing weed and from those communes came two strains that were known as Skunk and Haze. Whether their Haze was grown from BOEL seeds from Hawaii or was a hybrid made in the Bay Area I don't know. The first modern strains were bred in this region and southern Oregon, Jerry Biesler created California Orange from seeds he collected in Afghanistan in this period, for example. Sacred Seeds was said to be a group of six people in the Bay Area and they are now either dead or have moved on. Mendocino Joe, the creator of Romulan went upto Vancouver and stayed there. He is said to be the key individual behind the creation of the Bay Area/Sacred Seeds Skunk,the one that really stank like RKS.

It is said that the BOEL only gave Haze seeds to one other group and that was a group of Brits running a legal cannabis farm in Afghanistan producing cannabis for pharmaceutical companies, they gave them Haze seeds in exchange for seeds of their best indica hashplants.

So, I think the story of the BOEL and the Haze from Hawaii is true, with some research, I could probably prove it, I have the full text of the Senate Hearings into the BOEL and some other documents I need to read. The Neville story about getting seeds in NYC I am also pretty sure is true, and it could well be that those seeds are from BOEL shipments in the late 60s, specifically, 1969. I mean, the BOEL probably imported tons upon tons of weed into NYC in 1969, they were a huge smuggling operation, it is not stretching the bounds of probability to believe that Neville met someone in NYC who had handled hundreds if not thousands of packages of BOEL weed, splitting them down into nickels and dimes and elbows and that person had collected and saved the seeds that fell out and a decade and a half later gave or sold them to Neville who was in town looking for genetics.

OT1, well he may well have been involved in that legal farm in Afghanistan and gotten hold of his Haze genes that way. I think he said he travelled in the USA in the 60s/70s so he could have picked up seeds there, there would have been plenty of weed on the west coast called Haze, just as now there is a lot of weed called Kush. How many OG Kushes are there? How many Hazes do you think there were in Cali back then? Remember, you could get 500 dollars an ounce for Haze so I expect every enterprising outdoor growers of fine sativa weed tacked the name Haze onto his product at one time or another.

I'm told the original BOEL Haze was truly something special and if you tasted it, you would recognise that taste instantly in any modern version. However, how many people are there here who can say that ever tasted the original BOEL Haze? Whether it's Sam's Haze, Nev's Haze or OT1's Haze, if it's good smoke it, if it's not, bin it, that's what it boils down to, fuck the politics and history, it's the genes that really matter!

I just ignore hempy because his semi-english is hard to understand and he just seems like a bitter, angry old git. Aussies love to bloody argue, they fight like hell over Holdens and Fords for chrissakes, and this Haze debate is every bit as pointless! Why the hell are folks still arguing over the same old shit? The people who know the truth are either dead, in prison, have moved away from the scene completely and don't care, or breed parakeets or head up organisations commercialising the extraction of cannabinoids for pharmaceutical use. You ain't getting to the bottom of the Haze story, and that's probably it's greatest appeal - the endless possibilities for argument!

Raco, I can't believe you are still interesting in this argument man! With all those wonderful rare genes you grow, I would have thought making hybrids of those, working with new and exotic genes would occupy you and you would rise above these arguments! Not criticising you amigo, just surprised you care because I think the stuff that yourself, dubi and charlie are working with is far more interesting than this old argument!

Saying i think is not good inuf fact if ot1 him self has sed it is not linked to the haze.

From ace seed.......Our haze seeds came from the last haze reproductions done in California in the late 70s and they have a great preservation value for us.


Originally Posted by Oldtimer1 at bcg forum

My haze was brought here [uk] from the states during its development it was still being developed field scale and may not represent the finished product.

Odly not one person sed a thing on this alone fact is simple haze has to be from the brothers haze no matter how hard you try and dress up an ugly women she will still remain an ugly women time some in here stop with the smoke and mirriors and just move forwed ow and by the way no one has ever posted on were or who neville collected his haze seeds from.

Let me tell you a little about aussies we hate bull shit we hate seeing the normal hard working person the battler being riped of and we hate smart ass know it als we will give the shirt off ow back to help any person if they need ow help and no we dont figjht over holden and fords we take the piss out of each we get on with most people but will openly say we dont like lowed and we do it best americas then most or ever you normal americans do to right lol as for canadians well some one needs to love them lol.

Lift your game amigo every one knows my spelling suxs but were not here to do english class are we see you are lowering your sell mate lift your self up from the bottom feeders.

