Everybody a breeder ?
- Thread starter silverhazefiend
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relative to plant breeding... or the universe?
Attention citizens, the bomb has entered the atmosphere
How much narration are we allowed to do? we should have a seperate thread were we discuss it like a sports program
"Weird their, leading the charge for the hippy breeders, he's got some very nice looking plants in his albumns but will the Seedbank afiicianados challenge wiki as a credible source to back up a definition?"
sorry I'm not Tom, but maybe I can help...
this is where the misunderstanding is taking place... the "middle percentage" as you call it or mean/average expression is not "worthless" in the eyes of the grower as that is what an honest breeder advertises, is the average phenotype found within the line when grown at least marginally adequately... but...
for someone who wishes to breed the line into something true breeding and exceptional across multiple and often complex traits they need to grow out many more seeds in order to find such a true breeding individual... (as the more, and the more complex, traits one selects for the lower the odds of finding an individual that breeds true for each and every one of them.... I think it was DJ who wrote that when selecting for five separate traits only 1 in 256 [or something around that] would be true breeding for all five traits selected... and it increases exponentially with each additional trait).... than would someone who is just looking to grow some sensi bud of the advertised (average) phenotype from within the genotype (strain)...
so the misunderstanding is that the grower need not buy forty seeds to find a good representation of the strain as advertised... like many seem to think that is what tom and others are saying... but if a breeder wants to work that line into something true breeding or outcross an already known stable line to incorporate its traits into another genotype... they need to grow enough seeds to find the most exceptional individual that breeds true to both further the line and outcross it to other genotypes
not for nothing, but those are likely dominant, single loci traits and therefore very easy to identify in the potential parents and progeny etc etc.
I mean hemp could have webbed leaves and purple flowers... those traits are of no significant importance to medicinal/connoisseur cannabis breeding... (sure purple flowers look pretty
)
this is where the misunderstanding is taking place... the "middle percentage" as you call it or mean/average expression is not "worthless" in the eyes of the grower as that is what an honest breeder advertises, is the average phenotype found within the line when grown at least marginally adequately... but...
for someone who wishes to breed the line into something true breeding and exceptional across multiple and often complex traits they need to grow out many more seeds in order to find such a true breeding individual... (as the more, and the more complex, traits one selects for the lower the odds of finding an individual that breeds true for each and every one of them.... I think it was DJ who wrote that when selecting for five separate traits only 1 in 256 [or something around that] would be true breeding for all five traits selected... and it increases exponentially with each additional trait).... than would someone who is just looking to grow some sensi bud of the advertised (average) phenotype from within the genotype (strain)...
so the misunderstanding is that the grower need not buy forty seeds to find a good representation of the strain as advertised... like many seem to think that is what tom and others are saying... but if a breeder wants to work that line into something true breeding or outcross an already known stable line to incorporate its traits into another genotype... they need to grow enough seeds to find the most exceptional individual that breeds true to both further the line and outcross it to other genotypes
not for nothing, but those are likely dominant, single loci traits and therefore very easy to identify in the potential parents and progeny etc etc.
I mean hemp could have webbed leaves and purple flowers... those traits are of no significant importance to medicinal/connoisseur cannabis breeding... (sure purple flowers look pretty
)
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sorry I'm not Tom, but maybe I can help...
this is where the misunderstanding is taking place... the "middle percentage" as you call it or mean/average expression is not "worthless" in the eyes of the grower as that is what an honest breeder advertises, is the average phenotype found within the line when grown at least marginally adequately... but...
for someone who wishes to breed the line into something true breeding and exceptional across multiple and often complex traits they need to grow out many more seeds in order to find such a true breeding individual... (as the more, and the more complex, traits one selects for the lower the odds of finding an individual that breeds true for each and every one of them.... I think it was DJ who wrote that when selecting for five separate traits only 1 in 256 [or something around that] would be true breeding for all five traits selected... and it increases exponentially with each additional trait).... than would someone who is just looking to grow some sensi bud of the advertised (average) phenotype from within the genotype (strain)...
so the misunderstanding is that the grower need not buy forty seeds to find a good representation of the strain as advertised... like many seem to think that is what tom and others are saying... but if a breeder wants to work that line into something true breeding or outcross an already known stable line to incorporate its traits into another genotype... they need to grow enough seeds to find the most exceptional individual that breeds true to both further the line and outcross it to other genotypes
not for nothing, but those are likely dominant, single loci traits and therefore very easy to identify in the potential parents and progeny etc etc.
