Is Nevilles Haze still the strongest haze?

[Dalaihempy]

Hempy, you just repeat the same old arguments over and over, grade A for consistency mate but it's gotten old now and has no more strength than the first time. Quite clearly you have no time for ot1 so why don't you go to his forum uk420 and debate it with him instead of sitting here and sounding like a grumpy old git.

Happyhi, none of the story you claim convinces me, never has. You're from Cali and old enough to know the origins of Haze but you never heard of the Brotherhood Of Eternal Love?

I do agree with you on the Haze Bros though, I've always thought they were a construction of Sam and Rob Clarke, I mean, apart from mentions in high Times, mostly in articles written by Rob Clarke as 'R' then there is no record of them.

This Haze controversy gets right to the heart of a major conspiracy and I'm not sure I believe all or even part of the conspiracy theory but it's quite entertaining in a way. High Times, Rob Clarke, Sam Skunkman, Ed Rosenthal, Jorge Cervantes, Mel Frank, there are very few major characters in the accepted history of modern drug cannabis, but as we all know, history is written by the winners and those guys are very definitely the winners in modern cannabis history, they have all made a good living and avoided long stays in jail and built big reps for themselves. But are they responsible for all that they claim? Were their other folks who were responsible for some of the early breeding efforts and creation of the 'building block' strains? Of course there were, but they either ended up getting busted and spending long terms in prison or got out of the scene to lead mainstream lives. Because half a century has passed, a lot of the early pioneers are dead or have had no connection at all to the cannabis scene for a long time, leaving others to take all the credit.

The story of Skunk is a good example, it is pretty much a sure thin because I have heard the same story from multiple sources, that there was a bay area collective called Sacred Seeds, and they created Skunk, there were 6 key players and one was Mendocino Joe who moved up to Vancouver and became known as Romulan Joe. He was an outlaw biker type which was typical of these people, they lived on the fringes of society and documenting what they did and telling people about it wasn't on the agenda so it's easy for the truth of what happened to be lost, theirs was not a culture of open mouths. Sacred Seeds are said to have given out seeds to prospective members to grow as a test to see if they were worthy of membership, and one of the conditions of membership was that any seeds you made were shared around the collective.

Sam was involved with Sacred Seeds, he says that, others have also said it, but have claimed he wasn't one of the 6 key people who originally created Skunk, but a junior member of the collective. It is immaterial now anyway who did what exactly, what we do know is several of the key members of Sacred Seeds were bust and Sam had Skunk genetics from this group that he later worked with to create his Skunk #1.

So I think it's likely that Haze came from similar origins - that Sam got seeds from growers in Cali, whether from someone in Sacred Seeds or not, maybe what Sam started with to make Haze came from the BOEL Hawaiian Haze shipments, probably only Sam knows for sure.

Let's give Sam credit for what we know he did for sure - turn up in Amsterdam in 84/85 with a shitload of seeds of high quality genetics and the knowledge to grow and breed with them, he kickstarted the modern seed scene and for that he deserves a lot of kudos.

But I don't for one minute believe that all the seedlines he took to Holland were all his own work and that includes Haze. Of course, there was the best part of a decade between the original creation of Skunk, Haze, Cali Orange, Early Pearl and others on the west coast and Sam arriving in Holland, and he could have heavily worked those lines in that time, stabilising them, he has written about preserving Haze genes and he probably did the same with other strains in this time, so again, credit is due for that.

But I think Sam has omitted to tell where some of the genes he took to Holland came from, why I don't know, but Cali Orange is one example, it was bred by Jerry Biesler and the story is Sam bought seeds of it from Jerry's ex-wife which he then took with him to Holland.

