Fermented plant extracts

[Rising Moon]

Last year, I bought a small bucket from the brew shop, that people use to make fruit based alcohol. Its got a small airlock on it, and was quite inexpensive.

I filled about 25% of the bucket with Nettle, Comfrey, Chamomile, Horsetail and Yarrow, and poured in an 8 oz bottle of molasses and a little water.

Well apparently I put WAY to much liquid in my bucket, because a week or so later, liquid was pumping out of the airlock, and making a sticky mess. After another week or so, it stopped spewing out of the top, and started smelling funky.

But finally, the smells changed, and it smells planty, sweet and surprisingly good.

I have had it stored in a bottle for months now, and it has remained in the same state, and can imagine it keeping for up to a year+.

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

Burdock is the only FPE that I have used. I just recently used the last of it.

What's the word w/ using molasses for an FPE? I just filled a 5gal bucket half full w/ plant material and then fill the rest w/water after a few weeks there is only about a gallon of liquid left.

 

[mapinguari]

I have never used molasses in FPEs.

For many plants nothing is needed but water and the plant matter, covered with water in a bucket and held down with a rock and / or plate.

Nettle and comfrey in particular work fine this way.

Sometimes I have used lactic acid bacteria culture a la Gil Carandang to break down plant matter. I am not sure it is really necessary to use this on any fresh, wildharvested plants, but there you go.

I would be concerned about breeding nasties with molasses. Have you tried yours yet, Rising Moon?

 

[Oregonism]

I have never used molasses in FPEs.

For many plants nothing is needed but water and the plant matter, covered with water in a bucket and held down with a rock and / or plate.

Nettle and comfrey in particular work fine this way.

Sometimes I have used lactic acid bacteria culture a la Gil Carandang to break down plant matter. I am not sure it is really necessary to use this on any fresh, wildharvested plants, but there you go.

I would be concerned about breeding nasties with molasses. Have you tried yours yet, Rising Moon?

This is probably one of the most important aspects of fermentation and why it makes such an interesting menstrum to facilitate reaction.

I have been working with pectinases recently and have developed more of a theory. Yeast and actinomycetes [nothing conclusive about bacteria, but they probably exist] secret various pectinase enzymes to begin the breakdown of pectin, a polysacharide, which is the basis of lignin [woody] and other plant materials. It seems pectinases' thrive in a pH around or under 4, which is about what most fermentation's produce.

The pectinase attacks the cell wall of lignin, dissolving the pectin into monosaccharides and glycosides. Sound familiar, wine is made this way. Then the micro-organisms can consume some of these "broken-down" elements as food/fuel. Secretions result in other types of mineral combos and sometime raw elements.

Molasses has been pushed as a "cheat", that most assume provides monosaccharides almost immediately to "beneficial microbes". That may be the case, however, these micro-organisms that do secrete these pectinases are able to start eating the sugars for food right away, after breaking them down, not immediate assimilation. [In that respect, you have, two different processes occurring, does it require different organism, or can one or more be faculative?

I personally view it as leaning towards a "placebo" effect, but it certainly can be a good fertilizer or microbe food too....

 

[self]

I've been opening up 5 gal FPE buckets i made over a year ago (mb 2).
I'm very impressed with the rock weed aka Norwegian kelp, aka ascophyllum nodosum brew. I let a bucket sit with harvested sea weed and water with a plate and rock lid all one summer, then filtered it through hardware cloth and screen and decanted into a sealed bucket. I've been using up to 250ml a gallon as a foliar feed. The plants love it. Very vigorous new growth and massive Photosynthetic stems & trunks. I plan on making more this year, and revisiting nettle and comfrey FPE. Right now I just pick nettle and comfrey fresh and use as a mulch...
Self

 

[self]

The crab bucket is still rank, and I still don't dare to open the lactoB-haddock bucket!

 

[Oregonism]

The crab bucket is still rank, and I still don't dare to open the lactoB-haddock bucket!

self....im jealous, good stuff going on. I just started collecting shell pickings myself, also started fishing for trash fish locally [no limits] and throwing them in a bucket.

Now I have another question to answer, "Whats the difference between fermented fresh and saltwater fish", I wonder?

 

[Carbon.Chains]

Hey I ve searched quite a lot and couldnt find a satisfying answer to my question, hopefully Im not being redudant
I ve found an FPE from 2.5 months ago, one of dandelion, one of nettle, both have white mold on the top, where plant matter accumulated after a while (they were blended together when made).
Is that okay to use?
If it changes anything, neither smell strongly, but they never did.

