ebb & Grow/ Multiflow controller construction

[MyNameIsEarl]

Any hardware store

yeak ok no worries


im trying to find pond pumps that might have to run dry with this type of setup but the emails i have received recomend not not run the pumps dry?????

i have pond master here but they said dont run them dry?

 

[BlindDate]

About running direct drive pumps dry:

1. The reason not to run a direct drive submersible pump dry is because without the water jacket it will overheat. This is because the motor is sealed on a submersible pump.

2. This is NOT a concern in my application since the pump is only going to run 15 minutes or so maximum AND it is still sitting in a puddle of water half way up the pump at the bottom of the controller bucket.

3. Remember that manufacturer recommendations say this because they assume the pump will run 24/7.

4. Trust me.

5. If this still REALLY bothers you then buy a bilge pump used in boats. Rule makes all kinds and they definitely are made to run dry.

 

[MyNameIsEarl]

hay blind will these pumps work?

http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/category2_1.htm

Sedra Pondmaster KSP1000 600lph (half way down page)

 

[MyNameIsEarl]

should be ok i reckon

 

[willbeHigh]

The inline pump sits on the out side of the res,not submered in the tank water.Yes they will work.PEACE

 

[BlindDate]

hay blind will these pumps work?

NO they will not work in the controller bucket. Those are mag drive pumps.

 

[MyNameIsEarl]

and by mag you mean magnetic right ???

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

this is a question for BLINDDATE(since i dont have enough posts to PM yet): i have followed this thread from beginning to end, and i think that if anyone can answer my couple questions you can,

1. I have all the parts to the krusty contoller bucket for EBB AND GROW system, but i bought different float-switches, mine are the 20VA from this site http://www.gemssensors.com/content.aspx?id=2568 and these are the specs for the floats that krusty sugested in his thread http://www.aquahub.com/store/media/FLT001SpecSheetConsumer.pdf , i want to kow would i have any problems with overall operation of teh controller with the switches i bought? i have all the other parts (pool and spa timer , radio shack relays, etc.) but i got overzealous with the float swithces.

2. i am very interested in your ebb and flow system controller as the parts i have for the krusty controler are going to be for a 2gl bucket system and i eventually want o build another for a 5gl system using your controller but i have to know:

A- as far as the timers what relation are they to water level: meaning have you timed the timers to stop pumping at a certain time for a certain amount of containers or is that reliant upon the floatswitch you are using?

B-once the containers are filled doesnt the pump keep going? or do you connect your float switch to a relay that stops/starts the pumps in relation to fill/drain?

i understand your argument in regards to the simplicity of your controller in relation to the complexity of the krusty controller, but it seems to me that the krusty sys. deals more with an absolute control in relation to time and water level, but your sys has one control in relation to time but not to water level . . .

B-if your using pumps then why not use them in relation to time for your amount of spaces to fill and not involve the switch at all which would cause back flow pressure and cause the pump to burn out?

C-what kind of pumps are you talking about using as i am concerned about noise (we had flooding in my area and even my neighbors heard my siphoning pump and it was the little one from homedepot!!) cause if your talking about one of those larger bilge or sump pumps then DAMN i might aswell cal the FEDS myself!!

anyway, i guess you can PM me but i cant PM you, and i amd very very interested in your system but i need to know. i like to do allmy trouble shooting on paper first,
thanks, looking out for a response

QUESTION: did mynameisearl ever get that thign running?!

 

[BlindDate]

FriendinDeed.........First, this Multiflow system is nothing like a Krusty system. They are entirely different.

Your questions:

1. I have all the parts to the krusty contoller bucket for EBB AND GROW system, but i bought different float-switches, mine are the 20VA from this site http://www.gemssensors.com/content.aspx?id=2568 and these are the specs for the floats that krusty sugested in his thread http://www.aquahub.com/store/media/...eetConsumer.pdf , i want to kow would i have any problems with overall operation of teh controller with the switches i bought? i have all the other parts (pool and spa timer , radio shack relays, etc.) but i got overzealous with the float swithces.

Those floats will work just fine in the Multiflow. Any reed float will work. My version uses a mechanical float valve.

2. i am very interested in your ebb and flow system controller as the parts i have for the krusty controler are going to be for a 2gl bucket system and i eventually want o build another for a 5gl system using your controller but i have to know:

A- as far as the timers what relation are they to water level: meaning have you timed the timers to stop pumping at a certain time for a certain amount of containers or is that reliant upon the floatswitch you are using?

Well,,,Are you talking about MY simple version, or the Multiflow? In my version the timer is simply on long enough to completely fill or drain the buckets. In the multiflow it is the same except that the floats and relays cycle the pumps on and off to compensate for fill/drain lag time. Either way the timer needs to be on long enough to do the task.

B-once the containers are filled doesnt the pump keep going? or do you connect your float switch to a relay that stops/starts the pumps in relation to fill/drain?

In my version, yes the pump keeps going until it times out. My point is WHO CARES! In the Multiflow, the floats will turn it off when finished.

i understand your argument in regards to the simplicity of your controller in relation to the complexity of the krusty controller, but it seems to me that the krusty sys. deals more with an absolute control in relation to time and water level, but your sys has one control in relation to time but not to water level . . .