As for hawiian weed imported here and yes i had this talk with sam who sed we did not get it you guys need to go find a link i posted in the aussie forum about the aussie cannabis history you be suprised to know most if not all thia and lots more cannabis imported into the us came via australia not only that we infact grew it and then imported it into the us via San fransisco were it was then past out you can take the piss out of australians but you cant take the bull shit out of the likes of you mate.

It gives street prices of hawiian and other things to long read but very intresting.

There was a time were the australians and americans infact ran the largest import and supplie of cannabis hash opium or heroin feds us and aussier service men along with aussie and us police and even the mafia did i say cia no did now tho and think a few more to lol.

Reality is such a bitch and the reality of haze is few in the seed bisness infact have it i sure dont best i got is a lot of haze hybrids and a 75% haze line called nevilles haze that i would with a well selected plant put up aginst any sat posted on this and other board reality of the beast is people are hear to stroke each others ego others to make money most to just hand with like minded people and shear others to read gain info and go off get seeds and grow there own meds they are the ones my friend that you and any other supporting bull shit need to bow your head in shame to.

 

[happyhi]

happy new year,
what a goofy discussion. who is the BOEL? sounds like the borg!

I really did post the true story to the original haze that began in '69 in santa cruz and died in '81.
As you can see from my avatar the original haze was memorialized by this artwork back in '75 for the '76 harvest. Unless any of you were actually there growing it i suspect all you can do is talk about bullshit since most of what i read here took place long after the haze in it's original form had come and gone!

and just for the record there are no haze brothers that was just made up for entertainment!
peace/hh

 

[eugenegreen]

... you know? apart from all the bad grammar and punctuation issues with most of these posts, the substantive matter of haze is very real.. we can bitch until june though, does it matter??

"What's beef? Beef is when you need two gatts to go to sleep
Beef is when your moms ain't safe up in the streets
Beef is when I see you
Guaranteed to be in ICU, one more time
What's beef? Beef is when you make your enemies start your Jeep
Beef is when you roll no less than thirty deep
Beef is when I see you
Guaranteed to be in ICU, check it"

 

[Dalaihempy]

happy new year,
what a goofy discussion. who is the BOEL? sounds like the borg!

The Brotherhood of Eternal Love was an informal organization of psychedelic drug enthusiasts and dealers that operated in the late 1960s. The group was founded in Laguna Beach, California. The group was headquartered in the Mystic Arts bookstore on Pacific Coast Highway. At that time, Laguna Beach was a common stopping point for those traveling south from Haight Ashbury to Mexico. Timothy Leary, the excommunicated Harvard psychology professor and devotee of free love and author of "turn on, tune in and drop out," became the godfather of the group.

One contributor writes that the group was composed of local surfers, drug users and rich kids from Orange County, Los Angeles and the Pasadena area. This is contested by another contributor, who points out that the genesis of the Brotherhood was a rag-tag crew of very young street toughs in Compton, California - in a poor neighborhood - who in the course of smoking multiple kinds of vegetation and swallowing random available pills for recreational purposes, accidentally encountered LSD. At least a half-dozen of them found their lives transformed by that experience and, in due time, moved south to modest bungalows in the little-known town of Laguna Beach. They tended to wear simple cotton garments, sometimes robes. Most were vegetarians, and they daily spent considerable time in prayer and simply doing good deeds. Many of them continued to practice their own version of Christianity while opening research into Hinduism, Vajrayana Buddhism, and indigenous and Eastern religions as Brotherhood members happened to find them.

For several years, their psychedelic activities were underwritten by selling high-quality marijuana. As business expanded, they decided to see if they could build a national distribution network. Farmer John and Chuck Scott bought a new station wagon, loaded it up with kilo bricks of marijuana and drove from Laguna Beach to the Holland Tunnel. They took almost six weeks to move the load because New York's hippie market for marijuana at the time of their arrival was small and informal. Distribution of the Brotherhood's first wholesale load began the creation of an entirely new market and sales pyramid.

After sales prospered, the Brotherhood began to send researchers around the world to look into purchasing opportunities. Red Lebanese and black Afghan hashish were favored because of their strength, perfumes, and popularity among buyers in the USA. Other varieties of hashish were also purchased and imported in volume. At a certain point, the cash flow was more than sufficient for them to set up their own laboratory in which to manufacture LSD. The elder chemist was the bright and quirky Owsley Stanley, nicknamed Bear, who favored "cocktails", mixtures of LSD and small amounts of amphetamine, though there was no amphetamine in Owsley's acid. It was pure, and much of it was actually made by Nick Sand.

By the late 1960s, what had begun as a brotherhood of idealistic young pacifists had been infiltrated and corrupted by cynical outsiders, some of them armed. The brotherhood of love was gone; the informal organization's name was arrogated by punks and crooks who soon became notorious and widely detested.

