FEDS JUST BUSTED ANOTHER CALIFORNIA DISPENSARY!

[Blue Dot]

If you'd like to cite a case, of ANY kind, where the jury in LA successfully used jury nullification to void a fed case in that county please do so.

I have a sneaking suspicion you won't find ANY cases though.

They do charge in LA. Didn't "Larry" of the "yellow crack house" have to move to the caymans to escape their wrath.

You guys in LA are a bit delusional.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I'm missing the point.

 

[Amstel Light]

I for one don't believe that it's ok for the federal gov to come in and terrorize citizens or destroy private property, or commit armed robbery, as long as they don't "arrest" anyone. Do you?

you give me negative karma stating "you are beyond stupid" then try and engage in another conversation with me wtf?!! HEHEEHEE
I dont mind, look you are brainwashed man, i am not a fan of the fed. gov..
and nowhere did I applaud the fact no arrest were made..i just explained my belief and if i were a Californian i would want them thrown under the jail (if they were violating state law)... you are missing the big picture...too blinded by your hatred... that is prolly fueled in part by a pill popping fat ass who would not piss on your stoner ass if you were on fire.... 2cents
besides that your prolly an ok dude...

That's it. Simple and true.

We lead the Nation and may I say this discussion is what free speech was intended for.

We also set the bar.


Jack

mistaman & Amstel Light - - - Right on guys!

Those of us who are legal MMJ patients, especially those of us who are in California, have a responsibilty to the rest of the cannabis community to conduct ourselves as straight arrows in th eyes of the public. We will help our cause if our conduct and manners are above reproach.

Spewing divisiveness and hatred only weakens the position of decriminalisation.

wish i was there really do.. you guys need to start a grass roots "green guardian angel" movement that independently inspects and monitors these clubs... they (opponets of these bills) are just waiting for something sensational to start winding the wheels backwards..

 

[BobbleheadJed]

If you'd like to cite a case, of ANY kind, where the jury in LA successfully used jury nullification to void a fed case in that county please do so.

I have a sneaking suspicion you won't find ANY cases though.

They do charge in LA. Didn't "Larry" of the "yellow crack house" have to move to the caymans to escape their wrath.

You guys in LA are a bit delusional.

OJ Simpson? I bet there are many jury nullification examples in LA County but just perhaps not "dispensaries" that were raided.

I DO know a man in Illinois was just acquitted of cannabis charges thanks to people knowing about and using our power of jury nullification. And Barack Obama's complete Democrat Party controlled Illinois doesn't even have medical marijuana either, even though not ONE Republican vote has been needed to pass medical marijuana in Illinois since 2002.

Jury nullification isn't the ONLY reason they won't prosecute, but it is certainly a big reason why they won't. If you raid a place and confiscate stuff and then not prosecute, it says you do not have enough to "sell" a jury. Every case, in some regard, hinges upon jury nullification when you actually have a jury from the public, so you can't discount that as delusional unless you want to join the club.

The Feds have gone a long way to suppress jury nullification, with some good reason but not enough, and it always factors into their prosecutions. There have also been raids in Washington State that were never prosecuted.

Jury nullification hugely helped end alcohol prohibition. They didn't get Capone for beer smuggling, they got him for taxes. Why? Jury might be drinkers. Don't disgard jury nullification as delusional. It has set many human beings free, including slaves and those that helped them. When a person has the ultimate power of putting someone in a cage (much as Obama has), it will result in some people weighing in on the side of freedom if there are no victims. Feds fear jury nullification, make no mistake about it.

 

[Blue Dot]

OJ Simpson?/quote]

Do you even know what jury nullification is. With OJ, they voted NOT GUILTY. Completey different then telling the judge you believe the laws against murder are unjust therefore you are not going to vote a guilty verdict.

Feds fear jury nullification, make no mistake about it.

Feds win 97.5% of their cases against anything in ALL counties.
You're way high if you feel they fear ANYTHING.

Which brings us back to charlie lynch. Oh sure the juries "hated" to have to convict him but felt "their hands were tied" when it came to fed law, ie. didn't even entertain the idea of jury nullification!!

