Haskel pneumatic refrigerant pumps
- Thread starter Gray Wolf
- Start date
Whether it's pneumatic or electric motor driven about the same amount of energy is going to be required. A 6.5kW electric motor with a transmission provision so it doesn't lock up is a hefty hunk of steel and copper with a draw that'll still require a three phase source for optimum efficiency.
"Divide the number of horsepower by 0.001340483 to convert to watts. For example, 10 horsepower would be equal to 7,460 watts."
Read more : http://www.ehow.com/how_5943021_convert-hp-watts.html
The only problem there is the transfer/conversion.
You lose a lot of energy because your using a motor to first compress the air, not including the pretreatment of said air. That air is the used to do the work.
A direct drive system is more efficient, less points of conversion equals less energy lost along the way. Part of the reason you have bhp (brake horse power) and HP or thp(true horsepower).
^ The energy loss isn't hidden, its all there in the form of heat transferring to the surrounding air. You still need a massive electric motor, 150-200lbs...
Worth looking into, just be aware it's gonna be a monster!
Worth looking into, just be aware it's gonna be a monster!
The loss is actually quite significant.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_energy_storage
You could try integrating TEGs to capture heat from compression and a cold butane line to increase delta temp in an effort to increase efficiency though.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_energy_storage
You could try integrating TEGs to capture heat from compression and a cold butane line to increase delta temp in an effort to increase efficiency though.
None of which are willing to work with our industry. Most of these other potential options are just that, potential.....
Maybe once the federal government reschedules cannabis these other manufacture may step into the industry, but even then I doubt it.
In Oregon we are setting standards now, and I hope n pray we don't follow CO and WA by approving bullshit pumps like the cmep or the caresaver.
What I'm saying is Haskel is working with our industry, the pumps they offered are more than adequate for the job, as GW pointed out.......
Why argue the distant potential of an ideal pump when one already exist?
RegisPhilburn1
Member
Perm,
just to clarify it was a regular tr-21 that caught fire not the sparkprrof trs-21. Agreed that it is just a temporary fix, I'll be jumping on this Haskell train as soon as I get some more juice. F'n eweb taking forever.
just to clarify it was a regular tr-21 that caught fire not the sparkprrof trs-21. Agreed that it is just a temporary fix, I'll be jumping on this Haskell train as soon as I get some more juice. F'n eweb taking forever.
GratefulOne
Member
As time goes by we have no idea what technologies will emerge. We only really care if the end product is clean. How it gets there should be open to advances by anyone at any time.
What happens if in 5 years a new pump technology comes out that is much better than an air driven pumps? Do we want rules saying only air pumps can be used? The goal of the rules should be clean product- not the method to do it.
This has nothing to do with any company and whether they have stepped up or turned their back. It is about not killing innovation. The last thing we need is a rules board telling us the specifics of the equipment. They only need to set up a system that gets the dirty product out of stores.
I am not saying to allow a pump or method that creates a dirty product. I just don't want narrow rules made by boards who will not understand what they are really doing.
I am also not saying efforts like Haskel's should be ignored but that is a different topic from state rules. We need companies like Haskel and their efforts should be noticed and rewarded.
What happens if in 5 years a new pump technology comes out that is much better than an air driven pumps? Do we want rules saying only air pumps can be used? The goal of the rules should be clean product- not the method to do it.
This has nothing to do with any company and whether they have stepped up or turned their back. It is about not killing innovation. The last thing we need is a rules board telling us the specifics of the equipment. They only need to set up a system that gets the dirty product out of stores.
I am not saying to allow a pump or method that creates a dirty product. I just don't want narrow rules made by boards who will not understand what they are really doing.
I am also not saying efforts like Haskel's should be ignored but that is a different topic from state rules. We need companies like Haskel and their efforts should be noticed and rewarded.
While I don't particularly like their stance, I would still consider them a good option if not the best for large scale operations.
Obviously very large.
Agreed.