The thing I like to take from all this controversy and speculation is the original situation that created the genes that became the building blocks of today's lines - the Bay Area communes. Sam and Neville and a handful of Dutch businessmen commercialised the genes from the west coast and Ed Rosenthal, Rob Clarke and High Times provided the marketing and a lot of money was made. But I think it is high time we reclaimed that Bay Area/West Coast spirit and formed breeding collectives of our own, and I know there are already many out there that do cooperate with others, but the commercialisation and huge profits to be made in the seed industry have drawn many to the dark side.

Instead of arguing the toss about the origins of skunk and haze,we should be getting together to find new and special P1 parentals to breed new hybrid cultivars of that quality.

indifferent you know mate im very relaxet for the most part but i see red when i see bull shit and when i deal with smart asses i tend to really find it hard to stay positive around them types of people as life is to short and in all honesty i dont cear to speek to ot1 even if i stood next to him id not waste my energy or would i with some in this post.

Why is it in your replie here you fail to add Neville who is the first to infact sell and offer seeds threw the mail and did he not open up the first seed store if im not mistaken in the dam ? and did he not collect breed and offer many genetics that are still in use today no suprise realy is it to not see him added.

Seams clear to me that you as a few in here have the i think and it was like this as i see it going on thats okay becouse i know like oil rises to the top of water so does bull shit in time.

Doc you are kiding your self if you think nevilles haze is not potent mate i have grown and smoked lots of sativas threw the decades and nevilles haze is up with the best of them would and stand next to the greats of old school sativas i am at times at a loss wen i read some things people post on the forums.

 

[DocLeaf]

Doc you are kiding your self if you think nevilles haze is not potent mate i have grown and smoked lots of sativas threw the decades and nevilles haze is up with the best of them would and stand next to the greats of old school sativas i am at times at a loss wen i read some things people post on the forums.

Perhaps we never tried a nice sample...

However,, opinion is based on substance and personal experience,, ,,, our gallery is full of top quality sativa genetics ,, like Hy-Pro Amnesia, Jack Herer,, SuperSilverHaze (and the F2) , Cheese x SSH,, more recently Congo x Nepal,, Gold Finger,, and Kentish Creme.

We wouldn't swap ANY of those genetics for Neville's Haze (no offense).. yo are a MNS fan/clan member,, as such you should be aware,, that all-round,, Super Silver Haze and even Jack Herer (100day specimen) diddle all over Nevile's Haze as far as sativa genetics flower,, any day of the week.. in any coffeeshop, baggie, or garden!

Peace n love

 

[DocLeaf]

Btw,, I's brethrens grew it here already,, it was ****ing **** !!!

Peace n love out

 

[yoss33]

I have a question about Neville's haze's high.
In NL x Haze, NL brings a happy stone. I feel up high and stoned in the same time. While NL really helps with yield and consistency and the end product is really enjoyable, it is far from the true sativa high. It is strong, but the ceiling is not hard to reach. Going up, I end lost in the stone, no true psychedelic experience.
Does the Neville's haze have this kind of stone, but maybe smaller?
I compare to Haze x Skunk where the Skunk makes the high more mellow, not so sharp. Again, the ceiling is reachable. But no stone in the high, only mellowness.

 

[SuperConductor]

it is far from the true sativa high.

True i found this with SSH and was dissappointed in this respect, grows and looks sativa but has a heavy stone. Good for production due to the faster finish and yield but not top quality sativa by a long shot, smokes like a 50/50 hybrid imo.

I've heard from a very knowledgable friend (as in he knows true sativas) that there are NH phenos which have the true psychedelic high you speak of but his cut comes from old stock, goes way over 100 days i believe. He doesn't keep stuff unless it's spectacular.

 

[Dalaihempy]

Perhaps we never tried a nice sample...

However,, opinion is based on substance and personal experience,, ,,, our gallery is full of top quality sativa genetics ,, like Hy-Pro Amnesia, Jack Herer,, SuperSilverHaze (and the F2) , Cheese x SSH,, more recently Congo x Nepal,, Gold Finger,, and Kentish Creme.