The Brotherhood operated originally as a psychedelics distribution network throughout the United States, most notably in California where the organization received large shipments of hashish from Pakistan and Afghanistan, helped by Welshman Howard Marks, now a prominent figure in the cannabis culture. Some of the best Hashish that was imported were the half circle 'Elephant Ears' in the early 1970s .With funds from their hashish smuggling, the organization produced and distributed large amounts of the legendary "Orange Sunshine" LSD. The organization was headquartered on a ranch in Garner Valley, near Idyllwild. Members paid the Weather Underground to break Timothy Leary out of prison.[1] The organization may have been inspired by, but did not evolve from, Timothy Leary's League for Spiritual Discovery or the International Foundation for Internal Freedom. Many of its members were interested in peace and in ending the Vietnam war. A 1972 Rolling Stone article dubbed them the "Hippie Mafia."

The Brotherhood also had a small vegetarian restaurant on Pacific Coast Highway, two blocks north of Mystic Arts, named "Love Animals, Don't eat them". This restaurant operated with volunteers, with much of the food donated. Menu items did not have a price and patrons left donations for the food ordered.

Members of the Brotherhood felt that the Vietnam War was not only illegal but that President Richard Nixon was using drug laws to imprison political opponents. Members Johnny Gail and Victor Forsythe advocated putting LSD in Nixon's punch. Grace Slick was recruited for that effort but the mission was not successful. Victor Forsythe was entrapped into sales of Brotherhood hashish in 1972 and after a year long trial, which resulted in a hung jury, he jumped bail and fled to Ecuador in 1973. In late 1974, Victor was arrested by US drug agents, and after three months of fighting extradition, was returned to the United States where he pleaded guilty in a plea bargain arrangement with the Orange County prosecutor. His book, Birth of an Angel, describes details of his arrest. During his imprisonment in Orange Country jail Victor was assaulted by a white supremacist prison gang and almost killed. After recuperating in the hospital, Victor completed the rest of his sentence in solitary confinement.

Timothy Leary had this to say about the Brotherhood: "The whole concept of the Brotherhood of Eternal Love is like a bogeyman invented by the narcs. The brotherhood was about eight surfer kids from Southern California, Laguna Beach, who took the LSD, and they practiced the religion of the worship of nature, and they'd go into the mountains. But they were not bigshots at all. None of them ever drove anything better than a VW bus. They were just kind of in it for the spiritual thrill."[2]


Just some of what you can google and read on them.

Happy new years.

 

[indifferent]

Hempy, you just repeat the same old arguments over and over, grade A for consistency mate but it's gotten old now and has no more strength than the first time. Quite clearly you have no time for ot1 so why don't you go to his forum uk420 and debate it with him instead of sitting here and sounding like a grumpy old git.

Happyhi, none of the story you claim convinces me, never has. You're from Cali and old enough to know the origins of Haze but you never heard of the Brotherhood Of Eternal Love?

I do agree with you on the Haze Bros though, I've always thought they were a construction of Sam and Rob Clarke, I mean, apart from mentions in high Times, mostly in articles written by Rob Clarke as 'R' then there is no record of them.

This Haze controversy gets right to the heart of a major conspiracy and I'm not sure I believe all or even part of the conspiracy theory but it's quite entertaining in a way. High Times, Rob Clarke, Sam Skunkman, Ed Rosenthal, Jorge Cervantes, Mel Frank, there are very few major characters in the accepted history of modern drug cannabis, but as we all know, history is written by the winners and those guys are very definitely the winners in modern cannabis history, they have all made a good living and avoided long stays in jail and built big reps for themselves. But are they responsible for all that they claim? Were their other folks who were responsible for some of the early breeding efforts and creation of the 'building block' strains? Of course there were, but they either ended up getting busted and spending long terms in prison or got out of the scene to lead mainstream lives. Because half a century has passed, a lot of the early pioneers are dead or have had no connection at all to the cannabis scene for a long time, leaving others to take all the credit.

The story of Skunk is a good example, it is pretty much a sure thin because I have heard the same story from multiple sources, that there was a bay area collective called Sacred Seeds, and they created Skunk, there were 6 key players and one was Mendocino Joe who moved up to Vancouver and became known as Romulan Joe. He was an outlaw biker type which was typical of these people, they lived on the fringes of society and documenting what they did and telling people about it wasn't on the agenda so it's easy for the truth of what happened to be lost, theirs was not a culture of open mouths. Sacred Seeds are said to have given out seeds to prospective members to grow as a test to see if they were worthy of membership, and one of the conditions of membership was that any seeds you made were shared around the collective.

