Getting ready for 1st Vertical grow
- Thread starter gr866
- Start date
Ok finished,
5 flushes, 1 gallon each flush, waited about 1 Margarita then checked the readings.
Rain water - 5.55 pH adjusted to 5.88 and with drip clean 49 ppm. Made 17 gallons
1st run
pH ppm
BC1 6.3 307
BC2 5.62 775 .
BC3 5.85 598
CK1 5.68 556
CK2 5.62 690
2nd run
pH ppm
BC1 6.51 169
BC2 6.31 296
BC3 6.35 235
CK1 6.27 241
CK2 6.08 300
3rd run
pH ppm
BC1 6.63 119
BC2 6.6 194
BC3 6.53 150
CK1 6.52 175
CK2 6.35 184
RO water, pH 6.48, ppm 7. Adjusted to 5.81
1st run
pH ppm
BC1 6.49 93
BC2 6.49 149
BC3 6.44 115
CK1 6.4 136
CK2 6.33 134
RO water, pH 6.48, ppm 7. Adjusted to 5.88 with 3 ml Cal/Mag per gallon
2nd run
pH ppm
BC1 6.44 165
BC2 6.46 222
BC3 6.41 173
CK1 6.4 217
CK2 6.3 208
Not really sure what this shows but the ppm's got lower but increased with the addition of Cal/Mag at the last run. The pH, has me baffled, not sure what that means, it seemed to increase after the first run then stay fairly constant after that, even though the water was pH each time to around 5.8 to 5.9.
I quit after the 2nd Margarita so now that I am done, it's shot's time.
Got a few pics will post tomorrow.
GR
5 flushes, 1 gallon each flush, waited about 1 Margarita then checked the readings.
Rain water - 5.55 pH adjusted to 5.88 and with drip clean 49 ppm. Made 17 gallons
1st run
pH ppm
BC1 6.3 307
BC2 5.62 775 .
BC3 5.85 598
CK1 5.68 556
CK2 5.62 690
2nd run
pH ppm
BC1 6.51 169
BC2 6.31 296
BC3 6.35 235
CK1 6.27 241
CK2 6.08 300
3rd run
pH ppm
BC1 6.63 119
BC2 6.6 194
BC3 6.53 150
CK1 6.52 175
CK2 6.35 184
RO water, pH 6.48, ppm 7. Adjusted to 5.81
1st run
pH ppm
BC1 6.49 93
BC2 6.49 149
BC3 6.44 115
CK1 6.4 136
CK2 6.33 134
RO water, pH 6.48, ppm 7. Adjusted to 5.88 with 3 ml Cal/Mag per gallon
2nd run
pH ppm
BC1 6.44 165
BC2 6.46 222
BC3 6.41 173
CK1 6.4 217
CK2 6.3 208
Not really sure what this shows but the ppm's got lower but increased with the addition of Cal/Mag at the last run. The pH, has me baffled, not sure what that means, it seemed to increase after the first run then stay fairly constant after that, even though the water was pH each time to around 5.8 to 5.9.
I quit after the 2nd Margarita so now that I am done, it's shot's time.
Got a few pics will post tomorrow.
GR
O
OG Tree Grower
I'm also a bit confused, but I am sure we are on the right track to get these babies back in good shape
So your runoff a couple days ago was 4.48? And now it's 6.4 on average?
Normally when runoff is 4.48 that indicates you are getting a build up of ferts( naturally acidic) in your soil and a proper flush will easily fix that. In my experince this happens with new soil or soil that is allowed to dry out way to much between watering or your room has crazy lo RH and the plant just burns through the water leaving the nutes behind
Now that your runoff is 6.4, I'm inclined to think that's just your rain water bringing the ph back to where it originally wants to be. Some water holds its ph and will drift back to 6.4 even after adjusting a few times, I know my well water for example needs to be adjusted 3-5 times over the course of 3 days before it will hold a stable ph of 5.8 and stay there, maybe your rain water is similar, do you collect it from a shingled roof? Maybe it's something on the shingles that are giving it a strong ph of 6.4 ?
Regular RO water is right around 7 for ph but it will easily change and hold the properties of whatever you put in it, or in this case whatever you pour it through, that's why I always test runoff with pure RO , it adapts to the soil quickly and gives you the most accurate reading possible.