We wouldn't swap ANY of those genetics for Neville's Haze (no offense).. yo are a MNS fan/clan member,, as such you should be aware,, that all-round,, Super Silver Haze and even Jack Herer (100day specimen) diddle all over Nevile's Haze as far as sativa genetics flower,, any day of the week.. in any coffeeshop, baggie, or garden!

Peace n love

doc honestly mate yes im a fan of mr nice genetics and a friend of shantis no secret there so are many many growers around the world but i am also a fan of simons work as are many others if its good its good.

Why do you guys even wen i try and be super nice seam to scrap the bottom of the barrel its behond me.

I infact dont like super silver haze suprised ? It has to much of a stone going on for me to injoy i did tho like shit haze and afgani haze found some very intresting plants that suprised me and well no secret wen it comes to my vues on mangohaze love it and have since 2002 nevilles haze is a line you need to run select and respect with good selection it will suprise even the older growers.

I gave a good friends uncle some to try who was growing mostly culumbine sats and and few other lines one being erly JH this guy and his grow partner who is in his 70s smokes joints like cigarets one after the next when he tryed the nh he rolled a few at once and smoked the first by the time he finished it the high was comeing on he was suprised and did not lite no2 an hour late he was so imprest with the potency and quolity of the high he asked me for seeds 5 years later they are still growing it out in the bush and even useing it in breeding with faster lines.

I dont cear wat people grow there choice but to say nevilles haze is week pot is rong .

 

[indifferent]

Hempy, your Neville fanboy-ism is wearing pretty thin now. I am happy to give Neville full credit for what he did do, but he bullshitted so much and you seem to have swallowed it all!

Neville built his reputation on the back of the work of others, it would have been nice if he gave some credit instead of making up stupid stories like the G13 myth he started. Remember, when the work to create the genetics Neville profited from was done, Neville was a little kid, he didn't even have the idea to sell seeds until 1982 and Northern Lights, Haze, G13, Early Pearl, Hashplant and all the other genes he used had already been in existence for man years.

Before Sam arrived in Holland, Neville was selling seeds picked out of coffeeshop imports and a handful of low quality lines he either bought or bred, if you look at his 1984 catalogue there is nothing apart from Northern Lights that was good enough to last the test of time:

So in 1984, all Neville had was pretty poor, in fact, all they had in Holland then was pretty poor, then Sam turned up with a collection of great genes. Neville wasn't the first to run a seed bank either, that was Lowlands Seed/Weed Co, run by Wernard Bruining and this guy, Kees Hoekert:

Here's Old Ed in the late 70s holding a Lowlands poster, this is before Neville even got to Holland:

Here he is examining the first Skunk grown in Holland from Sam's seeds:

So Neville made a shitload of money selling seeds to the US. If we look at his 1987 catalogue, it's all genes he bought in from other people and some F1 hybrids he made from them:

Cali Orange was bred by Jerry Biesler, brought to Holland by Sam and sold to Neville who then made a load of money out of selling the seeds to the US. Who deserves the credit for the breeding work here? Jerry Biesler of course, Sam and Neville just took credit and profitted.

Early Girl was bred by someone else in Cali, I forget who now, Durban and Swazi are imports, not sure about Early Pearl, Neville might have made that one himself.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=12366&pictureid=246608[img]

Haze x Northern Lights, a simple F1 of two lines bought in and Ruderalis, a piece of crap picked from a Hungarian roadside, three pages in there is precous little evidence of Neville doing much breeding work.

[IMG]https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=12366&pictureid=246607

NL1 and Four and More (later Four-Way) two more lines Neville purchased frompeople in the US.

Two F1 hybrids using a NL1 male and two plants Neville claimed to have received as clone onlys, this is the extent of Neville's breeding at this point - F1 hybrids of other people's work.

Big Bud and Hashplant, two more lines that Neville bought in from the west coast of the US.