 

[BobbleheadJed]

OJ Simpson?/quote]

Do you even know what jury nullification is. With OJ, they voted NOT GUILTY. Completey different then telling the judge you believe the laws against murder are unjust therefore you are not going to vote a guilty verdict.



Feds win 97.5% of their cases against anything in ALL counties.
You're way high if you feel they fear ANYTHING.

Which brings us back to charlie lynch. Oh sure the juries "hated" to have to convict him but felt "their hands were tied" when it came to fed law, ie. didn't even entertain the idea of jury nullification!!

Yes I obviously know a lot about jury nullification, and that it includes juries finding people innocent if they think they were framed, or that their rights were violated during the investigation, or because the accused murderer was white and the person killed was black. Jury nullification was also used by all white juries to vote NOT GUILTY when white men were accused of murdering of harming black people. And you are partially right, that murder where there is a victim, is different than cannabis, where there is no victim. According to your own statements, the Feds are more worried about jury nullification when there is not a murder than when there is.

And what percentage of cases that they bring to the Grand Jury, or make arrests, or raids/investigations do they prosecute? Don't have that statistic do you, because it would be illegal for you to know, you are too stupid according to your government to know what they are doing.

You don't have to argue, just to argue Blue Dot. Jury nullification is real, it happens, the Feds know it does, laws are written to squelch it, jurists are interviewed and weeded out if they know about it, and on and on.

Change the subject to Lynch if you want, but you are wrong that it is delusional to think jury nullification doesnt factor into the feds decisions greatly.

 

[Blue Dot]

http://www.canorml.org/news/fedmmjcases.html

Please don't be stupid your whole life.

 

[BobbleheadJed]

http://www.canorml.org/news/fedmmjcases.html

Please don't be stupid your whole life.

Does it make you feel big to call someone stupid who is obviously your intellectual equal and perhaps has a lot more knowledge about the issues being discussed than you do?

So you call me stupid, put a link up that is irrelevant, and have nothing to say about the detailed, intelligent, and reasoned points I made. That means, you are the loser Blue Dot. Stupid people coward away from intellectual debates, just you.

 

[Blue Dot]

irrelevant?

Move to cali, end up like them. You're a case waiting to happen.

jury nullification. lol

You really have no idea the power the fed gov has.

 

[BobbleheadJed]

Dude, are you threatening me with jail AGAIN! You are sick. Seriously, what is your problem with wishing people that disagree with you go to jail?

Do you have something intelligent to say that is relevant besides veiled threats?

 

[Ipsissimus]

stop drinking the obama drama kool-aid.

 

[oldschoolfarmer]

After reading 12 pages of bickering, I've drawn some pretty clear conclusions:
1) Nothing is going to stop Federal raids except the people. The only good changes in the last 200 years were caused by the people, not the government (civil rights for example).
2) The people defending Obama sound exactly like the people who defended Bush when he invaded Iraq.
3) There will never be a good candidate in this country. Politics is big business now, our votes don't even make a difference (it's the electoral college that counts remember?)

The only way to fix anything here is through grass roots aka people driven processes. Forget about federal change, it aint gonna happen. However, the more states we can get to enact medical mj laws.... the better the chance is that the feds will follow suit to cash in on taxes.

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

Hey Blue Dot, maybe you know the reason for the Fed not prosecuting the majority of people they raid. Love to hear it, I am all ears. I am just speculating as to why. Got any ideas? Maybe they are just really forgetful, or really bad w/ paperwork?
You realize that if the fed brings a case and the person gets acquitted, it sets a precedent. They do not want that to happen in a federal court. Just my opinion, what's yours. Other than what I say is wrong, what do you think is the reason for low ratio of charges? I did not say it doesn't happen, it does. But easily, the MAJORITY of raids in LA do not result in charges being filed, they are merely scare tactics, hence many of the places continue to operate afterwards.
Like I said, they must be really bad w/ paperwork eh? LOL Seriously you don't believe it's because of the possibility of jury nullification, then why?

 

[Blue Dot]

Honestly IE2KS KUSH, I really don't know why and it's driving me crazy.
I do know it's probably not from free of jury nullification.

I also know the feds like to "sit" on cases, hoping the accused will screw up again so that when they finally do charge them, they have all their ducks in a row. That's one reason for their 97.5 conviction rate.