Sam was involved with Sacred Seeds, he says that, others have also said it, but have claimed he wasn't one of the 6 key people who originally created Skunk, but a junior member of the collective. It is immaterial now anyway who did what exactly, what we do know is several of the key members of Sacred Seeds were bust and Sam had Skunk genetics from this group that he later worked with to create his Skunk #1.

So I think it's likely that Haze came from similar origins - that Sam got seeds from growers in Cali, whether from someone in Sacred Seeds or not, maybe what Sam started with to make Haze came from the BOEL Hawaiian Haze shipments, probably only Sam knows for sure.

Let's give Sam credit for what we know he did for sure - turn up in Amsterdam in 84/85 with a shitload of seeds of high quality genetics and the knowledge to grow and breed with them, he kickstarted the modern seed scene and for that he deserves a lot of kudos.

But I don't for one minute believe that all the seedlines he took to Holland were all his own work and that includes Haze. Of course, there was the best part of a decade between the original creation of Skunk, Haze, Cali Orange, Early Pearl and others on the west coast and Sam arriving in Holland, and he could have heavily worked those lines in that time, stabilising them, he has written about preserving Haze genes and he probably did the same with other strains in this time, so again, credit is due for that.

But I think Sam has omitted to tell where some of the genes he took to Holland came from, why I don't know, but Cali Orange is one example, it was bred by Jerry Biesler and the story is Sam bought seeds of it from Jerry's ex-wife which he then took with him to Holland.

The thing I like to take from all this controversy and speculation is the original situation that created the genes that became the building blocks of today's lines - the Bay Area communes. Sam and Neville and a handful of Dutch businessmen commercialised the genes from the west coast and Ed Rosenthal, Rob Clarke and High Times provided the marketing and a lot of money was made. But I think it is high time we reclaimed that Bay Area/West Coast spirit and formed breeding collectives of our own, and I know there are already many out there that do cooperate with others, but the commercialisation and huge profits to be made in the seed industry have drawn many to the dark side.

Instead of arguing the toss about the origins of skunk and haze,we should be getting together to find new and special P1 parentals to breed new hybrid cultivars of that quality.

 

[DocLeaf]

Nice post

I think it is high time we reclaimed that Bay Area/West Coast spirit and formed breeding collectives of our own, and I know there are already many out there that do cooperate with others, but the commercialisation and huge profits to be made in the seed industry have drawn many to the dark side.

Collectives are the way forward IMO! Not only are social clubs protected by constitutional law,, but they also offer a great opportunity to pool plant genetics together locally.

Ultimately the seed/clone industry supports the distribution of genetics over much longer global distances... to non-collective growers and most importantly today medi. users.

Peace n love

N.B. Neville's Haze is whack! (pants)! There's much finer 'Haze' examples available than that for getting high ! The worst sample from Amsterdam we ever smoked in the UK was a Neville's baggie

 

[Sativa_Grows]

N.B. Neville's Haze is whack! (pants)! There's much finer 'Haze' examples available than that for getting high ! The worst sample from Amsterdam we ever smoked in the UK was a Neville's baggie

Must have been the Greenhouse (post 2000) version which, as I stated before, is a completely different plant.

Family of Breed: Nl5/HazeA x HazeC

This is a cross between a Michoacán Haze from Mexico and god knows what else, we don't really know anymore the pedigree of this beautiful plant(chuckle).

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAttitudeInc#p/u/12/rgNKwO-IC-g

happy new year,
what a goofy discussion. who is the BOEL? sounds like the borg!

Brotherhood of Eternal Love
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_of_eternal_love
There's also a thread about them here on Icmag.

 

[Cinderella99]

Hmmm....No mention of "haze" that I can find from BOEL late 60's, but I'd sure like to get a hold of some of that Sri Lankan "Mars pot" that Thumper, a then 18 year old BOEL member, referred to in an interview with a local periodical here back in 2005:

"...At one point, Thumper says, Gale and a friend went surfing in Sri Lanka and discovered the villagers grew a powerful variety of marijuana. Gale offered to buy their whole crop. But the villagers didn't want money; they wanted Levi's jeans. "They headed back [to Laguna] and made everyone go to every Sears, looking in the paper for a cheap pair of Levi's," says Thumper. "And they shipped them over there and bought all this pot. They called it Mars pot. It was high-grade pot; it put Oaxacan, Michoacan and Colombian Gold to shame..."

