HL45.PPK.1.0 17lightsx2 Sealed with Co2

[catman]

If gpw is what your trying to maximize, nothing is better than plant donuts around a single bulb. However, plant count makes that virtually impossible for you, so what you are trying to do is keep up gpw while growing big plants, while keeping in mind that you are also trying to make efficient use of your floor space.

I can understand why XOX would be beneficial because some strains just want to lean toward the light. I bet that line pattern produces some serious buds and makes for an easy harvest, but there just can't be anyway lights blasting into each other is efficient.

XOXOX
XOXOX
XOXOX
XOXOX
XOXOX

If ya did that, I bet GPW would go down because those middle plants would have too much light or ya'd waste space distancing the plants from the bulbs and/or the theoretical benefit of a single light source is removed. 5 plants get twice the direct like than the other 10 so ya got 1/3 different than the rest. I guess 2/3 isn't too far from 3/4.

Stadiums tend to yield higher because of increased plant count on multiple levels. I think most growers just aren't able to make efficient use of stacked bulbs so I trust your observations. Anyway, I started growing micro style and I believe I've seen the benefits that come from having 3-4 sides of a plant light up. None the less, I've only really grown little donuts. Anyway, whatever ya do.. just make it so you can move them bulbs around easy so you can best adapt to how the plants are doing. Just my 2 cents and ramblin.. I'm enjoying the show, thanks.

 

[DHF]

I ran 10 x 10 rooms with 4 plants and 5 lights in an X pattern for almost a decade where each plant got lumens from 3 bulbs at all times , and as Krusty said it for many yrs the perfect setup fo 10-12 lb rooms consistently with the right hybrid monocropped....

When yas add more sq ftg and plants yas gotta adapt to the overlap of light and plants transpiring/sweating more for more environmental control as well as heatgain to be dealt with.....

I preach multiple smaller flip rooms for a reason cuz they`re easier to control plant and environment wise...but...

All must follow their own path to Nirvana....HL.....Respect for your OCD-ism....shows your dedication ta doin shit right and learnin from mistakes made.....

Peace...DHF.........

 

[disciple]

 

[high life 45]

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[ImaginaryFriend]

I could easily turn the 12x20 room into two rooms.

I have a number of biases, and a number of personal interests, and a number of other issues too.

I would very much like to see a PPK 4x5k Krusty style. 10x10, classic trees, put it to the test.

I think with the right strain, PPKs will show very well against any other fast system.

My thoughts on the GPW issue related to trees vs higher plant counts... In my thinking, it all comes down to the necessity of perfection in a tree grow. You have fewer numbers, so shitty clones play role in shitty harvests. If, for example, one of your four trees in a 10x10 stalls (RA, FGs, etc), that effects 25% of your harvest. If you have set light patterns, and your plants finish stretching before they fill the premium light zone... you loose out. I don't believe the 1GPW goal can't be achieved with the checkerboard pattern, in fact, I think it may well provide a much better environment for growth. But the grower has to be dialed to make it work. To fill the room and put maximum bud sites in the optimum light intensity.

You can push out a lot of veg material out of a 10x10 space. Stadium it up if you need the added room.

But I'm really behind you on monocropping a KB style lay out with MONSTERS in PPKs.

You'll have to know how deep you have to clean, how phototropic/geotropic your chosen strain is. You'll have to know how much stretch she has, so light can still hit most of her, without being too far away.

And I say you'll have a ten pound room on your hands easy within three runs.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Better yet, add a little HL45 style and hang four batwing 6oos between the plants over top!

 

[high life 45]

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[DHF]

IF.....always on top of things as the voice of reason , cuz it take`s a good 50/50 Sat/Ind hybrid to perform in a Krusty plant layout to use ALL the cubic ftg in the room top to bottom and side to side as said in my response to your pm HL.......and....

I always hedged my bets with other locations and rooms so as to not put all my eggs in 1 basket and guarantee returns without worrying about crop failure once I had the system/setup dialed.....but....

IF`s exactly right in that less plants means more dependence on each and every 1 of em finishing to pay the bills , so it`s to be observed and heeded as well HL.....cuz....after all....

I preach increased plant numbers ftw and have for many yrs , but plant constraints and legal scrips only allow so many plants in veg and flower so I feel yas HL.....anyways....