I mean hemp could have webbed leaves and purple flowers... those traits are of no significant importance to medicinal/connoisseur cannabis breeding... (sure purple flowers look pretty
I do agree but just want to point out while you're right that purple bud is (at least in my experiance) a dominant characteristic, webbed leaves are controlled by a single recessive allele, (though if anything that makes it slightly easier to select for if you know it's there because any plants expressing it will breed true).
V
vonforne
lmao!
You are all great entertainment to read.
You are all great entertainment to read.
yes,
and I'm sure you know this, but so we don't confuse people... this doesn't mean make S1s and now you breed a strain, either... you make S1s then grow out 25-30-50-100 of the S1s and then self the best S1 making S2s grow the S2s, select and self the S2 and make S3s...
better yet start with a stable true breeding line use a male from said line onto some selected females... grow out 40 plus of each of the simple hybrid crosses you just made, then select the best female from the best hybrid crosses and begin the line breeding/pedigree methods
good point... I have no experience with webbed leaves... (IMO useless trait, though I understand it may help with camouflage)
yeah, it being a recessive traits makes it that much easier to select for and find true breeding individuals in just a couple generations as long as you know it is present in the genotype
I have a theory that the folds of the leaves help plants with droughts, Donald Mallard and Otto Flour obviously know shitloads more about it than me.
But when I last had pintura ruderalis the one thing I noticed was you get loads of moisture retained in the pockets made when the leaves fold over on themselves (which webbed leaves generally do once they're above a certain size), a day or two after misting them indoors there would still be droplets trapped.
I think they'd be very useful if you lived somewhere a bit too arid for the usual pinnate varieties. (Just wait until I release "Aridity Haze"
)But mainly I want them for camoflag and a tiny bit because ornamental weed brightens up a grow room
help me understand this image. are you saying that i can get true breeding seeds fasters by back crossing the selfed seeds back to the original clone, or do you mean self the original then inbreed the offspring? or so you mean self each generation to get the next one?
i.e. self clone, grow s1, self s1, grow s2, etc?
guess i shoulda read some more.
https://www.integratedbreeding.net/plant-breeding-concepts-methods
best inclusive resource that goes over the various breeding methods
best inclusive resource that goes over the various breeding methods
whoop!
big thanks to the mods for bringing the thread back!
VG
big thanks to the mods for bringing the thread back!
VG
I mean hemp could have webbed leaves and purple flowers... those traits are of no significant importance to medicinal/connoisseur cannabis breeding... (sure purple flowers look pretty
Anthocyanin pigments have medicinal properties too, just like cannabinoids or terpenes.
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/ss01/anthocyanin.html
Keep on growing
Aardwolf
Member
I have set up a little project. I have a couple of monoecious specimens and some pistillate individuals of a line I made, I intend to make some seed on the monoecious individuals and grow out the progeny to see what happens, I already sampled some monoecious pollen on a bud on another plant and its viable.
These are natural monoecious plants, no stress has been induced by me to my knowledge.
They are growing in the environment they were propagated in and have shown pubescent reproductive systems before 12/12. Since 12/12 two plants have started to throw many many pistils amongst the male flowers, the plants were I thought male, now the tops are dominantly pistillate, I'm going to finish them off.
These are natural monoecious plants, no stress has been induced by me to my knowledge.
They are growing in the environment they were propagated in and have shown pubescent reproductive systems before 12/12. Since 12/12 two plants have started to throw many many pistils amongst the male flowers, the plants were I thought male, now the tops are dominantly pistillate, I'm going to finish them off.
Monoecious as in fiber hemp or a drug variety with lots of intersex?
If they're fiber you'll get a hell of a lot of CBD in the offspring!
If they're fiber you'll get a hell of a lot of CBD in the offspring!
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