In 1984, Neville had nowt but shite, within 3 years all apart from Ruderalis and NL had disappeared to be replaced with genes either purchased from Sam or purchased from people on the west coast of the US, that is the bare facts, so let's give Neville credit for what he actually did do - track down and commercialise a load of great lines.

After 87, Neville did 3 years of solid breeding work before he got bust, it was in those years that he made the NL5 x Haze, Skunk x Haze, G14xHazeand Hashplant x Haze crosses that became the foundation for all the later Haze work.

So credit where credit is due, but hempy, FFS, please stop trying to build Neville up into something he wasn't!

 

[DocLeaf]

doc honestly mate yes im a fan of mr nice genetics and a friend of shantis no secret there so are many many growers around the world but i am also a fan of simons work as are many others if its good its good.

Nice truthful words

Dude,, the only barrels we scrape these days are for the resin that short sighted commercial growers missed out on.. lol

Personal opinion, Yes there are plenty better "Haze" varieties out there today.. we already named some already,,, but I's not into mud-slinging no more unless sprouts grow from it,, so peace n love out to this thread

Erb is plant!

 

[titoon29]

nice read all ! thanks for digging into the haze subject ! just keep it cool

I guess we won t know for sure until some dna comparison can be made between the different strains. I m looking forward to see people testing all those haze and make a genepool map ! There could be big surprises

Docleaf, it seems there is no good neville to be found in holland anymore (or maybe if you live there, you ll find it once a year), infact most neville sold there are ssh. i tried three different samples and those were dense buds with big calyxes, far from the fluffy buds of a 18/20 weeks Neville, and nowhere near that great high. anyway it would not be commercially viable to sell neville, it s a good genetic to start with to get a very sativa dominant plant, but it s not rewarding speaking of money. Connoisseur genetic imho ..

hempy i found that the theory haze could come from australia really fun, and i m sure it could be true.. it seems there were so much uplifting strong sativas there, and with all the aussies around (shanti, neville..) it could be... but who knows ?

Thanks again indiferrent, hempy, doc, for all those good info !

+++

 

[indifferent]

Joe Pietri reckons Neville's Haze was really something from Australia made up of Thai and Colombian genes but Joe doesn't really know, he's just guessing but he's adamant Neville never got real Haze beans.

Who cares, like Titoon says, we'll never know until someone dna maps em all!

 

[Raco]

You jump in like a polly trying to cover the truth every time roco you seam like a nice guy tho can i ask you roco is that secret site still up and running the invite only breeders group still active


Do you know when i first saw haze roco ? it was in 1979 december

Sorry but I don´t understand "polly"...what does that mean?

secret site??
What are you talking about?? I have no clue.

Haze in 1979? ....source???
NH doesn´t even compare to the african and colombian herbs I smoked in 1979

 

[Moppel]

nice info, and cool pics etc.

And guys , lets not fight. remember we're all on the same team.

 

[ojd]

these haze threads get real crazy

i just have a few cents to add

for doc
nevils haze weak
i guess you never had a proper nevils haze
nevils haze from greenhouse coffeshop is the strongest weed i have ever smoked
more trippy and devastating than most buble you will find in dam
have you ever grown any mr nice or pre franco haze

also indiferent also to you have you grown any haze from mr nice or pre franco greenhouse

so sam turned up to amsterdam with a bunch of new strains
so did sam create all these strains,i think not
so he did the same as nevil aquire very special seeds and distribute them
so why was there not all these haze crosses from sam
nevil has done the most and best work on haze to date
think of some of the things he has done
he has along side shanti created the best hazes available to man
the problem is nevil went into hiding along time ago and with that and shanti mving on to do mr nice in switzerland alot if not all of the original haze clones males and females have been lost or taken to switzerland or wherever shanit has moved on to

sam is still around holland so why is there no hazes that sam created or hybrids

if i was the guy who made or aquired haze and brought it to hollland i would of had 100'sof haze crosses by now,its been over 30 years

