Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[RetroGrow]

One week ago I gave my plants Bayer complete insect control @ 15mL per gallon. Each 7 gallon pot received approx. 1/3 gallon of solution. I put up a new sticky trap upon applying the imid and it has collected 2-4 little bugs per day since application. My partner believes that the life cycle of the adult bugs is long and that we should not be concerned, but I think otherwise. If imid is systemic then shouldn't it kill all bugs that feed on the plant? I believe that the complete insect killer also has a contact killing poison which should further eradicate them.

Ideally, the plants would be flipped into flower in 4-5 days. I don't believe that it would be worth it to flower if they are still infected, and if there are still fliers, then I think they are still infected. Should I apply some azamax and hope to disrupt the cycle to carry me through flower? Should I apply a follow up application of bayer complete insect control? Has anybody tried SM-90?

If plants are drinking (this is critical, because sometimes, a bad RA infestation causes plants to stop drinking) one application of Imid is sufficient. It's systemic, so once the plants drink it, the plant becomes toxic to the insects, and they will all be killed. It may take a week to notice that everything is dead. I would drench the pots completely preferably when they are dry. If medium is already soaked, plants will not absorb any more. Mine were all killed with a single application (complete drenching to runoff) on plants that were drinking. It sounds to me like one third gallon doesn't seem like enough to get run-off in a 7 gallon pot.

 

[ShroomDr]

I soaked 4 plants thoroughly, then i added 5mL Bayer Complete to 3Gal of liquid and ran it though the (already hydrated) coco. This is a recirculating reservoir system.

I dont see any crawlers 24 hours later, and im ready to add 1.5-2mL/Gal to the rest of recirculating reservoirs.

 

[somebody041]

reckon - thank you! I've been trying to find more information about their life cycle and I am very grateful you could help me out. You are right, I definitely don't want to smoke imid, hence my concern

retrogrow - the plants are drinking and overall looking very healthy, especially since the application of imid. I watered the imid when the plants were due up for a watering. Though there was no runoff, but the pots were heavy after the watering. I may do a more complete soil drench with a lesser application rate. Thanks for comforting me that it takes some time to see the aftermath of the imid.

 

[Rabbits]

Imidacloprid

Vast amounts of this chemical is used all around the world.
It is used on tobacco close to harvest and it is also used on many food crops.
So, untold thousands of people are smoking it and eating it in varying concentrations.

Now, everyone who uses products containing Imidacloprid carefully follows the directions don't they. Well, don't they?
When I worked in the chemical industry (marine coatings) our response to our customers who encountered problems was 'when all else fails please read the instructions.'

Keeping all this in mind you would have to think Imidacloprid is fairly safe for mammals.
If it isn't safe does anyone have any idea what Imid would do to a human being?

 

[blahman]

Imidacloprid

Vast amounts of this chemical is used all around the world.
It is used on tobacco close to harvest and it is also used on many food crops.
So, untold thousands of people are smoking it and eating it in varying concentrations.

Now, everyone who uses products containing Imidacloprid carefully follows the directions don't they. Well, don't they?
When I worked in the chemical industry (marine coatings) our response to our customers who encountered problems was 'when all else fails please read the instructions.'

Keeping all this in mind you would have to think Imidacloprid is fairly safe for mammals.
If it isn't safe does anyone have any idea what Imid would do to a human being?

We give it to dogs for fleas, doesn't seem to bother them. But then again they only live a maximum of 15 years anyways. Just on how this stuff works I would expect it to increase the chance of cancers...

 

[Fat J]

The mammalian toxicity is so low that it can be applied at high concentrations to a pet's skin. If it were causing adverse reactions, you would see them first in homes using advantage type flea control - as this is imid in higher concentration - much higher exposure.

Imid is less toxic to humans than (organic): pyrethrin, rhotonone(i think may cause cancer), neem oil, sulphur burning, co2 treatment, diatomaceous earth... etc

I couldnt find an effective organic treatment for ra that is LESS toxic to humans than imid. If I'm wrong, let me know... but organic doesnt mean safer - at least not always.

Remember - cyanide, arsenic, ricin(deadly natural toxin used to make sarin gas) and a lot of the nasty toxic shit we know of/have is organically occuring and readily toxic even in plant form.

(Buy, maintain and use a good respirator if you spray)

 

[NinjaCS]

a month later. 2 doses. No root aphids i can see. Used the bayers. I also have been letting the soil get on the really dry side before i water.

Also, for those wondering if they have root aphids, look in the soil, they leave behind a waxy "ash" looking substance. This is from where they are eating. It literally looks sometimes, that someone has ashed a mini cigarette into your soil.

 

[Norkali]

...

Also, for those wondering if they have root aphids, look in the soil, they leave behind a waxy "ash" looking substance. This is from where they are eating. It literally looks sometimes, that someone has ashed a mini cigarette into your soil.

This is what is bothering me right now; I took cuts of every strain (into solo cups of water), trashed everything in the room, have scrubbed everything w/ Physan 20, and applied Botanigard 22WP just tonight as a drench. The worrying part is that I have seen a couple of those whitish ashy spots on a few of my rapid rooter plugs....no crawling bugs....but a few of those waxy ashy spots....makes me a little worried though - will see what happens when I do a dunk of the insecticidal soap tomorrow.

Questions for the experienced root aphid warriors...In your opinion, is Pyganic II an effective contact killer? OR, are there any contact killers (as effective,) other than the ß-Cyfluthrin? (Interesting that it is a pyrethroid...eh?)

 

[Fat J]

In my experience (other brand) pyrethrin was highly effective as a contact killer, but did not have a lasting effect - back 2 the same levels of infestation within 4-7 days - i dont think it hurt the eggs, but my pyrethrin may have been less concentrated.