I still stand by smaller rooms that`re easier to dial environment with proper watts per sq ft , so whatever yas come up with I`m like IF.....

It`s just a matter of time before yas start pumpin out da dank in multiple lb increments ftw....

Peace....Freds...........

 

[high life 45]

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[DHF]

I `ve seen every setup Doubled`s ever ran online HL , and yes his numbers were deeply inflated but also his G-13 was a strain dependent monster and prolly closer to 5+ lbs in reality....and....

Heath and I both helped his nuthin ass waaaay back at HG before it shutdown when he came round with all his fancy contraptions and notions of how he was gonna set the growin world on it`s ear , sell his system to Hydro Whore Manufacturers once he had it tuned and documented , and retire a gozillion-aire .......

While the whole time we were BOTH tellin him ta K.I.S.S. without all the bells and whistles that ultimately came back to bite everyone in the ass with root rot issues that copied that fuckin MPB Albatross....but I digress....cuz....

He went into obscurity when all the crops started droppin like flies and never once have I seen a "MPB" on any shelves for sale , nor will we ever cuz it`s a flawed system...bet on it....

Even undercurrents are nip and tuck to make perform consistently run after run without hiccups and crop failure cuz.....

Fast Hydro is intermediate grower skill at best with multiple runs under yer belt to dial yer system/setup as you`re in the process of doin Bro , and not for everyone by any means....but...

I`m pullin for yas and it looks like yas got the proper attitude ta handle it so whatever yas need outta this old head I`m on board and happy ta help....

Peace....Freds..........

 

[Veg N Out]

DHF - I'm a soil grower and never done hydro, can you please explain to me the cultural difference in "Fast hydro" versus "Slow Hydro" ..I'm going to go out on a limb and assume slow hydro is like, a KBS where its just a top drip and a little air in the bottom with gravity recirculation? and fast hydro would be RDWC?? Why is RDWC prone to so much more problems than the "Slow hydro" ? Is it the amount of water you have to manage when it gets scaled up to a large scene ie., 50+ lights..?

 

[DHF]

DHF - I'm a soil grower and never done hydro, can you please explain to me the cultural difference in "Fast hydro" versus "Slow Hydro" ..I'm going to go out on a limb and assume slow hydro is like, a KBS where its just a top drip and a little air in the bottom with gravity recirculation? and fast hydro would be RDWC?? Why is RDWC prone to so much more problems than the "Slow hydro" ? Is it the amount of water you have to manage when it gets scaled up to a large scene ie., 50+ lights..?

Never made a differentiation since there is none I know of Veg....Fast hydro is just the way I`ve always described setups run with recirculating "chilled" nutrient solutions with added air to rootzones to maintain max O2 in the solutions as well as the rootzones for accelerated growth and yields if and once dialed without crop failure.....now....

Not sure what Delta9`s and HL`s PPK falls into category wise , but looks like they`ve got somethin there huh ?........

Just remember Veg......RDWC ain`t nicknamed "Recirculating Death Without Cause" cuz it`s easy peasy....

Fast Hydro can mean Fast death oh so quickly , so your choice for slower more consistent growth across the board with soil makes sense in my book , and coco supplies accelerated rootzone growth as close to hydro as I ever ran once dialed , and my first pick for growth and yield....but....

All setups need time to know the copy of rules for dialage...some more than others....

Peace...DHF.........

 

[high life 45]

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[DHF]

Texas Kid was runnin experiments and dialin undercurrent setups at the Farm looooong before Doubled`s ever sprang the news he was gonna take his setup to market with that mpb accident waitin ta happen setup of his HL....at least a yr and a half to my rememberance , and .....

He also said the Hydro Whore manufacturer he struck a deal with was givin him an upfront signin bonus of 450 K but yet no product ever evolved on the shelves and he disappeared leavin whole buncha good folks he bullshitted holdin the bag or rather dead plants........anyways...

That Met 52 sounds like a blessing from God and I`ll definitely spread the word at my invite only sites to get some solid trials goin , cuz in many many yrs very few products have come along that actually help growers specifically IME.....that said....

Proud yas got shit back under control Bro....Holler if I can help....

Peace....DHF.........