what was sam doing with this haze all the time he had it

ive seen the original haze x skunk 1 seeds that seedbay give out as freebies(i got 2-3 packs that i will crack 1 day)but to be honest they dont look nothing on ssh, nevils haze, and every other haze shanti and nevil brought out
i mean i cant imagine how many packs have been given out(probly 1000's or 10'000's
where are all the reports of the sams haze
ive seen some 2 max i think and they did look good but more pure haze than anything

i give mad respect to sam for bringing the haze to amsterdam and spreading it but thats where it ends with haze

i see sam as more a hash legend witht he work he does these days

nevil has put haze on the map thats for sure
def not the boel crew or hazebrothers if they even existed

if it wasnt for nevil, and others making hybrids and more importanly nevil and shanti creating ssh nevils haze mango haze and others and also supplying the buds to greenhouse coffeshop haze would be far less than it is

with greenhouse coffeshop they really put haze on the map
they were the only coffeshop selling the real quality hazes with everyother coffeshop laughing at the price and flower times
oh have the tables turned, now every coffeshop has at least 2 haze on the menu and guess what they are hazes nevil created
il be honest they are poorly grown and selected phenos of ssh nevils haze but if you were around when nevil was still supplying the coffeshops you would know all about the haze

i get quite pissed when i see these legends name pulled through the mud

nevil is a legend and will always be
i have grown alot of haze and smoked even more and the best hazes ive tried were from nevils haze he used
ssh
nevils haze
nl5 haze
sssdh

these are the best hazes ive ever tried and i thank sam for bringing the haze and nevil for creating these oustanding hazes

ive grown pure haze and let me tell you 90% plus will much prefer a hybrid of haze as there is alot of hay in the original haze
you really neeed to wadee through the not so perfect phenos and the flowrring times will be 16 plus weeks

im waiting for tom hill to drop some og haze and il be buying a few packs as im a serious haze connoisseur and dont care how long and how many pheno's i have to look through to find the 1 killer haze

final comments
there is no ther person who has done more for the haze community than nevil
given sam brought it to holland and spread it out but he has not done the work nevil has on hybrids and sellections from what ive seen and read and more importantly smoked first hand

let the flaming begin lol

also im no mns or nevil groupie i just give respect where it is deserved

peace

 

[indifferent]

nice info, and cool pics etc.

And guys , lets not fight. remember we're all on the same team.

Amen brother.

 

[ojd]

just to add the nevils i smoked from greenhouse coffeshop in amsterdam was over 10 years ago before franco strated working for arjan

never been the same or the ssh
the ssh i tried back then was in the top 3 i ever smoked and would pay some serious loot for either of these old ssh or nevils haze

peace

 

[a12]

well said ojd.

MNS haze rocks.

 

[happyhi]

MY APOLOGIES, I NEVER HEARD OF THE BROTHERHOOD OF LAGUNA REFERRED TO AS THE BOEL. I GREW UP IN SO CAL, ANYONE WHO GOT HIGH KNEW THE BROTHERHOOD.
THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HAZE.
I WISH I HAD NEVER SHARED THE STORY, YOU WOULD THINK THAT SOMEONE THAT ACTUALLY GREW THE SHIT, KNOWS ALL THE PLAYERS WOULD BE ABLE TO PUT THIS STORY TO REST. LITTLE DID I KNOW THAT THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE TRYING TO MONETIZE WHAT WE ALL JUST DID FOR THE LOVE OF IT.
I REPEAT. I GREW THE SHIT, IT DIED IN '81. THE HAZE BROS IS JUST AN INVENTION.
IT WAS AN ACCIDENT. THE NAME SIMPLY DESCRIBED CANNABIS WHICH AT THE TIME WE ALL CONSIDERED TO BE THE HOLY GRAIL. IT'S NOT! IT WAS GREAT SHIT, BUT SO IS TON'S OF OTHER STUFF BEING GROWN TODAY. WHEN I GOT BACK INTO GROWING MY OWN MEDS I WENT SEARCHING FOR THE HAZE. INITIALLY I WAS DISAPPOINTED BY MUCH OF THE HYDRO STUFF, BUT WITH THE HELP OF OTHERS I DISCOVERED THAT THE HAZE STILL LIVES IN MANY FORMS. I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE, BUT I WILL TRY AND STICK TO IT. I'M NOT GOING TO RESPOND ANYMORE CAUSE MOST OF YOU AREN'T INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH.
AS TO THE COMMENT ABOUT WORKING TOGETHER TO DEVELOP BETTER STRAINS, I LIKE SO MANY OTHERS ARE DOING THAT DAILY, AND TO ALL THOSE OUT THERE CHUCKING POLLEN, MANY BLESSINGS.
PEACE/HH

