Haze lighting question.....

[l33t]

hey DocLeaf

guess he is not into posting online, i can't blame him..with all the stupid flaming and trolling seen on the forums..afterall he as everybody else will be judged by the results from their work.

Not much else to say about his lines other than they 've been popular among so many growers world wide and have proven themselves over the years..Hell even most dutch seedbanks have worked and made lines with genetics from Nev & Shanti no one can dispute that. Btw although he is not breeding much at least with cannabis nowadays , he still does some work with plants so still in the game no matter what others want to believe . According to Shanti one of Nevs most recent creations is the very good MNS EarlyQueen x Haze strain, made few years ago.

Guess the man is still more interested in creating new great lines making them available to growers world wide..than arguing with people on virtual boards..and obviously prefers to let his seeds do the talking....
(unlike others that want to just repeat things over n over about great lost 'kingdoms'..)

..and good for us Nev's genetics seem to be speaking the growers' language pretty fluently too

 

[l33t]

Hi hempy

I know your opinion on lighting.


But can you tell me why the same NH clone gives more compact nugs with 100w/sqft compared to same clone with 50w/sqft ?
If what you say hazes hate strong light then come we get these results??

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flowers away from the lite even say 2 ft will be quiet airy yet a flower behind the ceramic fiting were the hps lamp sits in will fill out nice and tight and you cant tell me its not hot there it is infact but its dark no lite intencity.

As I had explained to you in the past what you are missing is that ambient heat and radiant heat are two different things.

It may feel hotter to you (to your hand ) under the ceramic fitting but the radiant heat levels there are lower that right under the lamp.Thats why you see more hard nugs there under the ceramic fitting.Not because there is less light.

Either way in the end of the day everyone has his opinion so lets just agree to disagree mate!

l33t

 

[Dalaihempy]

Hi hempy

I know your opinion on lighting.


But can you tell me why the same NH clone gives more compact nugs with 100w/sqft compared to same clone with 50w/sqft ?
If what you say hazes hate strong light then come we get these results??

--

L33 all i can say is what my own eyes and experence tells me and what did the plant yield cured first and secound run out of intrest mate.

As I had explained to you in the past what you are missing is that ambient heat and radiant heat are two different things.

It may feel hotter to you (to your hand ) under the ceramic fitting but the radiant heat levels there are lower that right under the lamp.Thats why you see more hard nugs there under the ceramic fitting.Not because there is less light.

Either way in the end of the day everyone has his opinion so lets just agree to disagree mate!

l33t

l33 trust me mate im not missing a thing i had a long talk about this topic with shanti face to face also and he also belives theres merit in the same thing.

Heat rises l33 and haveing a flower at say 2 ft under say a 600 hps is not going to be uncuftuble to your hand correct ?, So why is it then that a flower from the same plant growing say 4 ft away from the lite right at the top of the plant away from the lite spreed is soled and filled right out yet the one closer the to light getting more lite is not mate yet the flowers in the shade are.

I would love to hear you or doc explane to me why sativas grown out doors fill out from the top down yet indoor grown sativas fill from the botton up.

 

[l33t]

hiya hempy,
I was out of town just got back hence the late reply.I m sorry mate if you ran out of interest but I also talk from my own experience as well and I thought it would be nice to hear what you think about what I commented on the same NH cuts grown under 50w/sqft and 100w/sqft and the results we noticed. Btw final yields per plant alone, mean nothing to me really, cause if you veg a plant for a long time its only natural to get high yields from it.What matters to me as well as to many other indoor growers is total yields per watt per time unit (growing area can also be considered if one wishes).

l33 trust me mate im not missing a thing i had a long talk about this topic with shanti face to face also and he also belives theres merit in the same thing.
Heat rises l33

Well from what you say about heat rising again,you still seem to be missing the same thing I said earlier about 'radiant' heat.Heat is transfered with 3 ways with conduction, convection and radiation.''Heat rises'' ..well simply put..no..heat does not rise, it spreads/is transferred.Of course heat can/may rise though, specifically heat transfered by convection may rise(ie hot air can rise).But again not always.Examplefigure 9-2):http://books.google.com/books?id=nr...hOXFCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3..Now generally speaking hotter air/liquids rise, its because of density differences.. ..But 'radiant heat' does not rise.. Radiant heat is emitted towards all directions not just up. HIDs produce thermal energy that is transfered to the environment by convection and radiation. I hope you can understand that.Thats what I refer to when I said you're missing something mate, its was regarding different types of heat and different heat transfer mechanisms.

Now since I don't really know what exactly you discussed about with Shanti and what where your and his exact actual conclusions I can't comment on that yet.. If it was that plants seem to produce more compact buds a ''bit further'' away from the bulbs..I don't disagree, never did actually. But if you both believe that its the 'too much' light alone/itself causing the undesirable growth habits (foxtailing/re-veg style airy bud effect) and its not due to radiant heat or combination of the two then I simply disagree and I already explained why. My opinion is based on what I experienced, plus what logic and my knowledge of science tells me. I wanna know why outdoors with over 100w/sq ft of strong sunlight the plants do just fine while indoors plants can show undesirable growth esp if placed right under the bulb and too close to the bulb. Also want to know why I saw those results with the NH cuts,why others agree with me and what exactly is causing the differences indoors vs outdoors. ..and an answer like 'growing indoors vs outdoors is..just..different' is not a good enough answer for me really as it doesn't explain why.

Heat rises l33 and haveing a flower at say 2 ft under say a 600 hps is not going to be uncuftuble to your hand correct ?, So why is it then that a flower from the same plant growing say 4 ft away from the lite right at the top of the plant away from the lite spreed is soled and filled right out yet the one closer the to light getting more lite is not mate yet the flowers in the shade are.