 

[xmobotx]

the problem would be identifying the "white mold" in the somewhat unlikely event it may be something harmful

an "old" FPE will be fine in the compost pile & most likely would be fine for your outdoor ~though some concern is merited w/ pots

if you did try it; it would be good to know your ratios in case the strength of the FPE causes problems ~cause your biology may just be fine

conjecture though that may be

 

[mapinguari]

Those FPEs should be fine. White mold is normal.

 

[Carbon.Chains]

Thanks for the replies, just strained both and put them in bottles.
I ve used a bit of the nettle one at a 1/100 strength on corn and comfrey, hopefully its all good.

 

[palmero]

Check PH.

 

[Carlos Danger]

What sort of containers do you guys use for fpe? My main issue has always been keeping all the material underwater, some inevitably floats to the top out of the water. Figuring I either need 5gal buckets with lids like food service has, or something relatively the diameter of the container to hold things down.

 

[mapinguari]

Carlos, I use Home Depot plastic buckets.

Ceramic crocks would be better.

Plates with a weight work OK to press the material down. You can even use a plastic bag filled with water so it spreads out.

I've had the plate turn and the weight fall in with both methods, though.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Yeah I was just thinking of the couple old ceramic pickle crocks I have. They're in short supply though. I might go grab some lidded pickle buckets from food service buddies.

 

[Oregonism]

Hey I ve searched quite a lot and couldnt find a satisfying answer to my question, hopefully Im not being redudant
I ve found an FPE from 2.5 months ago, one of dandelion, one of nettle, both have white mold on the top, where plant matter accumulated after a while (they were blended together when made).
Is that okay to use?
If it changes anything, neither smell strongly, but they never did.

Dang it, I have a bottle of nettle/fuchsia flower/lemon balm, can't find it to snap a pic, but it had a nice white head on it.
It should be fine, I flush or compost anything mold that is black, blue/green/grey. Most of these culprits generally caused by air leaks or too much air mixture before fermentation.

The mold is probably excreting pectinase, other enzymes, vitamines, fats. The pectinase will breakdown the cell wall from elimination of pectin [polysaccharide] and dissembling them into monosaccharides [fructose, glucose, sucrose] and associated glycosides. So they may be beneficial to the fermentation process


Couple of theories:
1>Too much headspace [air gap between liquid surface and lid] and/ or an air leak.
2>

Check PH.

^ yep other times it is Low pH, but not low enough
3>Material of inner lids [bp][smallest chance]

Gist:
I find when I work with small amounts in 5 gallon buckets that I always get a layer of whitish mold. When I use smaller jars, I always use glass and a rubber glove [or a water trap], to prevent oxygen contamination, then the gas filling the glove [or balloon] tells me when its done. Within [+-10%] accuracy by just this method.

Read up on:
Faculative

 

[Oregonism]

Yeah I was just thinking of the couple old ceramic pickle crocks I have. They're in short supply though. I might go grab some lidded pickle buckets from food service buddies.

If you do use a bucket, use a water trap [Brewer's Trap] to keep the oxygen out and the gas escaping without pulling the lid everyday. I use rocks to hold down my material, most times I use river clay or basalt and might add a few micronutrients to the ferment.

 

[Carbon.Chains]

Most of these culprits generally caused by air leaks or too much air mixture before fermentation.

The mold is probably excreting pectinase, other enzymes, vitamines, fats. The pectinase will breakdown the cell wall from elimination of pectin [polysaccharide] and dissembling them into monosaccharides [fructose, glucose, sucrose] and associated glycosides. So they may be beneficial to the fermentation process


Couple of theories:
1>Too much headspace [air gap between liquid surface and lid] and/ or an air leak.
2>
^ yep other times it is Low pH, but not low enough
3>Material of inner lids [bp][smallest chance]
[/U]

Thanks for the info on molds, very interesting
It s most likely the air gap, it was a good 5cms on a 20cm high bucket, plus the lid isn t airtight.
I just used a regular plastic bucket.
I don t have a pH meter so can t test the other theory.
Anyway the comfrey seemed really happy to have received the nettle FPE, I should ve taken before and after pics, there s a real difference.
I also sprayed some on a medicinal herb of mine, not sure of the name, it s used as a cardiac tonic; noticeable growth overnight on that plant too.
So all is good indeed

 

[Aotf]

Hey y'all, read thru this forum much, but never posted, found this:

Let me know what you think!

 

[fuzzdog]

On your very first post on this thread, you included a list of various plants and plant by-products, with thier NPK values.

some items are listed in "ash", my question is what is your technique to produce "nutrient strong ash". I have what i think is a good method, I dry it, then burn it..... with style of course.........I would just like to hear some different methods..

also thanks for the list..