Guerilla Underground Thread

[~star~crash~]

The cocco adds no nutrition. Only helps to aerate and loosen the soil.

Cheers GG

thanks! that's what i need...aeration

The perlite will make its way to the top after a few good rains. It won't be doing anything for the soil at that point. It is also very noticeable on the ground and unusual looking. It could draw attention to the plot.

Adding gypsum to clay soil breaks the clay down and improves it over time. It also raises the soil ph just like lime does only better in clay soil.

If there are trees around or grasses take a rake and mix them in the soil.

what ratio's...what's the source?
i

 

[~star~crash~]

for gypsum?

 

[Gizmo]

i wish i could use gypsum instead of lime but its not available easily here, it needs to be ordered online and it takes times to arrives. i read gypsum is better than lime. anyway here is Tom Hill soil recipe if it can help you star crash

Quote from Tom Hill:
I've played with a lot of different soil recipes over the years, 1rst year new soil mixes, as well as yearly additives. Here's a very simple mix that is well proven and I am comfortable recommending for those large outdoor containers. It gives about 50 cubic feet or just over 300 gallons (dry U.S), and fills a 6ft diameter container to a depth of about 18inches - perfectly.

25 bags black gold potting soil (1.5cf ea)

4 bags stutzman farms chicken manure (1 cf ea)

1 bag perlite (4 cf ea)

1 bag (50 lbs) bonemeal (steamed, not precipitated)

1/2 bag gypsum (aprox 1/2 cf) - Edit -> 1/2 of a 40 lb bag (20lbs).

Mix well, water thoroughly, let rest for 2-3 weeks minimum, transplant, and stand back

Best Regards,

Tom

 

[VonBudí]

^

gypsum , try home brew shops, or specialty horticulture shop like golf/pitch shops.

topdress to cover the expose perlite/vermiculite



thinking of growing some root crops in the winter to break up clay soil, anyone tried?

 

[MountainBudz]

You guys talking about mixing perlite in clay soil to loosen the soil, it does kinda float to the top every time it gets really wet. But the main and most important thing about perlite, is don't believe that even a large bag is going to go far at all while actually being useful (if mixing in native soil), maybe even only one or 2 good sized holes is all one large bag will do. If you have the funds to spend on tons of it then by all means go for it or unless your not including native (clay soil). If your grow hole is mostly made up of soiless mix or a good potting soil and compost and not much clay then it most likely may be useful, but in that case you shouldn't even need it. I take it as if you guys are wanting to use it to improve the drainage and aerate (native clay soil exclusively) then unless your using a shit ton of perlite per hole it will not work. It just isn't enough in even bigger than small amounts to go far and do what you need it to do. Maybe over years it will, but your better off raking up twigs, dried up broken straw, sand, sticks, leaves, grass clippings, coco, and even lava rock than you are using perlite.

IF you end up using perlite at least get the really large chunky perlite like the kind size of gravels or the diameter of a dime. I have experience in trying perlite and have worked in clay soils for years. We have a lot of red clay here in eastern ky and if broken up, aerated right and amended correctly it will keep you from having to water all season long.

If I have confused you by making this post, please let me clear up any questions you have about it. Just don't wanna see you guys get disappointed or make an unneeded purchase that could be spent on other important things. Sometimes I don't explain things in the correct order to make much sense haha but I will do my best ya'll!

 

[~star~crash~]

^^^^^^you've convinced me not to use perlite ...i'm going native...digging big holes the best i can & we'll actually see what the dirt looks like

peace & thanks for the tips i'm going to be picking your brain...i picked up some deer repellant to experiment with, also been collecting my own urine to scatter around my veg plot at the site...also got some 70% concentrated NEEM and i plan to dunk ALL my young plants...lot of hauling water to the site as well,but it's all steady progress..

 

[iTarzan]

You can get gypsum at feed stores, True Value hardware and Ace hardware, WalMart, Lowes and many other places.

 

[MountainBudz]

^^^^^^you've convinced me not to use perlite ...i'm going native...digging big holes the best i can & we'll actually see what the dirt looks like

peace & thanks for the tips i'm going to be picking your brain...i picked up some deer repellant to experiment with, also been collecting my own urine to scatter around my veg plot at the site...also got some 70% concentrated NEEM and i plan to dunk ALL my young plants...lot of hauling water to the site as well,but it's all steady progress..