Ahhhh....Now I understand. You are calling the Multiflow a Krusty controller. Wrong terminology. But to respond, Yes, your analysis is correct. My system only controls in relation to time. Again, my point if that time is all you need to get the job done.

B-if your using pumps then why not use them in relation to time for your amount of spaces to fill and not involve the switch at all which would cause back flow pressure and cause the pump to burn out?

Because of the lag involved when filling and draining. The controller bucket will fill or drain very quickly, yet all those lines and buckets are still filling and draining.

The pump will not burn-out. That is ridiculous. The impeller will just spin.

C-what kind of pumps are you talking about using as i am concerned about noise (we had flooding in my area and even my neighbors heard my siphoning pump and it was the little one from homedepot!!) cause if your talking about one of those larger bilge or sump pumps then DAMN i might aswell cal the FEDS myself!!

The fill pump will not make any noise since it is always submerged, but the drain pump IS going to slurp. Just put a tight cover on the controller bucket and you won't hear anything.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

i am so glad you responded to my Q's, it made m,y day to know that the knowledge is still out there and the gurus are still around

the float question was the most imortant since i bought a dozen of them, god they were cheap though i think a buck a peice from some place hobby place in florida.

yeah your right i should have bee refering to it as the krusty controller which is what it actually was/ is.

well if anything i would give your timers a try, but i think that if your gonna rely on time then you might aswell go ahead and * raise teh buckets up** create a passive flow system like that "2 liter bottle system" i saw around here but just use teh buckets and no need for float vavle or any valve, just timers , the thing will run untill needed and no worried about continuation/ flooding, i think someone on here made mention of it , actually did it. i have had the 35 gl of water on teh floor and the pissed of neighbors, i understand everyones fear of your system.

but hey if it works for you thats all matters, but since i am addicted to tinkering , . . i must tinker so i shall retrieve my parts and get to constructing of teh krusty CONTROLLER bucket

seriously, thanks so much once again

 

[MyNameIsEarl]

im almost finished constructing my controller bucket with a machanical float sotage tank float.

the only trouble is that the float valve is very restrictive in water flow and it takes about 1 hour to fully fill 10 x 10 litre/2.5 gal buckets.

blind date does it matter how long it takes to fill the buckets ??? IE: roots submerged for 1 hour or so at the designated fill times???

 

[MyNameIsEarl]

i am so glad you responded to my Q's, it made m,y day to know that the knowledge is still out there and the gurus are still around

the float question was the most imortant since i bought a dozen of them, god they were cheap though i think a buck a peice from some place hobby place in florida.

yeah your right i should have bee refering to it as the krusty controller which is what it actually was/ is.

well if anything i would give your timers a try, but i think that if your gonna rely on time then you might aswell go ahead and * raise teh buckets up** create a passive flow system like that "2 liter bottle system" i saw around here but just use teh buckets and no need for float vavle or any valve, just timers , the thing will run untill needed and no worried about continuation/ flooding, i think someone on here made mention of it , actually did it. i have had the 35 gl of water on teh floor and the pissed of neighbors, i understand everyones fear of your system.

but hey if it works for you thats all matters, but since i am addicted to tinkering , . . i must tinker so i shall retrieve my parts and get to constructing of teh krusty CONTROLLER bucket

seriously, thanks so much once again

as blind date said the float switch height will stop flow at the top of the controller bucket once the designated level is reached.

For an example its takes me (time) 1 hour 4 mins 20 Seconds to fill 10 buckets with the float switch i have with a 250 GAL/600 liters gal per hour pump.

Now i set my timer for 1 hour and 15 minutes. So when the controller gets full the controller bucket stops filling. The pump still runs for 11 or so minutes but no water is pumped into the controller. Once it hits the timer off time BAM the pump switches off.

 

[MyNameIsEarl]

anyone?

 

[Budweiser13]

Jason Lee says you get many good karma''''s for australians all your efforts earl....................................

 

[MyNameIsEarl]

Jason Lee says you get many good karma''''s for australians all your efforts earl....................................

i hope so

 

[kardon]

Im watching keenly hey, will be following your lead if it works out

If we cant use a USA powered contoller, what about UK ?

http://www.hydroponics-hydroponics.com/pd-groteq-flood-and-drain-system.cfm

 

[Harry Gypsna]

gutted, I thought id found somehwere that had the krypto controller sussed out for 240 volts(im in uk) never mind eh.
A way to do it simply would just be have a res, with feedlines from the bottom of the res(very well sealed in and checked for leakage regularly obviously, or you can rise your buckets and have the fill lines coming from the top if the res) going along to your buckets as normal, but also add a drain line at the desired level, running back and dropping into the res.the drain line should be double the size of the fill line to prevent overflow. Thats it....common plumbing parts will do for the drains, 40mm waste fittings are ideal, put a net pot over the fill and drain lines inside the buckets and fill em up. youll only need one timer...if you want you can get a digital one and have closer control over the feed times-feed til you get some return from the furthest bucket from the pump, -keep an eye on it and alter as required. you could use inner buckets too if you want and not bother with the net pots over the fill and drains in the buckets and keep the versatility of the multiflow for being able to swap the plants aboout from bucket to bucket easily.
I hope you manage to figure out the krypto though...