Eagle 20 PM Killer, Cancerous?

[Bi0hazard]

Got PM in Veg Stage = Eagle 20 (Kills Permanently, and best Preventative during Veg I've seen)
Got PM in Flowering Stage = JMS Stylet Oil (Kills PM cell-walls 100% removal - Completely organic “Food Grade Quality”, and safe to use in flowering... you just have to reapply every 10-14 days. Well worth it if you get PM in flowering)

I and others can absolutely confirm that the JMS Stylet Oil works 100%, you just have to reapply it every 2 weeks if you are using it in flowering. Well worth; not having to kill your garden or use something that is a systematic treatment during flowering.

If you catch PM in veg, Eagle 20 will kill it permanently, assuming you clean the area it's in and it's not exposed to more PM in a couple months when the eagle is gone. It's also a great preventative measure in Veg...

But if you catch PM during flowering, definitely go the organic path with JMS stylet oil, all PM cell walls will be dead and gone and it will be a healthy smoke for all who ingest it.

PS: PM is horrible for people with immune deficiencies, their body cannot fight off mold and could be catastrophic if given to certain medical patients! Definitely not cool, to be passing out PM bud commercially or medically, even if your immune system is working well enough to fight it off.. The chances of it reaching the hands of someone using Cannabis medically - whether they have a card in a medical state or get herb in the blackmarket from non medical states is huge. Cannabis is about healing the body - why allow molds to be present on a medicine? When most people won't even eat food with mold on it...

JMS Stylet Oil's CDMS Review @ http://www.cdms.net/LDat/mp5QF001.pdf

 

[Veg N Out]

Bi0Hazard let me get your thinking straight...Cure mold by applying carcinogens in the name of medicine?...Nice..

 

[moodster]

yes i agree rather have eagle treated buds once in veg instead of powery mildew infected buds PM dont smoke nice LOL

 

[Bi0hazard]

double post

 

[Bi0hazard]

Veg n Out,

Can you please link me to the study on Eagle 20's post-systemic carcinogenic effects - Showing that carcinogens are still present after the systematic properties have left the plant 70 days after spraying? I'd like to see it, or is this an unfounded opinion? If the data is there, I really want to read it... But that wasn't what my post was about, it was about an organic alternative to eagle 20 if people get PM during flowering. You are aware you purposely blurred whether eagle20 was sprayed in flowering or veg as the same thing, by just saying 'using eagle 20' at all - I've been asking for the difference... Where is the evidence for it's carcinogenic effects when sprayed in veg, timed so harvest would be well after the systemic chemicals are gone?


If you read my previous two posts, hopefully in full - you can Clearly see that I do not ever recommend using Eagle 20 in Flowering, just to stay on the safe side. I was providing a safe alternative that can be used in Flowering to kill PM, JMS Stylet Oil - it can also be used on fruits and vegetables you eat the next day off the plant..

How could that have been lost on you? You do read the posts you are responding to before typing right? Like paying attention to the context of what you are replying to?
I hope you realize I am asking for you to post a study on the post-systemic carcenegenic effects from Myclobutanil/Eagle 20 - would love to see what in the research field proves your strong opinion ...

This is Important (Below):
PM can be fatal to medical patients with immune deficiencies and complicate many other illnesses. Please realize my post was providing a safe organic solution for people who get PM in flowering, so they don't have to consider putting something potentially toxic during the flowering stage like Eagle 20.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Irony: arguing against eagle20 even though you have no proof that proper use harms, while simultaneously saying that it's ok to have pm on your buds because there is no proof that smoking pm harms.

Neither assertion is true. E20 has harmful effects, otherwise the cautions on the label would not be there. I personally am asserting that it's preferable to have PM spores on the bud rather than E20. And yes, I have searched, long and hard, to find proof that it's harmful. I simply cannot.

That's something a lot of folks aren't getting and I'm tiring of repeating. I used to automatically believe that powdery mildew would be harmful to humans, in all instances. So I decided to prove it. It was when I could not prove my previous belief right that I came around to a different way of thinking.