In container gardening perlite is very useful and I recommend using it heavily, especially indoor or in a controlled location where you know for SURE you will be able to water often. This is because perlite improves drainage and in containers you definitely need it. In the ground, of course drainage is important as well. But keep in mind this is guerilla growing and getting water to our crops can become almost impossible at times. You wanna focus on methods and things to lessen the trips you make and watering you have to do.

Clay soil is something that takes time to break down and change into a fine medium. Gypsum, lime, adding organic matters and mulching with green grass clippings or decomposing matter will work best. But unless you plan on removing all or the majority of clay from your holes then aerate it with the things I mentioned in my previous post. At the end of the year, after harvest, turn your dirt and remix the ground. Keep adding and mixing and over time you will have holes of gold!

Focus more on water retention. You do not wanna ware yourself out hauling water in 90 degree humid weather every other day and it does become fatiguing over time. Yes drainage is important but just dig your holes wide and deep and break everything up including big lumps of clay as fine as you can and gently repack the soil after amending. Your drainage should be perfectly fine, when plants get large and establish a large root system, don't worry they will suck up the water as fast as it falls on them. I have never once had an over watered outdoor plant in the ground in a guerilla grow no matter if it was planted in 100% native soil or completely new amended soil. I also remove and pick out large rocks as well. Sometimes I throw them aside or create a barrier around the plant with then to help encircle the rains, mulches, etc..

I sometimes add water polymers to my holes as well, order these in bulk bags from ebay or amazon and you will have enough to go a long long way. If the soil is heavily amended and has a lot of organic matter and soilless mix I always use crystals. If its mostly native dirt you dont really need them but in the case of native soil add the stuff I mentioned previously to your holes instead.

I have used deer repellent before, it seemed to work fine. But here we go again, another "possible" problem with deer repellent is it is most usually made up of blood and eggshell to deter the deer away. In return, the prescribed method comes with side effects of attracting raccoon, coyotes, skunks, bears, dogs, etc... Then you have a dug up plant or a plant broken into from the curious prowlers...

Best bet for deer or rabbits is chicken wire or a few pieces of bamboo or sticks and fishing line tied around the plant or perimeter of 4 strands tied at 4 inches, 10 inches, 15 inches, 20 inches for example. They bump or sniff into it and it spooks them off. Another useful method is also a case of irish spring (brand I use specifically) bar soap, take a knife and peel "shave" pieces around the plant and area. Also a good ole stink sweaty sock that has set in the sun for a while in a plastic bag, maybe even with some pee and terds in it works well too. Lmao... I know, right?

 

[MountainBudz]

You can get gypsum at feed stores, True Value hardware and Ace hardware, WalMart, Lowes and many other places.

Gypsum works well Tarzan but does take a little time to work down the clay. I say add gypsum and/or lime as well as aerate and amend with twigs, hay/straw, leaves and stuff as well at the same time. Perfect mix I say.

 

[~star~crash~]

thanks for all that info ...i can tell you are experienced

i've another question..what do you do about sexing your plants before planting??? this is what i'm looking at thus far all from seed...they been topped hard a week ago

i tried to do some pre-selection in terms of plant structure...obviously for my purposes i'm not wanting to plant males,but i can't hold them in small pots for much longer...any ideas,or strategy for getting those sex's to reveal themselves on the quick?? peace

 

[iTarzan]

Yes the gypsum takes time to break down the clay but the buffering the ph happens soon. I would cultivate the same holes year after year if they worked well and were never found. I usually avoided clay soil. However, you have to sail your ship in the waters you are in and some growers have nothing but clay soil.

I have spots I have used for 20 years or more.

 

[MountainBudz]

Honestly a lot is dependent on what type of clay soil you are working with. Red clay? Grey clay? Can you post a picture of the clay? Here in Ky it is well known we have the best natural soil and environment of the entire USA for growing marijuana. Our soil is mostly clay, but lots of good fertile top soil. Close to a foot down is where you hit the most clay and i'd rather have it than not. I have grown in both clay and non clay, some clay is very good. I'd rather have it and it cuts back on watering completely or mostly.

How old are your plants star?

 

[MountainBudz]

Also I prefer dolomite lime for a quick ph buffer. Always worked amazing for me and most commercial growers around here.