 

[disciple]

 

[DHF]

Guess you weren`t around during the Krusty wars Disciple , cuz the first documented fast hydro setup for big plants besides RDWC and AERO that nobody ran consistently cuz of crop death were the Klown`s on every weedsite there was back in the day that most all the other setups originated from as their own hybrid system over the yrs.......

Krusty buckets were SWC with only 1 1/2-2" deep with sunken rez`s to allow the fast feed and recirculating juice drainoff with major air to roots via thomas compressors and soaker hose woven in and out of netpots turned upside down as spacers for the plant container with the lava rocks to sit on....and...

I`ve been told by knowledgeable old head Canadian growers that his shit was actually invented /come up with by the Hell`s Angels and were nicked "Biker Buckets" several yrs before Krusty brought em online and called em his own....

He usedta call RDWC a "life support" system with death waitin round every corner if not completely dialed and monitored and he was right.....thus why....

Now there seems ta be a way to do away with all the bells and whistles and just explore and dial Delta`s PPK.....Me ?....

I`m full on coco with Blumats with increased plant numbers for simplicity of setup and results without any root rot potential and crop failure....but...

Many paths to Nirvana and the PPK`s lookin like a viable system once your heads wrapped around the concept to make it hoon and produce....

Good luck guys...Proud ta have some ground breakers and risk takers in our midst....Always makes for diverse knowledge to be gained and shared....

Respect....and....

Peace....DHF.........

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Hey HL, been buried under projects and lists that get longer every day.

Just tossing my 2 cents into the mix...

"Fast hydro" versus "Slow Hydro"

to me relates to the the amount of 'buffers' in the system. That is, when I talk about fast hydro, I'm almost always talking about Recirculating Deep Water Culture. But I would include NFT and SWT in the picture too, or any kind of constant running aqua culture. "Slower hydros" woud include ebb+flow trays, drippers, etc., wherein the there is some kind of relationship between the root zone media (clay rocks/rockwool/coco) and the root zone environment that is not dependent on the continual flow of the solution itself.

The less media, the more 'control' you can have over the root zone environment, and when run in an optimal manner, presents the plant with everything that it needs the moment it needs it. "Fast".

Fuck that up, and kills everything. "Fast".

I've run a variety of hydro systems, but after some bad luck with that toxic hose that was floating around, and loosing a RDWC run to something in the root zone, I was over extended and couldn't loose another crop.

I had resolved to go to coco DTW, and ended up building a PPK because I didn't have a really good plan for dealing with runoff.

PPKs perform closer to "Fast Hydro" in the way that they maintain root zone nute levels, but offer the buffering of both media (coco/turface/whatever the next guy uses) and the wick. These elements offer stability to the system (and a passive back up) and keep the root zone in a within better peramiters longer that other 'Fast Hydro' set ups.

There is still a lot to be discovered about the dynamics of the system. It is relatively uncharted territory. I believe that there are two distinct directions that will be developed... and largely misunderstood by the masses.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Oh...

There's a commercially available MPB grow over on the Farm (well the bases are custom injected plastic, and intended for sale. I thing the grow is proof of concept). In-defensible IP, but the kid who produced them really made something big, and I don't see it having enough market share to be threatened by Chinese knockoffs....

 

[disciple]

 

[Mr Celsius]

I've read very un-conclusive results from the Met 52 and its pricy as all hell. I just battled some root aphids, so we will see what I do in the future to prevent.

I think a double tag of Metarhizium anisopliae strain F52 and Beauveria bassiana may prevent them.

As far as root root (pythium) Actinovate (Streptomyces Lydicus WYEC) is the product you want to use.

Stops Lawn Diseases

• Brown Patch (Rhizoctonia)
• Dollarspot (Sclerotinia)
• Take-all Patch (Gaeumannomyces graminis)
• Pythium Blights

Prevents Root Diseases in Ornamentals & Vegetables

• Pythium
• Phytophthora
• Rhizoctonia
• Verticillium
• Fusarium
• Late Blight

Attacks Foliar Diseases

• Powdery Mildew
• Downy Mildew
• Grey Mold (Botrytis)
• Fire Blight (Erwinia)
• Leaf Spots and Rusts
• Black Spot (Diplocarpon rosae)

Imidacloprid (Merit 75/Bayer tree & shrub) is the only product I've found to annihilate root aphids and I've had them 4 times. Here's a comprehensive link about its dangers: http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/imidacloprid.pdf