Bigherb didn't ever imply that Nev did receive Haze from Sam. btw the MNS Haze definitelly has some Thai blood , you will be able to tell if you grow few of the MNS lines.Colina said:''I believe you're correct in that Nev's cuts he got from Sam are likely Mexican/Colombian (maybe S. Indian too, but I very much doubt Thai) early Haze hybrids,''
Sam has stated that he gave Neville only one clone, his "worst one", he has stated he never gave other/more haze clones to Nev..Now, in one of his posts in the past Sam had written that it was a male clone that he gave Nev. In a different post , he had posted it was a female clone..When I asked him which one was the real case (as the info I had quoted from his old posts was clearly self contradicting) , he replied he wasn't sure whether it was a female or a male clone..Funniest thing is Sam claims he is certain to still have that specific clone up to this day..,..yet he still doesn't know the sex , male or female...Colina said:prolly why Sam said he gave him his worst clones, teehee.
In other posts Sam has also stated that he gave pure Haze seeds to Neville. He has posted that , here on IC mag and before long time over CW as well:Sam_Skunkman said:''The reason I gave my worst Haze clone is because I did not trust Neville, and I was right. He begged and begged for a Haze clone promising never to sell it pure, and I gave him my worst clone because I wondered if he was telling me the truth, and yes I had bred the clone many times along with my other dozen haze clones and knew it was my worst from progeny trials. I had kept it around because it was from older Haze seeds, and I wanted to be sure it had no use. I still have it.''
From:http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1429876&postcount=96
Sam_Skunkman said:''I gave and showed Nevile his first Haze, it was in 1984 and it was seeds. I gave him a clone the next year, my worst Haze"
From:http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1429876&postcount=96
Now MNS/Neville have at least 3 pure Haze cuts (now only 2 from these 3 are alive today , one is a male , Haze'C', along the pure Haze female used in the LaNina strain).So where did these other pure haze clones come from ? It obviously wasn't from Sam, as Sam has mentioned he had given only one clone to Nev.Since Nev had more than one pure Haze clone they must have come from seeds..and depending whose story one believes, these seeds have either come from Sam's pure Haze stock that Neville received at some point, or from other stock Nev got from a different source.. Either way , Neville did work with pure Haze seeds to find/end up with his 3 pure Haze clones that he has used for breeding. So no matter where and when he got the seeds from, he did grow and worked with Haze seed , before he ended up with his very successful haze hybrids and that is an important part of the story for all to remember. That and that MNS has real Haze , Bros Haze haze genetics , even Sam has never posted anything about Neville's/Shanti's NH or SSH not having real HazeBros Haze blood.Sam_Skunkman over CW said:I was at the first High times Cannabis Cup and can assure you that Neville did not buy any Original Haze seeds.He had gotten them well before the event. And he did get a clone from me because he did not want to grow a few hundred Original Haze seeds to pick out a keeper.
Neville in his NL#5 Haze description in the 90s catalog of The Seed Bank says that his Haze comes from seeds from the last Haze crop grown in the US. From what Neville says in the same description, that the Haze was very popular in the '70s , it means that the last Haze crop couldn't have been grown in the 60s but later on..during the '70s or later..Sam_Skunkman said:"He did not even grow Cannabis or sell seeds in the 70's so you are just plain wrong."
From:http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1429876&postcount=96
Sam has also posted more self contradicting stuff over time regarding Nev and pure Haze genetics, apart from the sex of the clone he gave Nev. In one post he says that he first showed and gave Haze genetics to Neville in 1984 , but in different posts he says that Neville didn't get Haze from Sam until 1985. Plus the form of the genetics (seed/clone) seems to be different in the different posts Sam has made over time..Sam_Skunkman said:''Neville did not have any Haze seeds from 1969, I did but I never gave any to him ever for sure."
From: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1429876&postcount=96
And here is the post where Sam says he first gave Haze to Nev in 1985 , and it was seeds.:Sam_Skunkman said:"I gave and showed Nevile his first Haze, it was in 1984 and it was seeds. I gave him a clone the next year, my worst Haze, I gave him my worst because I did not trust him, he promised to only make new hybrids with the haze, and not with my varieties as the other parent. He broke his promise and I was glad I only gave him my worst haze, as he was soon making pure haze as well as all my other varieties, so much for a promise from Neville..."