A good test would be to adjust your rain water, wait 24 hours and see if it climbs back to 6.4 on its own, that will tell you lots. Then adjust from there
So your runoff a couple days ago was 4.48? And now it's 6.4 on average?
Normally when runoff is 4.48 that indicates you are getting a build up of ferts( naturally acidic) in your soil and a proper flush will easily fix that. In my experince this happens with new soil or soil that is allowed to dry out way to much between watering or your room has crazy lo RH and the plant just burns through the water leaving the nutes behind
Now that your runoff is 6.4, I'm inclined to think that's just your rain water bringing the ph back to where it originally wants to be. Some water holds its ph and will drift back to 6.4 even after adjusting a few times, I know my well water for example needs to be adjusted 3-5 times over the course of 3 days before it will hold a stable ph of 5.8 and stay there, maybe your rain water is similar, do you collect it from a shingled roof? Maybe it's something on the shingles that are giving it a strong ph of 6.4 ?
Regular RO water is right around 7 for ph but it will easily change and hold the properties of whatever you put in it, or in this case whatever you pour it through, that's why I always test runoff with pure RO , it adapts to the soil quickly and gives you the most accurate reading possible.
A good test would be to adjust your rain water, wait 24 hours and see if it climbs back to 6.4 on its own, that will tell you lots. Then adjust from there
O
OG Tree Grower
Also when I flush I dont use anything at all, just water. Then when you start fresh with feeding your actually starting fresh, no guess work, no bullshit
If it was me I would not change nutes and add More variables , those nutes got you this far and there nice plants. I don't think there is anything wrong with your nutrient line up or it woulda showed up long before this
If it was me I would not change nutes and add More variables , those nutes got you this far and there nice plants. I don't think there is anything wrong with your nutrient line up or it woulda showed up long before this
chronosync
Well-stoned member
Are you still in straight coco? I always set my medium back up with the new mix or back to current feed after a good flush. Now this is drain to waste hand watered I do, but I was taught you need to keep the cec of coco on a level, especially after flushing. Would this be different in a drip system running a res?
Ok, so I went to the Hydro store to get some Canna A&B.
Talking to my Hydro guy at the store yesterday and filled him in on what I have been doing, ppm's and pH. We talked about the Blumats and I showed him a few pics of the plants, BC1 in picticulary. When I got to the pic of BC1, I said and this is the bitch that is causing my grief. He began to laugh and said that he knew exactly what the problem is. He told me that before he opened the store that he had ran Blumats with coco and the same thing happened to him. Said he, like I, was trying to control the amount of water/nutes to the plants, and that he let them get to dry which sort of shut down the plant (lockout) and they were not able to access the available nutes from the low amount of water in the coco. It was good that I had done a heavy flush with the proper pH and nute range and that my nutes were fine and that I did not need to change them, told him that I had been around 550 ppm but had lowered it to 300 ppm while trying to correct the problem and he said that's fine but as they start to recover that I should start raising that number to between 4 and 500, then around week 7 increase that to close to 600 ppm if they are feeding heavy at that point. He suggested that since there is no runoff that I flush weekly to every 10 days, mainly to make sure they have the right moisture and to flush any excess nute buildup. Said at the rates I am running I should not have any buildup but did not hurt to flush. He assured me it will be ok, lol, felt like a kids in grade school being talked to by a teacher just assuring me.
So, we move on from here, got my first good night sleep last night in over a week. He had never ran a vertical grow but was damn interested in what I was doing, said I was probably sat back by a couple of weeks, I can live with that.