 

[~star~crash~]

those ones were sprouted around the 1st week of May

 

[~star~crash~]

Also I prefer dolomite lime for a quick ph buffer. Always worked amazing for me and most commercial growers around here.

one handful per hole??

 

[pipeline]

Yeah lime is just a buffer. About 1/4 cup which is a handful. Only needs a dusting on top.

Thanks for the info mountain buds. I totally agree except for adding fresh sticks, hay, or leaves to soil. Adding uncomposted plant material with a high carbon low nitrogen content will cause a reduction in plant available nitrogen due to microbe activity taking up and immobilizing nitrogen to decompose the material. Just add it on top. In the neighborhood my friend. Love that clay no need to water. Buffered ph. Clay soil is derived from limestone usually here and has a natural ability to buffer. I need to put down compost next spring. I suppose I could top dress with some! I bet the plants wouldn't complain! Yeah put all the uncomposted materials on top as mulch.

Got a little rain today. Whenever the girls adjust from topping, watch out, they're going to bush out fast!

Star-crashed, Not sure what to do about sexing this time of year. I'd just plant them all asap and sex them when its time. Presexing should take place earlier in the year like march april may I think. No experience with forcing. I do know that if the plant is healthy, old enough, and big enough, they will show early preflower signs in July. Is it a claw/ ball, or a tube with a hair? Study and observe carefully....

 

[MountainBudz]

Yeah lime is just a buffer. About 1/4 cup which is a handful. Only needs a dusting on top.

Thanks for the info mountain buds. I totally agree except for adding fresh sticks, hay, or leaves to soil. Adding uncomposted plant material with a high carbon low nitrogen content will cause a reduction in plant available nitrogen due to microbe activity taking up and immobilizing nitrogen to decompose the material. Just add it on top. In the neighborhood my friend. Love that clay no need to water. Buffered ph. Clay soil is derived from limestone usually here and has a natural ability to buffer. I need to put down compost next spring. I suppose I could top dress with some! I bet the plants wouldn't complain! Yeah put all the uncomposted materials on top as mulch.

Got a little rain today. Whenever the girls adjust from topping, watch out, they're going to bush out fast!

Star-crashed, Not sure what to do about sexing this time of year. I'd just plant them all asap and sex them when its time. Presexing should take place earlier in the year like march april may I think. No experience with forcing. I do know that if the plant is healthy, old enough, and big enough, they will show early preflower signs in July. Is it a claw/ ball, or a tube with a hair? Study and observe carefully....

Dolomite lime is a buffer but also provides a good healthy amount of magnesium and calcium as well for plant immunity and overall health. Yeah Star, about a handful per hole or a wee bit more. Really it depends on how large your holes are. I use those small bathroom cups you get at walmart or grocery store and use anywhere from 2 to 3 per hole.

Pipeline that is definitely good science and I am glad you made your point clear and drawn out. I was aware of the findings of adding fresh uncomposted material to the medium causes a reduction in nitrogen and really did not mean for him to add anything too green or fresh. Although, I will say in my own experience that I have added plenty of fresh uncomposted materials to my grow holes and have never once had an issue, never seen anything close to a nitrogen deficiency... I think this would mostly apply to adding a very large amount of the fresh materials instead of just enough to aerate the soil a bit. Remember Star you do not want to over aerate the soil at all, so too much uncomposted material that would "possibly" cause problems should not be an issue. Add some "Azos" to your holes if you wanna increase nitrogen uptake but be careful cause the shit works almost too well ...

As far as sexing your plants they are around 45 days old and should already be showing sex by now. I hardly ever see one go past 30 days without showing signs of sex. You don't really wanna "force" them at this time of year to show sex, your veg time is precious, try and not confuse it bro.

 

[MountainBudz]

I also want to make my point clear that I am not saying they should have started "flowering" by now. But with experience and some studying you should definitely be able to tell the sex by now by finding pre-flowers. If you need help let me know. Especially them being that old in those small containers, smaller the hole or container, the faster they show sex, the quicker they finish. You can get a normal 60-70 day outdoor strain to finish in 50-60 day or "up to a week early" by flowering plants in smaller containers especially. You are trading yield for a quicker finish though if you do so... I know your not doing this but just giving ya some knowledge bro!

 

[Gantz]

i asked a question in the wrong thread

 

[MountainBudz]

Try not to grow by the books, or science, but grow with the heart and your plants will bond with you and you will know exactly what they need and they will accept almost everything you do!