Escalation.
U.N. okays military action on Libya
Oil futures top $103 after U.N. vote on Libya MarketWatch
U.N. okays military action on Libya
Oil futures top $103 after U.N. vote on Libya MarketWatch
Gas is gonna go through the roof.....
- Thread starter BrainSellz
- Start date
M
Mountain
Just saw that...
some major shit indeed, wow! this sounds like how the Korean war started, with approval of military action by the UN
now i'm not prone to the religious interpretations, but i have to admit there have been some really major events in the last 2 years
Oh great, just what the world needs, more military action, that'll fix things for sure.
Entangling treaties and obligations always lead to war. That's why true conservatives are non-interventionist.
This is going to be mess IMO.
This is going to be mess IMO.
I would say it's not the treaties or obligations that lead to war but the failure to live up to them as intended.
We will agree to disagree. If throughout the course of history we continually fail "to live up to them as intended" and we constantly find ourselves in a perpetual state of war then I think the logical conclusion is that entangling military treaties (ie UN and NATO) will always drag you into war.
This is the classic debate between realist and idealist. Idealist believe that if the state actors had just acted a little differently entangling war could have been avoided. In other words, there is always some excuse. Realist state that history has proven time and time again that it is the treaty system that brings us into war. No military entangling treaties = no entangling war.
If we keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, what does that make us?
This is the classic debate between realist and idealist. Idealist believe that if the state actors had just acted a little differently entangling war could have been avoided. In other words, there is always some excuse. Realist state that history has proven time and time again that it is the treaty system that brings us into war. No military entangling treaties = no entangling war.
If we keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, what does that make us?
Yemen in state of emergency after protest massacre Reuters
I'm going to guess the Arab street will emboldened by UN intervention in Libya. The will to win is everything in war. This gives them hope and something to fight for. Strengthens resolve.
To war we go.
Driving season is almost open us too. Might see $4/gal before long.
I'm going to guess the Arab street will emboldened by UN intervention in Libya. The will to win is everything in war. This gives them hope and something to fight for. Strengthens resolve.
To war we go.
Driving season is almost open us too. Might see $4/gal before long.
M
Mountain
If they are emboldened they may be creating false hopes for help in their particular situation.
I saw a Fox News Poll that stated 65% of Americans were against military action. Congress has not authorized any of this. This illegal. Again. Willy Nilly off to war in a very, very unstable region with no real exit strategy or plan. Maybe pull some drones out of Pakistan. They are pretty busy though. That's more like a mini-war. It's ok this time though. Obummer has the Nobel Peace Prize.
Oh, faux pas.
Oh, faux pas.
You misunderstand my point, I'm not saying "If the state actors had acted a little differently..." I'm saying a treaties and ceasefire's in and of themselves are good instruments or tools and like any tool it's only as good or bad as the person using it. In other words the fault lies not in the treaties but in man.
No. You misunderstand what I'm saying. I agree that the fault lies in man and not the treaties, but that's also my point. Man will always be at fault thus we must avoid situations where we know we fail.
Trade treaties and so forth are great. There are a lot of countries that are not involved in the UN security council or NATO and do fine. Alliances that involved military obligations will always always always end up in war. You can't beat history. Man is doomed to repeat it.
Entangling alliances played a big part in WWI. They are the fuel to the fire when it comes to conflict escalation.
the domino effect
Why stop at WWI, pretty much every military conflict we've been in snce then also had alot to do with our alliances. You can have alliances without treaties though so really it's our alliances that cause the problems and not the treaties. The only solution then would be to isolate ourselves but that's never going to happen. Just like certain companies are "too big to fail" because of their impact on our economy, so too is America "too big to fail" for the impact it would have on the world economy. The real danger though is very soon once things stabilize a bit more in those countries, China and India will make the US obsolete to the world economy. Then we will probably be able to isolate ourselves all we want.
I also don't buy the arguement that man is doomed to repeat history. Granted his track record isn't the greatest to date but as long as it's possible to make choices that are different from what history shows, then there is always hope. A glass half full view, if you will, rather then half empty.
You really buy into that "too big too fail" stuff? That's just an excuse to scare people into accepting overt fascism if you ask me. To have even the far left (not just you) advocating for corporate welfare is quite the accomplishment on the part of the establishment. There is nothing "too big to fail." If it is then it needs to fail and be redesigned.
We were isolationist before WWI and did just fine. We did great actually.
We were isolationist before WWI and did just fine. We did great actually.
Last edited:
Ya, FannieMae, AIG, etc deserved to go under for what they did.
I will say isolationism sounds nice but is unrealistic these days. Look at WW2, Germany (Hitler) almost took over the world had the US not intervened.
Slobama makes me sick, where's all that change we can believe in ? All i see is the status quo. Guy spent more of our hard earned tax dollars than any other president I believe.
I hope the American people start to riot in the streets and get showered with gifts from the government like in Saudi Arabia, hopefully legalization of mj/hemp will be one of em !!
this is interesting in this discussion/context - very interesting
one thing we forget, we made up our own propaganda, and we forget that we did, and we accept it as fact
it was very easy to paint Hitler as the evilest leader ever, but he was just one of many unpleasant people in history(he did have much more modern technology though)
Hitler's primary objective was to carve out a larger German empire from USSR territory
he really wasn't all that interested in world conquest
case in point, he did not persist in his attack on the United Kingdom
if he could have conquered England by air, he would of, but was more of an opportunistic decision
Hitler probably would not have attacked France/UK at all if he had been allowed to do what he wanted in the east
there is a lot of information on the internal discussions that occurred in the German hierarchy on this subject, very good reading
that's not to say what he might have done after his eastern conquests, no one can say for sure
The American Banking empire helped fund Hitler's rise to power too.
Prescott D Bush's served on the board of an American bank whose assets where seized under the Sedition Act for helping fund Hitler. Yes, that is grandpa Bush who after WWII helped turn the OSS into the CIA.
Prescott D Bush's served on the board of an American bank whose assets where seized under the Sedition Act for helping fund Hitler. Yes, that is grandpa Bush who after WWII helped turn the OSS into the CIA.
people must have forgotten the industrial revolution...
ww1 and 2 were created by bankers and industrialist to create huge win-fall profit by being on both sides of the war...
just about every war has been egged on and exagerrated in america to pull the heartstrings so we can go in and make the elite richer...