GR
Talking to my Hydro guy at the store yesterday and filled him in on what I have been doing, ppm's and pH. We talked about the Blumats and I showed him a few pics of the plants, BC1 in picticulary. When I got to the pic of BC1, I said and this is the bitch that is causing my grief. He began to laugh and said that he knew exactly what the problem is. He told me that before he opened the store that he had ran Blumats with coco and the same thing happened to him. Said he, like I, was trying to control the amount of water/nutes to the plants, and that he let them get to dry which sort of shut down the plant (lockout) and they were not able to access the available nutes from the low amount of water in the coco. It was good that I had done a heavy flush with the proper pH and nute range and that my nutes were fine and that I did not need to change them, told him that I had been around 550 ppm but had lowered it to 300 ppm while trying to correct the problem and he said that's fine but as they start to recover that I should start raising that number to between 4 and 500, then around week 7 increase that to close to 600 ppm if they are feeding heavy at that point. He suggested that since there is no runoff that I flush weekly to every 10 days, mainly to make sure they have the right moisture and to flush any excess nute buildup. Said at the rates I am running I should not have any buildup but did not hurt to flush. He assured me it will be ok, lol, felt like a kids in grade school being talked to by a teacher just assuring me.
So, we move on from here, got my first good night sleep last night in over a week. He had never ran a vertical grow but was damn interested in what I was doing, said I was probably sat back by a couple of weeks, I can live with that.
GR
O
OG Tree Grower
although I do agree with most of what he said for the love of God never trust a hydro store guy. They say the craziest shit , and all that info he gave you was posted here in this thread, just worded differently and from a few different people
The only part his is wrong about is your buildup issue. You got runoff of 1100 parts and ph of 4.48. Likely Caused by the blue mat not watering enough and or evenly through the coco , maybe grab one of those soil moisture meters with a big probe to make sure you get everything adjusted to the same moisture levels.
The only part his is wrong about is your buildup issue. You got runoff of 1100 parts and ph of 4.48. Likely Caused by the blue mat not watering enough and or evenly through the coco , maybe grab one of those soil moisture meters with a big probe to make sure you get everything adjusted to the same moisture levels.
I know what you mean by trust in hydro guys, when I started back growing again after way to many years I was at one of the stores in the city, explained to the guy how I was growing, he said this is what you need, gave me organic nutes for soil. Lost everything, I was growing hydro and the shit spoiled in the rez and got root rot.
This guy owns the shop, has always been a straight shooter and as I say i get great prices from him. When I was setting up this grow, I order everything from him, and when it all came in I paid the bill, but when I got home I checked the prices against Amazon, and two online grow outlets. Amazon had the best prices of the three i check on but my ticket from him was almost 40% cheaper than Amazon.
And if he wanted he could have sold me the Canna nutes but said I did not need to make a change. His prices to the two liter set was $25, compared to Amazon that is $34.30.
Anyway I like the guy and he will get all my business until he fucks up, LOL.
Good idea on the moisture meter.
I plucked a majority of the bigger clawed leaves and noticing that the sugar leaves coming off the buds are not curled, so that is a good thing. So not all is lost.
Thanks OGTG you have provided me with sound advice and I thank you.
GR
The plants overall look like shit, BC2 is not responding and a couple others are beginning to claw.
Had planned on making the change in nutes to Canna and today flushed with a 750 ppm mix. While starting the mix for the rez the ppm pin died, so waiting on new pin from Extech, warranty.
The numbers from the flush looked good, all around 500 ppm and 5.76 pH.
Just don't have a fking clue what is up, should have responded by now.
Just a few pics from the 2nd, note the other plant starting to show the claw.
GR
Had planned on making the change in nutes to Canna and today flushed with a 750 ppm mix. While starting the mix for the rez the ppm pin died, so waiting on new pin from Extech, warranty.
The numbers from the flush looked good, all around 500 ppm and 5.76 pH.
Just don't have a fking clue what is up, should have responded by now.
Just a few pics from the 2nd, note the other plant starting to show the claw.
GR
Day 30 of 12/12
Ok, made the switch last night, GH Micro/Bloom to Canna nutes, since at 4th week added Liquid KoolBloom, Canna.zym, SM90, Epsom and Drip Clean. 650 ppm and 5.81 pH
Checked the rez this morning, 635 ppm and 6.05 pH, adjust it to 5.87. Had some runoff in one of my trays, remove it and checked the numbers, not bad at all, 497 ppm and 5.91 pH.
Much better numbers than what has been showing.
Before adding mix to the rez this evening will check the numbers again. Have 6+ gallons from last nights mix, I will adjust as need prior to adding to the rez. They are drinking about 1.5 gallons a day not.