 

[l33t]

hi Raco,

Happy New Year to you and your beloved ones

NH doesn´t even compare to the african and colombian herbs I smoked in 1979

Well you're not the only smoker that can say that he had been smoking better stuff than what can be found/he can find today..

I for instance who grew up with landrace sativas , have smoked landraces that I found that I like more than NH..But everything is subjective when it comes to bud taste.. I guess this is why I 'll take your comment with a grain of nostalgy. Not that I don't believe what you say. On the contrary my personal belief that the best canna genetics never made the seed market as we know it..

We can all argue about those lost lines forever but..
What really matters to the growers is where they can get top quality genetics Today..

As for the whole Sam/Nev thing like I ve said many times I personally don't know and can't say what is true and what is fiction although I do have my own opinion on things..posting it here is not really necessary though and is irrelevant. I admire Sam for his wealth of knowledge and I also admire Nev for what he has done for the canna scene and growers on a worldwide scale. Same goes for Shanti and other big players.. Both Sam and Neville made profits from the Haze so both could have a reason to lie or mislead..Which side each of us believes is a personal decision as there has been no real back up proof posted that shows which is the real story of Haze..

PS.

I can't help but notice that "(I think)" in pacific's post..

It would be nice to hear a comment on the 3 quoted posts (pacific's & ot1's) in hempy's reply.. Do you perhaps doubt their authenticity ?...

 

[indifferent]

Sam did create some Haze hybrids such as South Indian Kerala x Haze (AKA Haze Mist), Skunk x Haze (AKA Fuma Con Diablos) etc.

I like SSH but most of the samples I see are too much towards the Skunk/NL side of the genes, for me, the best examples of a Haze hybrid I have smoked were the spicy Colombian pheno of old NL5 x Haze and the 15 week spicy colombian pheno of Neville's Haze. I don't care for the sweet Thai leaning side of the Haze from Neville/Shanti, I much prefer spicy tastes. I'm pretty sure the Haze A male was a spicy Colombian pheno and the Haze C was a sweeter, Thai leaning pheno, the hybrids I like most are the ones showing most Haze A influence, there's more of a red-eyed, narcotic edge to the high of the Haze A types, the Haze C types are clearer and racier in my experience.

I've smoked samples of OT1 Haze and they were spicy and Colombian leaning, the grower said all phenos were Colombian leaning from the pack he grew. What I'm most looking forward to trying this year is the pack of Tom Hill's Haze I found in my stash, Tom's is probably the most Colombian leaning of the pure Hazes available, although when I grew a couple of packs of Sam's Original Haze last year I has some pretty Colombian dom phenos. I think Sam's Haze leans more to the sweet Thai/Indian side of the genes and I think he said he preferred the clearer, sweeter Thai Hazes and elected more for those, which is why the purple phenos are pretty much gone from Sam's Haze, they were Colombian ones.

I think what we should do is acknowledge just what exactly Neville did that we know for sure as we will never know whether his Haze came from Sam, NYC or Australia.