Got PM in Veg Stage = Eagle 20 (Kills Permanently, and best Preventative during Veg I've seen)
Got PM in Flowering Stage = JMS Stylet Oil (Kills PM cell-walls 100% removal - Completely organic “Food Grade Quality”, and safe to use in flowering... you just have to reapply every 10-14 days. Well worth it if you get PM in flowering)

I and others can absolutely confirm that the JMS Stylet Oil works 100%, you just have to reapply it every 2 weeks if you are using it in flowering. Well worth; not having to kill your garden or use something that is a systematic treatment during flowering.

If you catch PM in veg, Eagle 20 will kill it permanently, assuming you clean the area it's in and it's not exposed to more PM in a couple months when the eagle is gone. It's also a great preventative measure in Veg...

But if you catch PM during flowering, definitely go the organic path with JMS stylet oil, all PM cell walls will be dead and gone and it will be a healthy smoke for all who ingest it.

PS: PM is horrible for people with immune deficiencies, their body cannot fight off mold and could be catastrophic if given to certain medical patients! Definitely not cool, to be passing out PM bud commercially or medically, even if your immune system is working well enough to fight it off.. The chances of it reaching the hands of someone using Cannabis medically - whether they have a card in a medical state or get herb in the blackmarket from non medical states is huge. Cannabis is about healing the body - why allow molds to be present on a medicine? When most people won't even eat food with mold on it...

JMS Stylet Oil's CDMS Review @ http://www.cdms.net/LDat/mp5QF001.pdf

I'm a huge fan of JMS Stylet, and it's what I use often as part of my organic IPM.

I would tend to agree with the statement about immune-deficient patients, and it's how I've qualified my previous statements. However, again, I find the dead spores to be preferable to Eagle 20 ingestion, especially because it is *not* approved for the closest corollary to cannabis--tobacco.

Veg n Out,

Can you please link me to the study on Eagle 20's post-systemic carcinogenic effects - Showing that carcinogens are still present after the systematic properties have left the plant 70 days after spraying? I'd like to see it, or is this an unfounded opinion? If the data is there, I really want to read it... But that wasn't what my post was about, it was about an organic alternative to eagle 20 if people get PM during flowering. You are aware you purposely blurred whether eagle20 was sprayed in flowering or veg as the same thing, by just saying sprayed at all - I've been asking for the difference... Where is the evidence for it's carcinogenic effects when sprayed in veg, timed so harvest would be well after the systemic chemicals are gone?

Can you show where it's approved for a material that's going to be smoked?

This is Important (Below):
PM can be fatal to medical patients with immune deficiencies and complicate many other illnesses. Please realize my post was providing a safe organic solution for people who get PM in flowering, so they don't have to consider putting something potentially toxic during the flowering stage like Eagle 20.

That assertion must be backed up, please. I have endeavored to back it up on my own and have failed. If you have citable, verifiable papers, studies, whatever, just something published and peer-reviewed, I would truly love to see it.

People will not eat foods infected with PM because they're unattractive. We Americans (westerners?) have become too accustomed to all our food being pretty and perfect. The slightest blemish and we cringe in horror, and fear.

If all fungi were automatically harmful to everyone who was immune-deficient, then they'd never be able to enjoy a crimini, shiitake, white button, oyster, or any other edible mushroom. It's not an ipso facto sort of deal is what I'm saying. So, why can they be exposed to these fungi, but not that fungi?

 

[Bi0hazard]

SeaMaiden,

Thanks for the post. I haven't seen any studies on the effects of smoking materials that had eagle 20 sprayed on them.

In your studies, have you come across any indication of the levels of Myclobutanil/Eagle 20 that are present after 70 days - when the systemic effects are gone? With indoor growing/mothers we have the ability to treat a plant and wait long periods of time before flowering them - unlike many seed grown genetics in food agriculture. I'm honestly curious about how long it stays in the plants, and if they can show that it is gone or not after 'X amount of days' specifically.

I don't have any evidence that eagle 20 is toxic when sprayed during flowering, but I understand there are some concerns about possible risks. which is why I really made sure to type "potentially toxic" when sprayed during the flowering stage - to show to possibility that hasn't been ruled out. I think this would be important to get to the bottom of.