Like I 've explained to you before the human hand is not a thermal radiation measuring instrument and one cannot correctly estimate radiant heat levels, infact with the hand we feel both heat transfered with convection and radiation.Not just radiation.For thermal radiation one needs special equipment to measure the levels accurately.

I would love to hear you or doc explane to me why sativas grown out doors fill out from the top down yet indoor grown sativas fill from the botton up.

I think i can explain why sativas indoors fill from the bottom up..
Before getting to my point I will need to say few things about the differences indoors vs outdoors.Btw lets compare potted plants, not outdoor plants straight in mother earth versus potted plants indoors cause root restriction may also play a role in the way the plants finish.Potted plants have different temps to their rootzone and that might be a factor as well so lets stick to potted plants indoors vs outdoors.As we know with light from HID's the longer the distance becomes from the source, the less the light intensity(much less actually).With natural direct sunlight this doesn't happen at all (well actually happens but almost not at all because the light source is very very far away from the earth). Outdoors the lower parts of the plant receive same light intensity as the upper plant parts. Indoors this is not the case and the light intensity loss is really great for every foot you go further away..when the distance doubles the intensity drops to approx at 1/4. Another difference with sunlight vs HID light is that with HID's, the shadows are bigger as the light source is more like a 'point source' and the rays of light are not as parallel as the direct sunlight's rays which are almost totally parallel.So no matter what..even irrespective of the great intensity loss (as distance from source increases), the lower parts of the plants grown under HIDs will always receive less light than if they were under the sun outdoors due to these bigger shadows.One more thing with outdoors is that skylight (the light coming from the big 'blue' sky-dome) is basically an additional huge light source.This skylight is even lighting the areas that don't receive direct light.This helps a lot the plants as their lower parts get very good light even if in the 'shade' (not receiving direct sunlight).Conclusion outdoor plants receive equally strong light at their top parts and at their lower parts, while indoor HID grown plants will always receive much less intense light at their lower parts.

Now I m writing all this cause as every indoor grower has noticed the lower branches in partial or full shade slow down their growth or even stop growing, its as if the plant decides to not bother investing in those branches as very little light available down there, and prefers to invest in better lit higher/top areas instead. This can easily be seen in stretchy poorly lit seedplants where if the lower branches don't receive enough light, these may never even start to really develop away from the main stem.So basically the plant stops or slows down its growth in poorly lit areas and starts to focus on better lit areas and thats where it redirects most/all of its new growth.This is just a survival mechanism reaction and since the plants' top parts are the ones to receive the most direct light thats where the new growth is redirected..But as every indoor grower also knows, if you gave enough light to those lower poorly lit branches they would grow big and wouldn't have slowed down or stopped growing at all, with adequate light these lower poorly lit parts would grow just as fast as the top parts.

So what happens with flowering sats indoors?..well the very same thing basically.As the plant grows and flowering progresses the plant says to itself 'it seems that the top buds seem to be receiving much better light(lets not forget the light intensity indoors is really greater in the upper vs lower parts compared to outdoors) while the lower parts are really poorly lit..lets just stop growing new calyxes there and focus on the tops by redirecting the new growth up there'. So around mid flowering or so when most stretch is over, the plant seems to re-evaluate the situation and decides where to continue to put most of its energy.To be more specific this 'decision' is not done in just one instant but is more like a constant process. Indoors the top part is where the light is and thats were the plant decides to keep shooting its new growth , afterall there it can use more available energy (light) and with more efficiently.Plants simply know if its worth it to keep investing in an area or not and can redirect the growth accordingly for their own benefit.Plants can identify the light intensity at different parts and they can compare the differences and 'make' decisions about where to invest more.
Now why buds/colas that are further away from the lights become more compact , well I explained that in my previous posts. It has to do with the less heat/lower radiant heat levels found down there.Thing is if you move em way too further away from the light source you start to lose yield as you have less photosynthetic activity due to less light.So although you may get more compact buds a bit further away from the light this doesn't necessarily mean that the plant will yield more compared to if grown a bit closer (even with the 'cost' of a little bit more airy buds).Of course each plant has its 'favorite spot' as well so in the end of the day its all strain dependent too and that should be taken into account.
..Valid or not..this is my best explanation , I 'd love to hear yours if you 'd like to share it..

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

Hi digitalhippy,

you 're the first person I 've seen say that SSH from mrnice is a crappy line.., you're sure you got the real deal? I 've read literally thousands of positive reports on this line since 2000/2001 when I first joined canna forums.Both from new growers and experienced growers/ respected members.

BTW it would be nice to see a pic from your SSH plants, so we can actually see what we are really talking about...

Haze plants can be difficult to grow if one doesn't have previous experience with such sativa lines and it can take a while till you got them fully dialed in..

I 've grown SSH from mrnice and found it to be a really great line (a great practical 50%haze hybrid), all plants were very good and all above average compared to all other strains I ve smoked/grown so far.

Btw I agree with you that hazes do like longer nights, I usually grow em with 11/13 or 10/14 throughout all flowering and get great results.

ohh yea, there straight ...seedbay...when i got 2 germ out of 18 shanti HIMSELF even sent me replacements....all the way from ******... only 1 germed into a boy
the strain is awsome i just had bad luck...

also dont take this as a slam on MRN in anyway he provided replacements...
i plan on trying this strain again.. its worth blowing more $$ on...

i have smoked some INSAINE ssh in my past and do want to enjoy that again.