Neville selected three Hazes - A, B and C, A and C were males and B was a female.

With these he made several hybrids to his best indica mother plants - NL5, G13, Hashplant, Skunk.

Of these, NL5xHaze was the best and the one he chose for further work. G13xHaze was a failure and only offered for one year in The Seedbank catalogue. Hashplant x Haze was also considered a failure and was unknown until Shanti handed out a few kilos of the seeds in Spain a few years ago.

In 1989 Neville grew 1000 NL5 x Haze A plants and from these selected plants that would become the parentals of a lot of the future Haze hybrids. One plant became the mother of SSH, another with a Mango smell/taste became the mother of Mango Haze.

Nev got bust but eventually ended up back in Holland working for Ben Drinkers as breeder for Sensi Seeds- he had sold The Seebank to Dronkers following his bust. While working for Sensi, Neville created more Haze hybrids from the genes he sold to Sensi, Silver Haze and Jack Herer come from this period.

After leaving Sensi Neville worked for Greenhouse Seeds in cooperation with Shantibaba and between them they created SSH, Neville's Haze, Mango haze etc, using genes from Neville's work in the late 80s such as NL5 x Haze and Haze x Skunk, at this time they still had all three original Hazes, A, B and C. B was used to make La Nina (Haze x White Widow).

Since 1999 Neville has been out of the scene and Shantibaba has continued to work with his genes.

So as far as Neville and Haze goes, that is what he contributed, that and a huge pile of controversy over the origins of the seeds he grew out to find Haze A, B and C. The quality of those three plants is not in question, they have been a huge part of the modern cannabis scene.

Interesting that the Haze hybrids Sam made that were sold by Flying Dutchmen and others never achieved anything like the popularity. I can't remember the last time I saw a grow of Fuma Con Diablos or Haze Mist!

One thing to note, the man who has tried hardest to attach his name to Haze in the last decade - Arjan Roskam, barely deserves mention, neither does his helper monkey Franco, they have created absolutely nothing worthy of being mentioned in a Haze thread, what further proof is needed of the total and utter lack of quality in their 'Haze' efforts than the fact they had to resort to buying batches of Mr Nice SSH to enter in the HTCC as GHS SSH and they had to self a cut of Mr Nice SSH to produce GHS femmed SSH because their own fake SSH was shit.

The reason G13 x Haze is still around is that Ed Rosenthal gave Soma an old 1989 pack of Neville's G13 x Haze seeds and Soma tried to germ them, he got one plant and it was a male, and lucky old Soma, out of a cross deemed a failure, he had hit the jackpot and found what was probably the only pheno worthy of breeding with - the Haze A dominant one! Since then it's been crossed to everything, which to me, just reinforces how good the original Haze A genes were as the G13Haze male is mostly Haze A genes and has been a big success ever since Soma found it.

I'm just telling it how it is, if that upsets anyone perhaps you need to look into your own soul for the answer why.

A lot of people have had a lot of success by hooking their name to the rising star of the Haze legend and made a lot of money, sadly most of them just added further layers of lies to an already clouded and mysterious history.

 

[happyhi]

OJD speaks sensibly, as i mentioned early in my haze story, the plant was never stable
and each year produced 4 main strains. Each year we would always have one plant that out shined all the rest, ( if only i knew how to clone a plant back then).
Sam was just a guy that lived near the guy who originally grew the haze, he moved to
holland and spread some of the seeds, the rest is history. And the history proves that
others took the seed and worked it and developed wonderful things which we should all be thankful for. There is NO seed that represents the ORIGINAL HAZE, they represent
variations on the theme and the better for it. Like OJD said, there is a lot of hay in that pure sativa and it takes lots of selection to come up with a keeper, which is what guys like ojd and others work hard to create. My hats off to all those that keep the flame alive
not to those that want to take credit for the hard work of others.
peace/hh
peace/hh