The claw is still prominent but the buds are building and doing ok, not great, just ok. Will get some pics soon. Figure the damage has been done and all I can do is just ride out the rest of the grow. Still unsure of the cause, N toxicity, heat from the lamps, or just my fuckup.
Have yet to find any info on Blumats/Canna coco/Canna nute and the ppm's to use in the rez. Found post saying 400 ppm in the rez, tried that and ended up with this problem. Going to stick with this new rate, see how it performs so will have some idea for the next grow.
I will be using one strain on this next vert grow, any suggestions for a 5 plant grow, in a 4x4x7.
GR
ps. My pH meter is slowly dying, getting reading, just that the screen is failing. Again any suggestions?
Few pics from today.
Should I be tucking or pulling fans leaves?
Ok, made the switch last night, GH Micro/Bloom to Canna nutes, since at 4th week added Liquid KoolBloom, Canna.zym, SM90, Epsom and Drip Clean. 650 ppm and 5.81 pH
Checked the rez this morning, 635 ppm and 6.05 pH, adjust it to 5.87. Had some runoff in one of my trays, remove it and checked the numbers, not bad at all, 497 ppm and 5.91 pH.
Much better numbers than what has been showing.
Before adding mix to the rez this evening will check the numbers again. Have 6+ gallons from last nights mix, I will adjust as need prior to adding to the rez. They are drinking about 1.5 gallons a day not.
The claw is still prominent but the buds are building and doing ok, not great, just ok. Will get some pics soon. Figure the damage has been done and all I can do is just ride out the rest of the grow. Still unsure of the cause, N toxicity, heat from the lamps, or just my fuckup.
Have yet to find any info on Blumats/Canna coco/Canna nute and the ppm's to use in the rez. Found post saying 400 ppm in the rez, tried that and ended up with this problem. Going to stick with this new rate, see how it performs so will have some idea for the next grow.
I will be using one strain on this next vert grow, any suggestions for a 5 plant grow, in a 4x4x7.
GR
ps. My pH meter is slowly dying, getting reading, just that the screen is failing. Again any suggestions?
Few pics from today.
Should I be tucking or pulling fans leaves?
Last edited:
Mr. Miyagi
Member
oh wow....I had a looong message.... sorry..
Mr. Miyagi
Member
quick recap of my accidentally deleted post..
change batteries in ph pen.
400 ppm in res is absurdly low...
run-off ph isn't necessarily accurate for measuring medium ph... considering it would be a mix of the ph your putting INTO the medium to get the run-off to begin with.
lastly... I'd try to figure what your problem is first before adding more nutes to your medium...possibly knocking more shit outta whack.
IMO good choice going to Canna though... I like Canna
the claw looks to be from N toxicity.
change batteries in ph pen.
400 ppm in res is absurdly low...
run-off ph isn't necessarily accurate for measuring medium ph... considering it would be a mix of the ph your putting INTO the medium to get the run-off to begin with.
lastly... I'd try to figure what your problem is first before adding more nutes to your medium...possibly knocking more shit outta whack.
IMO good choice going to Canna though... I like Canna
the claw looks to be from N toxicity.
Thanks man,
I did change the batteries, did not help.
And yes from doing Hempys for a number of season I know not to think anything of runoff, but was suggested I check it.
I am fairly sure it was N toxicity due to my error of letting the medium get to dry. I have wanted to go with Canna nutes from the biginning but I had almost a gallon each of Micro/Bloom from my Hempy grows. I also think that although my rain water was 2 ppm and 5.5 on average, it did come off a composite roof, and I believe there was some contamination, it had a yellow/orange tint. So I have eliminated it completely from the mix and using just RO water, got to get me a RO machine as filling 3 gallon containers at the water stop sucks.
I know what damage has been done cannot be repaired but am seeing nice bud development, not what it could have been, I don't think, but better than I expected.
Good advice bud!
Thanks
GR
Mr. Miyagi
Member
Oooh... you're asking for more trouble using RO with Canna.... Canna is specifically designed for use with tap water brother....
I've gotten GREAT results using tap water and Canna A+B nothing else, my shit got better with the use of drip clean....