I don't find anything to indicate that BOEL were growers or dealers of haze, just smugglers and dealers of non-domestic land races. If all of this great haze was (or could be) being grown in the hills up north at the time, why would they need to continuously smuggle from South America, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, etc? There are zillions of clandestine places to grow out hazes between San O, Fallbrook and Idyllwild. We're talking pre-CAMP eye-in-the-sky times, yes?

"...But music, meditation and surfing became secondary to drug smuggling. Stubby had friends in Mexico who provided the Brotherhood with tons of cheap pot smuggled on the bodies of people who simply walked across the border. Soon, he and other Brothers were transporting marijuana and hash from all over the world.

"Everybody started traveling and getting involved in it," Stubby says. Serendipity bred instant smuggling routes. "You'd be somewhere halfway around the world and bump into a Brother and they would take it from there. It was like the Lord put it there for us."

The favorite source of cheap, highly potent pot was Afghanistan. From there, the Brotherhood would transport it to Germany. "Then we'd buy a Porsche, ship it to Canada and then drive it across the border..."

 

[BloodyTreez]

With so many people in the world growing quality herb, a huge percentage don't use the internet and are living far away from the "civilized world". I am more than a 1000 percent sure that there are growers/breeders of some of the finest herb on the planet that have yet to be in the hands of any seed bank.

I like to believe that there is absolutely nothing new under the sun, its not what you do but how its done. The odds that some planters / breeders made crosses similar to and possibly identical to the common denomination of mex x colom x thai to create "haze". Be honest with yourself, we live in "now".

Here is a fine example, take the bay area, six buddies and we are all growing high-grades, on our own, but using similiar stock making our own crosses and sharing with each other. Out of the blues one of the six, decides he has come up with something special and it will be called "haze".

Think about it, do you really believe that out of the entire gene pool of Mary Jane the world over that the crosses that made "haze" were only done by the Haze bros, BOEL, or whoever wants to take claim for it. This is where Hempy gets a few points -lol. I have smoked equatorial sativas which represents all of the characteristics of "Haze". Does that mean it is "haze"? I wouldn't say so, but the high and taste says so.

I believe the term "Haze" is just used as a marketing tool, and any sativa with the haze traits (long flowering time, incense/sandlewood smell, spacy, trippy extra longlasting heady high could be deemed a haze. Thats real talk for you. Going after a "name brand" well when you are young and don't know better we do that. Experience shows us that "brand" does not mean quality all the time.

I said it before, put all those haze hybrids to the test, and see if it can get you hazed the way you feel it should be. Higher than you have ever been your entire life. Equatorial sativas do just that if you can find the right planter/breeder. People usually lie, especially for financial gain/fame. If you believe that "haze" could only come from 1 or 2 sources you are living in a dream world. What about all the people who were smoking haze back in the 60's, 70's? Do you believe that none of them saved their seeds or gave em to friends in various parts of the world. People who never went commercial, but passed seeds via hand to good friends who in return did the same. Its real easy to understand when we look at the basics, people get so caught up in the times - technology, hype, advertisements, that fail to understand that before all the tech we have now - the internet.

Fact is others besides the ones who associated themselves and became famous for it like Neville, Sam, others etc. were already doing and are continuing to do what these guys did for the dutch. In other words, the works of Neville and Sam most definitely have had a major impact in the UK. But for those of us located in the US and tropics, Haze is or should I say a common herb. NYC uptown haze is the shit!!

Like I said looks like one, smells like one, tastes like one, has the effects like one, how the hell can you look me in my face and tell me its not one?! The nerve of some people, who cares if Sam did it, the OT1, Neville or my grandmothers uncle! Enjoy the plant God put it here for you to use, not for you to put your name on it. lol...

My posts are not of the intentions to be-little anyone. I just hope that we can see that we are all here doing the same thing, and more togetherness is needed. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but to start name calling and absurdities over the origins of "haze" almost 30 years ago, it does not matter. Because "haze" is a mutt, it never was a pure strain and of course never will be. So what do you do now that its like that? You search until you find a high quality equatorial sativa with the haze experession, and that will obviously be the closest to the real deal.

People lie, a mango tree cannot produce an orange. The proof is in the pudding, as far as I am concerned you or anyone for that matter can tell me anything. Peace, happy growing folks

BT

 

[Cinderella99]

"...My posts are not of the intentions to be-little anyone. I just hope that we can see that we are all here doing the same thing, and more togetherness is needed. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but to start name calling and absurdities over the origins of "haze" almost 30 years ago, it does not matter. Because "haze" is a mutt, it never was a pure strain and of course never will be. So what do you do now that its like that? You search until you find a high quality equatorial sativa with the haze experession, and that will obviously be the closest to the real deal..."

I think if you read this whole thread, you'll find that most people agree with what you're saying