Looking at my 'people not eating moldy food comment', I guess it wasn't the best example, because food mold/penicillin isn't that bad for you. However, Black mold and on the other hand Powdery Mildew - definitely should be avoided by people who have weak immune systems - even if healthy peoples immune systems can fight off a good amount of it. But like you said, food mold isn't generally that damaging to people with immune-deficiencies.

I really want to see a study on how much Eagle20 is present in the plant after 70+ days, and see if it shows any carcinogenic effects if sprayed at a time, where it would be completely gone from the plant before harvest.

Best Regards,

Bi0hazard

 

[SeaMaiden]

Heh, and I really REALLY want to know how powdery mildew fungi affect humans, how, and by what method of ingestion. Every week I hit Google Scholar and Scirus to try to find something, anything.

I've thought about looking more deeply into tobacco cultivation, but I've been eyeball deep in California health & safety code, penal code, business code, and agricultural code, along with all the planting and stuff (market garden) that I must also be focused on.

Thank you for picking up what I've been putting down. This all started for me maybe a year ago I'd say, when I was about to state unequivocally that powdery mildew can kill or at least make folks very sick. I thought it would be SO easy to find the evidence, too. And then I couldn't. And I can't. I'm not sure if it's my search terms or what, but I'm not finding the evidence to support my previous argument.

Having had friends who were immune-deficient due to being transplantees, seeing what could happen to them if exposed to even a relatively minor infection, I've done my best to be extremely conscious of these issues.

As for longevity in plant tissues, I think that may be as much a function of the plant in question, the media and method of cultivation as anything else. Now you've got my curiosity up about that, too.

I will note that JMS is good in veg, too, and it's good for treating spider mites and a rather extensive list of other diseases and pests. I thought it was a petroleum byproduct, it's good to know that the organic version is made from grass. Hehhehheh.... I remember when it was called grass. And it smelled like grass, too!

 

[Bi0hazard]

Sea,

Definitely let us know if you make any new discoveries on PM damage to healthy and immune deficient patients alike - I'm interested in that as well. I've smoke bud a couple years ago from that a friend grew - I kept getting a irritation/pain in my chest - that I usually wouldn't get. I looked at it under a scope and there was mold for sure. A couple other times I've tasted that moldy taste and had similar lung/stomach discomfort. Of course this is anecdotal evidence to the fullest, but it also logical that it should at least be avoided, even if it wasn't "that bad".

Definitely, want to know about the longevity in plant tissue as well - that could be a safe way to make sure you wait before flowering for people who want permanent PM removal. Which JMS Stylet Oil doesn't achieve, since it needs applications every 2 weeks.

oh ya.. I also realized my "Potentially Toxic" comment has the words "Potent" and "toxic" in the same phrase - even though it means: 'Possibly Toxic' lol.. Definitely could have been confusing.

 

[greenmatter]

i'm not pro chems by any means, but they do have their place in this game.

labels are a really good thing to be reading (and i do), but you have to admit that some are not really complete. bone meal and blood meal don't tell you how bad you can get fucked up by things that could be in the bag. feather meal does not mention hormones, antibiotics,or the shit conditions that the chicken who was wearing them lived in.

i can't prove organics are safe these days, but i will continue to use them ....... and if i ever wind up with PM again the eagle will probably be coming off the shelf again for another one night stand.

 

[Mia]

"E20 has harmful effects"
like what?
My shampoo has harmful effects if i get it in my eye.
Qualify "harmful" otherwise the statement adds little to the conversation.
Like Biohazard I'm all for knowing what's really going on, but am not seeing very enlightening answers....
For example, mycobutanol, if I'm recalling correctly isn't carcinogenic, mutagenic, etc.
Naphthalene which is used in E20 seems to be of more concern per the MSDS, but further research on Naphthalene shows that it's up in the air whether it really is carcinogenic.
So as far as I can tell there is no sound basis for making the claim that E20 is carcinogenic.
Plus the fact Naphthalene makes up a very small percentage of E20.
Then we come to half lifes...
We need better info.