"...The reason I gave my worst Haze clone is because I did not trust Neville, and I was right. He begged and begged for a Haze clone promising never to sell it pure, and I gave him my worst clone because I wondered if he was telling me the truth, and yes I had bred the clone many times along with my other dozen haze clones and knew it was my worst from progeny trials. I had kept it around because it was from older Haze seeds, and I wanted to be sure it had no use. I still have it."
From:http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1429876&postcount=96
Last but not least a third post from Sam , where he mentions he first gave Haze to Nev in 1984.. :Sam_Skunkman said:"Neville did not get Haze until 1985 I know because I gave it to him, and he got seeds."
From:http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1015845&postcount=67
..So which one was the real case, 1984 or 1985 ? In one post its 1984 and seeds with a clone given in 1985 as well.., ..and in the other post Sam says 1985 and its seeds...Sam_Skunkman said:"And was headman 420 in Santa Cruz in the early 1970's? Or in Holland in 1984 when I gave Neville the Original Haze? I don't remember him being there. But I was......'"
From:http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=290805&postcount=46
In reality SSH was never the same strain as the NLxHaze.. SSH is [SKxHaze]x[NLxHaze] , so different to NLxHaze.. If Sam posts his speculations as real facts this may be the case with Haze info.Sam_Skunkman said:"SSH was not available until the late 1980's, 1988 specifically. And it was just called Haze X NL not SSH yet."
From:http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1015845&postcount=67
Yes , but all..according to Sam only. No one else knows what happened (apart from the Haze Bros of course) about the Haze development..and personally I need more proof as its hard for me to take everything Sam posts to be real facts and accurate nowadays..I 'm sure you know whyRaco said:Sam said that all the South Indian and Thai crosses were towards the end of Haze production,and that some were 50% thai, most were not. So how can a haze from 1969 be half thai,a pure strain,according to Shanti ..''
Shanti starts off saying that NH is a result of Thai x Colombian.Shantibaba said:"NH is a result of a Thai(pure sativa) x Columbian(almost pure strain).These two sativas are from the late 60s to early 70's.In NL there was alot of experimenting done on various crosses reulting in 2 main lines of sativa -based mothers derived from the original mothers of these sativas. Basically the true mothers had a combination of nothern lights x Haze...crossed to a pure version of the Haze in male.This results in a 3/4 haze if you do your mathematics...which we call NH now"
From:http://www.icmag.com/ic/printthread.php?t=44056&pp=15&page=4
When I smoke my NH I get a strong rush , really fast too and get the flashing stars FX (btw the flashing stars effect was even more pronounced with my hazy SSH pheno than my NH. You could see the flashes very clearly for a long time after smoking with eyes wide open). Blood sugar is def lowered as well as my blood pressure lowers and within after a few tokes I get all sweaty esp very sweaty palms. Its quite tachycardic , right after a couple of puffs my heart really starts beating , I 've smoked it constantly for months without any other strain to smoke and still gives me all these effects every single time even after very heavy daily use (5-10g daily). Almost no ceiling to the high and very hard to build tolerance to.Sam_Skunkman said:"To me the best was Original Haze. Everytime I smoked the best Original Haze I would get a rush, flashing stars, and my blood sugar would lower, my blood presure would seem lower, and I would feel a bit sweaty. And I mean every time, even after smoking it for days, weeks, months."
from: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=782247&postcount=150
Sam has always claimed that the best pot he has smoked was the Haze Bros Haze. He never said that he still has haze as good HB haze up to this day..as the one he used to smoke in the old days.If you notice in his posts he says that O.Haze was the best , not is the best..(his reply was on which IS the strongest sativa.)Sam_Skunkman on what IS the strongest sativa said:"To me the best was Original Haze.Everytime I smoked the best Original Haze I would get a rush, flashing stars, and my blood sugar would lower, my blood presure would seem lower, and I would feel a bit sweaty. And I mean every time, even after smoking it for days, weeks, months.
I had a friend that used to smoke bongs of OHaze with me and he would smoke a bong and just fall over, passed out.Wish I still had that clone..."
From:http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=782247&postcount=150
Sam_Skunkman on 'what IS the strongest strain available' said:"Most potent Sativa clear and up, or just plain the most potent, like some of the Indicas that take your legs from under you?
Sativa-Original Haze circa 1970's
Indica- Afghani #1"
From:http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1506895&postcount=146
Sam_Skunkman on what IS the strongest sativa said:"Best homegrown was Original Haze from the 1970's Santa Cruz California.
Best import was unpressed, not on the stick, golden THAI, back in 1976 Santa Cruz California.
Both were pure Sativa's. The Haze was stronger."
From:http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=769147&postcount=79