It is very intriquing to me though why the ratio is so low in LA compared to other counties.
Maybe the District DEA head of LA county is an old hippie that flipped to the dark side? lol

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

Usually, the most logical answer, is correct. How many top level LEO at the federal level do you think are old hippies. I know you were just joking, but really, there is a reason. Then you look at other counties, and it seems to be biz as usual for them. There is a reason. They are cowards, they do not want to lose, and that high conviction rate is such, because they carefully choose whom they are going to destroy. I am here, I have been in a raid, I have first hand experience. I have seen their tactics first hand, and I am here to tell you, as to the topic of the thread, it's not anything to celebrate if they don't arrest someone. The fact that they come in here like there is a cuban kid hiding in the closet w/ guns drawn, stealing, destroying, psychologically terrorizing citizens, is a crime in itself even if they don't make an arrest. I am glad they didn't in this case, don't get me wrong, but it's not anything new, they were doing this looong before Obama came around, and the fact they have yet to file charges or make an arrest has as much to do w/ Obama as does the sun setting and rising everyday. Which was my point to those that seem to think it's a victory and proof that "change" has happened, or are quick to use it to support what they believe about the president and his empty words. For anyone that believes that Obama is the reason no arrests have been made, then I say to you, explain why no arrests have been made in the overwhelming majority of raids that happened in LA county when BUsh was in office?

As far as sitting on cases goes, that's is partially true. There was a case where they raided a couple's home, multiple times in a 3 or 5 year stretch. Every time they just smashed everything, took all the cash they could grab, and all of their plants. Then finally the last time, they did file charges. They took the total number of plants from all of the previous raids at the home and combined them to get over the 99 plant limit.
Not in LA county though of course. But just throwing that out there w/ your point, it's a little different take on it but an example of how they operate out here.
Blue Dot, you should look into it, I don't think there is any other explanation for it, but I would love to hear another theory.

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

irrelevant?

Move to cali, end up like them. You're a case waiting to happen.

jury nullification. lol

You really have no idea the power the fed gov has.

The federal gov is "SUPPOSED" to only have the power that we the people give them, which used to be just enough. Somewhere along the way, we the people as a whole have lost our way, and now believe that the fed gov has all the power and gives rights to us. That is not how this country is supposed to work. We should not fear them, they should fear us.
Bobble is absolutely right on. And that is exactly what ended alcohol prohibition, don't think they don't keep that in the back of their mind every time they pull off another armed robbery, "smash and grab".

 

[Jeffersonian]

Easy IE2KS_KUSH; are you really that offended that our president would use the passive voice when talking about a politically charged issue? He could never come out and simply stop prosecuting high profile marijuana growers, that would be "soft on crime" and one hell of a political football for political detractors to throw around. Anybody who is interested in a healthy MJ economy should be thrilled to hear the highest law enforcement officer in the country talking about there being space for an MJ marketplace. Because by doing so they have started carving out space for this concept within the broader national political climate. Unfortunately you're right that the double speak is chicken-shit and allows them to prosecute cases at will without any real boundaries. But that legal caveat (and the showcase prosecutions that it seeks to justify) allows them to deflate the criticism that always comes from the right when civil rights are expanded. Nevertheless, we have to hope (and push for) that this signals a retreat from the psychotic war on drugs that has been waged on MJ growers/sellers/buyers for the las 25 years...I'm with you that this guy's not the radical that many of us hoped he would be but maybe he's just a little more sophisticated (read willing to trade principal for pragmatism) than many of us because he knows that some journeys start with small steps. However, your position that "He lied to me!" (whaaaaa!) he's worse that the people who openly oppressed this MJ movement and continually sought to strangle it in the crib, is just pouty bullshit. Worse than the Bush DOJ's? Really? What rock have you been hiding under? Rush Limbaugh?

 

[Roughrider]

Barack Obama is looking more and more like his buddy Rod Blagojevich every day.

Until cannabis is re-scheduled and FEDERAL laws are changed, Obama and Holder can talk all they want but it won't change those laws. Sure, they could try to fire DEA agents and supervisors etc. that go ahead and do these raids, but good luck making those firings stand up with their union protection and the law to back them up. Shades of the Bush AG department right there too, firing based on political opinions instead of what the laws say.