This run I've got just A+B (since I'm coming outta retirement) I just ordered Drip Clean..should be here soon..and I may be using the other supplements after this initial harvest...maybe sooner not sure yet. I think I may be trying out Emerald Harvest soon enough as well. I may try a side-by-side...we'll see.
Glad to hear about the improvement.
I've gotten GREAT results using tap water and Canna A+B nothing else, my shit got better with the use of drip clean....
This run I've got just A+B (since I'm coming outta retirement) I just ordered Drip Clean..should be here soon..and I may be using the other supplements after this initial harvest...maybe sooner not sure yet. I think I may be trying out Emerald Harvest soon enough as well. I may try a side-by-side...we'll see.
Glad to hear about the improvement.
Wow not a good thing to hear, the pH of my tap water is 7.75 + and the ppm is almost 900. The state limits on tap water are 1000 ppm.
I have to use RO, what can be added to it other than just pH'ing it. Add RO to the tap to get the tap to around 250 of so.
Mr. Miyagi
Member
FUCK!! Your city TDS is ridiculous!!
Maybe RO IS the wat to go in your case then lol!
Seriously though, check out Canna's site.. they have guidelines and schedules and mix ratios/whatnot on their site...if all else fails, email them.
If using RO water though, you will need to supplement the elements you're removing that is already present in tap...like Calcium, Mg, <<< (especially) and many other micro nutes... something like Fox Farms Big Bloom will help with alot of the micro nutes, as will Bio Boost from Canna I believe. But you will DEF need some kinda Cal/Mg supplement, no question about that
edit: adding the RO to the tap SOUNDS good... but the question is: what the fuck is in your tap that has the TDS count so high? If you're planning to go the mixing RO/Tap route, I'd STRONGLY suggest get your city water tested...
Where about do you live? Hope you're not in Flint...lol (sorry, bad joke, I feel so sorry for all those people...esp while the governor still runs free!)
Last edited:
chronosync
Well-stoned member
Cutting your tap with RO is a good idea to finish the run. That's what I would do, cut it to 100ppm and hope for the best. Do you have anything in veg you can test mixes on? Its kind of hard to trouble shoot a new mix with plants in bloom, I know, I'm doing it...
So cutting the ro with tap to 100 ppm, that would be my starting point, then add the nutes? Do I count the 100 ppm to the final number, ex. Want to run around 500 ppm, if that is not to low and number. Would i still need to add Cal/Mag, then work with Canna A&B to get my final number. I would still add Cannazym, SM90 and drip clean.
Can I just add CAl/Mag to my RO water to put back the those nutes?
I am going to plant a test batch of seeds, have some older seeds from a amature breeder from NorCal. Grew some of his stuff a few yrs ago, was Cotton Candy female x Blackberry/Grape Ape cross male. It is the second best I have grow, stone wise.
Going to order some seeds this coming week for my winter/spring grow. Not sure what yet, still want to run a Coco/Blumats/vertical.
GR
From Mr. Miyagi
"adding the RO to the tap SOUNDS good... but the question is: what the fuck is in your tap that has the TDS count so high? If you're planning to go the mixing RO/Tap route, I'd STRONGLY suggest get your city water tested..."
I sat down with the head of the water dept and he gave me a report, does not have any numbers to does mention some of the shit in the water. Nothing to raise a red flag over. Can't afford to have it privately tested.
chronosync
Well-stoned member
I wish I had better advice but I don't have much experience outside my own current situation, if you have cal mag then I would look at the levels canna base offers, if it is less than %5ca %1mg then use only RO, add Ca/mg to at least 100ppm and factor that IN to your total ec/ppm
1.0-1.2ec does seem to be the sweet spot in multi feed, or when running different cuts.
I'd say cut the tap all together and provide Ca and Mg yourself but its possible that some plants will want more then the rest. Good luck
1.0-1.2ec does seem to be the sweet spot in multi feed, or when running different cuts.
I'd say cut the tap all together and provide Ca and Mg yourself but its possible that some plants will want more then the rest. Good luck
Latest posts
-
-
-
Tutorial CanG | Regeln für Grower und Konsumenten in Deutschland
- Latest: strain_hunter
-
-
Latest posts
-
-
-
Tutorial CanG | Regeln für Grower und Konsumenten in Deutschland
- Latest: strain_hunter
-
-