 

[SeaMaiden]

But, does it have to be carcinogenic to be bad? Resistance.

How many E20 users here adhere to the strict instructions limiting its use on an annual basis? How many adhere to the rotation schedule they recommend in the labeling?

There is just as much a responsibility with regard to issues such as creating resistance as there is with the chance of making people sick, because creating resistant organisms ultimately harms us all by a broader method.

There are zero issues of resistance when one is using products like JMS Stylet oil, or even better, upping the growing game so one is growing plants at their optimum health. I'm not there yet, but I hope to be someday.

 

[krunchbubble]

But, does it have to be carcinogenic to be bad? Resistance.

How many E20 users here adhere to the strict instructions limiting its use on an annual basis? How many adhere to the rotation schedule they recommend in the labeling?

There is just as much a responsibility with regard to issues such as creating resistance as there is with the chance of making people sick, because creating resistant organisms ultimately harms us all by a broader method.

There are zero issues of resistance when one is using products like JMS Stylet oil, or even better, upping the growing game so one is growing plants at their optimum health. I'm not there yet, but I hope to be someday.

BUT, the thing is, we ARE NOT reapplying on a continuous basis...

I JUST had to use some, after several years of NOT using it, due to infected clones i took in...

Using Eagle20 twice in several years, IS NOT going to build resistance, especially with dozens of generations in between spraying...

 

[Mia]

And I don't disagree, but the title of the thread is "Eagle 20 PM Killer, Cancerous?".
I just flipped a bunch of my garden into flower, when I transplanted 36 plants, I saw two quarter of a penny size spots of pm and thought about eagle and decided against it. Sprayed Do.rights instead.

 

[Hydrosun]

What does PM taste like?

What does Eagle 20 taste like?

I've been smoking for over 20 years so I have probably smoked both of them, however it would be nice to notice the taste of either of them.

Also since we heavy cannabis users are fairly cancer free I will continue to smoke anything I buy, I grow, or my friends have as I travel the world.

I'm pretty sure Diet Coke is worse for me than PM or Eagle, but I'd really like to know what they taste like so as to use less of that type of cannabis.

 

[SeaMaiden]

BUT, the thing is, we ARE NOT reapplying on a continuous basis...

I JUST had to use some, after several years of NOT using it, due to infected clones i took in...

Using Eagle20 twice in several years, IS NOT going to build resistance, especially with dozens of generations in between spraying...

I've read of a *lot* of people who state very clearly that they use it as a prophylactic, i.e. treating pre-emptively, with every batch of clones. And overuse is already an issue for apple growers. Overuse of products like E20 just might be part of the reason why apples always seem to hit the top of the Dirty Dozen list (pesticide-laden foods).

I would agree that using E20 twice with years between treatments is highly unlikely to cause resistance. Unfortunately, the resistant species are already out there, and what if they're able to 'share' the genetic information for success (resistance) as effectively as bacteria can? Not just between individual bacteria, but between species they can do this. That's part of the possible broader impact I'm talking about. What if the PM that infects apples can 'share' that resistance code with the PM that infects cucurbits?

Not to mention, it's not labeled for use on anything we smoke, and IIRC napthalene is a problem if it's lit (I'll have to look at my E20 label again to be sure, I thought it had a warning on the MSDS about ignition of one or more of the ingredients being a problem). At this point, if we're talking about a product that's going to likely be smoked, it really seems to me that we should not be looking to fruits and vegetables for appropriate corollaries, but to tobacco.

Doesn't that make more sense? Maybe I'm taking the wrong tack, but it just makes more sense to me.

***EDIT***

Perusing the MSDS I find this, which doesn't have a 'feel good' kinda ring to it.