 

[ShroomDr]

I soaked 4 plants thoroughly, then i added 5mL Bayer Complete to 3Gal of liquid and ran it though the (already hydrated) coco. This is a recirculating reservoir system.

I dont see any crawlers 24 hours later, and im ready to add 1.5-2mL/Gal to the rest of recirculating reservoirs.

I think im going to need a stronger dose, i see a bunch of dead ones, but a few swimmers though the dead bodies. Its only been 36 hours since I dosed the whole garden, but i will probably reapply at 2.5-3mL/Gal just to catch the stragglers.

 

[RetroGrow]

I think im going to need a stronger dose, i see a bunch of dead ones, but a few swimmers though the dead bodies. Its only been 36 hours since I dosed the whole garden, but i will probably reapply at 2.5-3mL/Gal just to catch the stragglers.

If the coco was already hydrated, chances are the plants did not absorb as much imid as they would have if the coco was dry.
It also takes 5 or 6 days before everything is dead, so a second application can't hurt.
Once the plants absorb the imid, it's over for the RAs, and anything else.

 

[NinjaCS]

Yeh, gotta also remember, since the bayer T&S is a systemic, with a touch of a contact killer, that ones that arent killed by the dip/soak, will die once they start munching on the roots. 2 doses is definitely recommended IMO. About a week apart, so that you cover their whole life cycle. Or use some other contact killer that isnt so "harsh" on the reapplication.

 

[crippled1]

Aphid Chaser

Aphid Chaser

I do not have a bug problem at the moment so I can't try this out myself. From the reviews I have found, this stuff works well.

http://www.arbico-organics.com/prod...plants/natural-insecticides-garden-greenhouse

 

[Norkali]

Hmmm...well I could just kick myself in the ass right now...thanks for posting that Crippled; I literally just saw that product the other day and for some reason just assumed it was another brand of sticky-trap....

Very interesting, I have eradicated them (I think), and am simply playing the waiting game right now, seeing if even one survived and is trying to re-establish a population....Botanigard 22WP, Stickyfoot, Pyganic II (5%), and discipline are all in my toolbox this round....we shall see. I might just have to add one or two of these as a prophylactic....especially seeing as how they are so inexpensive!

 

[ShroomDr]

I finally got around to dosing my seedlings, I added 3mL/Gal to 1 week old and 3 week old seedlings. 8 hours later no negative effects.

 

[real ting]

I have been dealing with the small white fast moving soil born bugs, my winged root aphids came back about a month after imid application as well. I hit the vegging pots with another dose of imid four days ago, as well as some spectracide triazicide mixed in, 20ml bayer tree and shrub and 15ml triazicide per gal. I believe the chemical in the triazicide is very similar to whats in the bayer complete, it's a contact killer.

The root aphids and fungus gnats are once again under control, but the small white fast moving bugs were not affected. I believe these are actually hypoaspis mites, or another type of soil borne mite, possibly orbitoid. They don't seem to be doing much to the health of the plants, hypoaspis mites are supposed to be a predatory mite, so they might actually be feeding on the fungus gnat larvae and root aphids, if that's what they are. I'm thinking of just letting them ride, and beginning a more organic control and prevention regime, predatory nematodes and smart pots.

edit: I have to say I don't really like having to apply pesticides like the triazicide, not because I believe it will end up in the finished product but just the act of applying them in an indoor garden is sketchy. It isn't easy to work up an application procedure that won't contaminate various areas of the garden or worse the rest of the residence.

 

[RetroGrow]

I have been dealing with the small white fast moving soil born bugs, my winged root aphids came back about a month after imid application as well. I hit the vegging pots with another dose of imid four days ago, as well as some spectracide triazicide mixed in, 20ml bayer tree and shrub and 15ml triazicide per gal. I believe the chemical in the triazicide is very similar to whats in the bayer complete, it's a contact killer.

The root aphids and fungus gnats are once again under control, but the small white fast moving bugs were not affected. I believe these are actually hypoaspis mites, or another type of soil borne mite, possibly orbitoid. They don't seem to be doing much to the health of the plants, hypoaspis mites are supposed to be a predatory mite, so they might actually be feeding on the fungus gnat larvae and root aphids, if that's what they are. I'm thinking of just letting them ride, and beginning a more organic control and prevention regime, predatory nematodes and smart pots.

edit: I have to say I don't really like having to apply pesticides like the triazicide, not because I believe it will end up in the finished product but just the act of applying them in an indoor garden is sketchy. It isn't easy to work up an application procedure that won't contaminate various areas of the garden or worse the rest of the residence.

The small, fast moving, white bugs are springtails.
Basically harmless.

 

[bickeyb]

how do you apply the bayer tree and shrub to a dwc system? how long do you leave it in the res? i have about 6 to 7 more weeks until harvest can i still use it?

 

[Fat J]

I saw someone who had good success with 5ml/gal in dwc. Should be safe for the Preharvest Interval which is 45 days min, though most prefer to give 50+ days PHI. I would only run it for a week, then drain and replace with fresh solution.

 

[crippled1]

Springtails jump around and I don't think they are fast moving and look absolutely nothing like a hypoaspis mite.
I have this same problem. They are a soil dwelling mite that has taken out my last crop and are trying to do it again.
I have seen them under a scope and they look like this...

I just received a shipment of 25000 hypoaspis mites and they look almost identical to the mites attacking my girls.
They difference is hypoaspis has a distinguishing V shaped marking on it's back.

During lights on, I don't see any mites on my medium but when the lights go off holy fuck, there are thousands of bugs out and about. My plants are looking healthy so I think the good mites are fucking up the bad ones. We'll see how it goes.