Getting fired for enforcing laws on the books? Not gonna happen in any obvious way. The entire "atmosphere" and culture at these agencies will need to change, and that will not happen over night, or even within a year. Those are professionals in their jobs for decades sometimes, and they aren't going to lay off just because some rookie politician thinks he's above federal law. Their main job, like all government jobs, is to protect their own job and create more jobs so they can do less. We have thousands of fervent drug warriors on the government payrolls and it is almost impossible to get rid of them. It is impossible when you never cut their budgets.

How many ticky tacky state laws can be violated? A person could spend their entire lives reading all the California and federal laws and not get through them. If you are looking for sanity from Obama, he doesn't have it.

I think it's pretty obvious that Obama is getting a stark reminder about the rule of law, and that he is not above it, from the DEA. What is he going to do, fire them? The law is on the DEA's side in this one, I'm sorry to say. Barack Obama is ignoring the rule of law, much like Bush and most of the idiots before him, by thinking he has the authority to over-rule Congress and the courts.

Let this piss you off and remind you that federal laws must be changed and that believing politicians is insane.

I hate to get in on the political debate here, but I have some sad news for Obamaists and the Bush haters.

The same wheels that have been grinding away at the top of our government structure, are still grinding away. Bush, Obama, Clinton, Bush... It does not matter, these people are not in charge, they can institute NO real changes in financial policy (which in every way relates to social policy) without the top hands of the Bilderberg Group, the Trilateral comm, and the Federal reserve (which is NOT a federal institution in any way folks) giving their blessing.

Any intention of Mr. Obama getting into office (with MILLIONS of dollars behind him from Bilder Grp) and promoting real social change are a farce. This mans job, is to smile and be charismatic, and take the heat of millions of pissed off americans, while the handful of power elite push their agenda through him.

Does he like it? Probably not. Kennedy tried to disolve the Fedres's power, and was snide to the Trilateral commision and Bilderberg, and decided he was going to do "whats right for the world and the american people."

Look what that got him...

Everyone does realize that 100 percent of the big O's staff is filled with wall street bankers, both past and present, correct? No social reformers, no new military or foriegn policy people, no small business owners, no retirees, nothing...

ALL wall street bankers, and we even have the allmighty ex fedres pres in charge of the treasury.

Who gave the big O his first job? The Rockas!

In short, the next 8 years are going to be manipulated just like the last 16 to 24 financially, which MUCH worse coming socially in the next 8. (Youth corps, facism, world bank, new world order anyone?) Now is the time for these Agendas that have been in the works for decades, and Obama is the man to pull the trigger.

Welcome to the machine, time to take your blinders off and do a teeny tiny bit of research.

I know this thread evolved from the fact that people feel the DEA is lying about "not raiding dispensaries anymore, per what Obama said" but I have not seen a single truth come out of the man. Its ALL smoke and mirrors, and he does it SO WELL. At least I knew Bush was lying when he spoke!

Its hard not to want to give Obama a blowjob when he talks. Charismatic guy to say the VERY least.

I'll bring our troops home. Not gonna happen.
I'll work hard to abolish wiretapping and the the constitutional rights of the American people, by reforming the Homeland security acts. (He signed an executive order the day he got into office, further solidifying these acts.)

5 trillion dollars in printed cash is MISSING. 2 trillion has been stated as "secret" by the administration.

Accountability of stimulous moneys going to banking/fedres/investment houses is NOT retroactive with this last stimulous. Only on further stimulous packages, that have not been loaned yet. The threat of martial law if its not passed.

The list goes fucking on and on...

I'm done. Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled programs.

 

[Thundurkel]

they had a giant grow in the basement of the building...they were having patients sign away their right to grow their own and in return giving them 3-4 ounces free a couple of times a year, when in fact, the amount of weed harvested off that one patients plants was much much more. These guys really liked to make money...but then again most of us do too.

See if that is in fact the truth then good those asshole's fucked up on their own and karma is a bitch... I don't wish jail upon anybody for growing or dealing with cannabis but if you are screwing people just to make money then you deserve to get your shit took but not put in a cage

 

[TanzanianMagic]

Message to the republican shills: The Elections Are Over.

You can stop campaigning now.