SARA 313 INFORMATION: This product contains the following substances subject to the reporting requirements of Section 313 of Titl III of the Superfund Amendments and Reauthorization Act of 1986 and 40 CFR Part 372:

CHEMICAL NAME || CAS NUMBER || CONCENTRATION
| MYCLOBUTANIL || 088671-89-0 || 19.7%
| NAPHTHALENE || 000091-20-3 || 3.68%

SARA HAZARD CATEGORY: This product has been reviewed according to the EPA "Hazard Categories" promulgated under Sections 311 and 312 of the Superfund Amendment and Reauthorization Act of 1986 (SARA Title III) and is considered, under applicable definitions, to meet the following categories:
An immediate health hazard
A delayed health hazard

If you take the time to read Section 15 in its entirety, you'll see that it falls under California's Proposition 65 reporting requirements, and you'll see what substances cause reproductive harm and what substances cause... wait for it...






















wait for it....


































wait for it...!




















Cancer.

But that's not all, and California isn't the only state that seriously restricts use of this product. Just read the MSDS for yourself, get yourself to Section 15. This stuff isn't good for us, not as far as I can tell, nor is it 'harmless'.

 

[Weird]

lol its not harmless look at all the links i provided

dig deep enough ever trial and test has its data available for analysis

if you look at the test trials on rodents you will see MYCLOBUTANIL enlarges the liver and causes liver dysfunction

now think about the people who have med scripts and go to dispensaries

but lets spearhead why these guys don't care

they don't care because they don't understand, so much so that they won't attempt to, it's easier to rationalize "what i don't know won't hurt me"

the same ignorance applies to their knowledge of cannabis, their grow styles hinge on particular techniques that use particular products and methods.

they don't have a complete understanding of even basic plant nutrition thus the need for someone else to formulate it for them

same goes for genetics, most everyone is growing someone else gear.

Don't need to know how to breed to sow a seed.

not that this is bad per say but what you do get a ton of is guys getting a marginal grow or two under their belt and all of a sudden they are gangster master croppers who know it all

LOL what a fucking joke seriously


you guys can fluff each other all day long but the truth remains

you dont have the skills to grow without the use of eagle20

PERIOD

and your weak egos control you so much that you can't even keep from telling the world you can't grow without it

then again most of your games would collapse if you didn't have hydro shops and collectives and seed banks to complete you

lol custy is as custy do

 

[Mia]

No, the problem is everyone wants to preach from their agenda book without looking at the facts objectively. You cannot separate your feelings from your reason.

 

[SeaMaiden]

I've provided the MSDS, as well as quoted a portion of the section that deals specifically with what we're discussing. Several states restrict its use due to toxicity and carcinogenicity issues. It falls under SARA restrictions.

These are facts, hopefully presented objectively. There are other problems associated with misuse of this product, which I've discussed here and elsewhere, hopefully objectively.

People feel passionate about some things, they begin to take them to heart. Others feel defensive and must be able to, cognitively, maintain their positions. I was at that point regarding powdery mildew causing problems in humans, because I had a belief and wanted to prove myself correct. Then I found I couldn't prove myself as correct as I thought I was. I had a choice, I can either deny it and deride it as a ridiculous notion, or I can continue to search for information, even if it challenges my own ideas.

 

[Weird]

No, the problem is everyone wants to preach from their agenda book without looking at the facts objectively. You cannot separate your feelings from your reason.

the links to all the EVIDENCE is not my emotion speaking

from the company that makes it to the toxicology reports on the individual ingredients

let me spell it out for you in simple terms since the science avoids you

there are no feelings just testimony from observational experience

in over 20 years (opps i really need to minus one for bad behavior) and an average of 5 pulls a year I haven't had the need to use toxic fungicides

trust me been there done that

so very sound reason and experience says you don't need eagle20 indoors

if you can't accept that because you can't grow indoors without eagle20 then that is on you

it gets tiring hearing a bunch of dudes who represent the same community I am a part of, who can't grow indoor pot free of PM without the use of a toxic fungicide talk absolute shit to people who can grow successful without it

this is why you guys have to by someone else's understanding packaged in fancy containers at hydro shops to grow weed

see essential your custies cause you NEED other peoples products to grow weed because your not willing to bridge the gap with understanding

and whats worse is your egos are too big to even let in the notion you dont have to be

keep marginalizing your own understanding

keep telling yourself you need your eagle20

keep showing people the limit of your ability to understand and you capacity for integrity