I noted that its awesome to have a company as helpful and willing to participate in our community as Haskel. While the pumps work fantastically, if we have the ear of the engineering department, why not see if we can't have that ideal pump designed for us, and with our input.
I think while a great option, it's not ideal due to power/cost restrictions.
What about cost of matinence and operation of all the ancillary equipment needed to operate a pneumatically driven pump.
Not arguing as much as conversating.
You don't need numbers to understand the amount of loss, as I tried to explain a very simple fundamental concept you need to get, the lost energy has to go somewhere, and in this case it's to ambient air, and if that air isn't blazing from your ten horse power air compressor, than it probably isn't a big deal, but by all means let's have Dave get an estimate of the horse power required for a direct electrical drive.
A brushless DC motor with solid state speed controller would be nice imo. The timing sensors could be used to stop the motor if a lock up occurs.
Feel free to touch the cylinder head(edit: or wherever the heat from a screw comp is found) compressing the air on a 10hp compressor lol.
Trust me, I understand the physics involved.
Now we are talking, make it tefc, nema 7, pressure regulators. let's rock!
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At only 4 scfm per hp for a screw compressor, it would require significantly less horsepower to run a recovery pump directly with its on electric motor.
I think you're painting the picture a bit grey for a pneumatic powered pump? That is all Haskel currently offers, as per Dave's previous posting.
I hope for everyones sake I'm wrong, but my 'guess the weight of the fat lady' to still be up in the 7-8hp or higher range. Maybe a little less with a really efficient high torque motor as I suggested above. That's a whopper of an electric motor.
I hope for everyones sake I'm wrong, but my 'guess the weight of the fat lady' to still be up in the 7-8hp or higher range. Maybe a little less with a really efficient high torque motor as I suggested above. That's a whopper of an electric motor.
While I don't particularly like their stance, I would still consider them a good option if not the best for large scale.
I think while a great option, it's not ideal due to power/cost restrictions.
What about cost of matinence and operation of all the ancillary equipment needed to operate a pneumatically driven pump.
Not arguing as much as conversating.
If we are talking about the stance of large corporate companies and their involvement in cannabis I think the scheduling of cannabis is just the first issue. Keep in mind many people still view cannabis as the Devils lettuce and big business is the reason it is illegal now
As far as cost restrictions no large operater bats an eye at a shiny new 7.5 AI or a 15k cascade....or the Ridiculously expensive dry scroll pumps....
Haskel 2700
Compressor 8k-10k
Power is no longer an issue, thcland is running his single phase and 60 amps
. It's just not trendy to run a haskel yet but it's about to be....
Got it......yours still running strong?
Don't know how gray that appears from your prospective brother Skyhighler, check out:
https://www.deq.state.ms.us/MDEQ.nsf/pdf/OPC_CompressedAirEnergySavingsProjects/$File/CompressedAirEnergySavingsProjects.pdf?OpenElement
It takes about one horsepower per 4 scfm, to compress the air, and it takes about 30 scfm to produce one hp.
Personally I don't think corken or blackmer are our enemies, they may avoid us out of fear more than anything, and I'd say that's the case for most companies, we all know money talks, but the feds still strike fear in the heart of many.
And if I can get 4x+ the pump for my money, and one that has lower matinence and operating cost, that's where my money will go. It just business.
I'd say power is an issue. Like I said above, if I can pump more for less, that will always be my choice. Its not only the problem of finding the spare amperage, or 3 phase, you have to figure in cost of operation. Those small percentages add up over time especially on the larger scales.
Dang dude, that sounds just bleak. ;-)
I'm not even going to do the numbers, if you can drive the Haskel with a couple of horse power electric motor, I'll run it by Across at the Cannabis Cup this weekend, that's where this is going isn't it? Haskel only does pneumatic drive, check out their company history and what asset is being bought out over and over, it's the pneumatic tech.
GratefulOne
Member
https://www.easycalculation.com/physics/classical-physics/hp-to-amps.php
You will want 40 A max on a 50 A circuit per NEC.
If you need more help please ask.
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