Distinguished and Nurtured Kind

[dank.frank]

@Gmanwho - Not yet. I'll get on that though. It's still in the box.

@Nickman - the difference between the two - soil and old rooting hormone vs rapid rooters and new rooting hormone. It'll be okay. Plug and play is the name of this game.

I agree I'm going to need a transitional period before flipping plants to flower. I have a plan to address this issue when I expand things a bit. I need the plants to be ready to flip, in the style in which I want them, immediately upon transplant to flower.

Just took a bunch of cuts. Everything went into my sterilized cloning/seedling media with CloneX gel as the hormone. I'll see this time if the issue all along was just the hormone. I suspect that will be the case.

16 - Mochiesel #9
8 - London Loud #4
16 - London Loud #9
4 - London Loud #8
12 - London Loud #2


That's 56 healthy cuts taken from the lower canopy. I'm sure I tossed at least another 20 branches that weren't viable for anything. That's right about the same number of removals I had last round when running things under a SCROG.

All in all things are looking good. I'm not too worried.

I'll be sure to allow these clones a transitional period to expand their roots before putting directly under 12/12. I'll have a slight advantage this time though, because I should know what the stretch is going to be.



dank.Frank

 

[genetic freaked]

It always amazes me when you have a complete jungle and then you strip the lowers to find out you have a lot more room then you thought.
Things are looking really good and healthy

 

[White Beard]

@nickman - Seeds. See the difference between being a nerdy canna botanist and a capitalist, is I only want to hang 100 more lights so I can see more expressions so I can make better pairings and create - I'm not much interested in the capital side of things. The worst part about having a garden truly sized to personal needs, is it doesn't leave much room for exploration.

That - and when you start spending time with someone else who smokes, that supply vanishes much faster. I didn't ration this last harvest very well, especially considering I'm a full 4 months, a full harvest behind. I'll be out of weed by the end of the week. I'll probably smoke the last bong rip when I flip things to 12/12 on Sunday. Seems an appropriate time.

No fear. I have budder in the pressure cooker as I'm typing this.

Speaking my language again, Frank (still?); over this last year, when I have been digging deep and thinking long here, I find myself contemplating the building of an entire grow-house. I know, extreme, right? But I know a 30”x30” tent will only be an opening shot, and I can’t afford to waste ammo or misfire, so everything has to work in concert, step by step.

An acre in the deep woods I can swing, with help, and I’m perfectly willing to camp out until I can frame and weather a 30x40-foot shell (we don’t have winter here anymore, and there’s no longer a rainy season). I will not be able to grow until then, but a 32x32-inch tent & CMH/SILED will be a good starting footprint...however, I’m planning for moms, I’m planning for dads (*must* make save and use pollen: can’t throw away those genetics), I’m planning for isolation chambers; currently modeling ideas for an “open-pollination” room. I know I’ll never be able to grow ALL the different kinds of weed I want to try, or breed with, or just preserve, but I know *me*.

I want options, I want THOSE options: and I’m willing to do without and to work hard to achieve it. Growing cannabis is literally a lifelong dream - since I started collecting seed in the hippie heyday - and just about the only thing I care about, besides my friends. It is, frankly, my number one priority.

So I had a chuckle over you talking about the hundred lights, seeing the eagerness of your curiosity, and hearing your indifference to commercial applications. My situation would be vastly improved by moving the occasional QP, it’s true, but I’m more motivated to see my friends - and me - get medicine, and to deepen my relationship with the plant. No tell, no smell, no sell...a wise rule to be guided by.

As usual, thanks for everything, Frank!

 

[Chili_berkster]

I was just checking out your pics and the plants are looking good. I wanted to ask, What's up with the mac 10 clone? I noticed in a thread at one time you may have had it. Not heard you mention it much. Just curious and figured you would know. I aint looking to score it, just wanted to know a little more about it. Looks like a purple gg4 x gdp or something. Probably mostly hype is my guess.

 

[GOT_BUD?]

Speaking my language again, Frank (still?); over this last year, when I have been digging deep and thinking long here, I find myself contemplating the building of an entire grow-house. I know, extreme, right? But I know a 30”x30” tent will only be an opening shot, and I can’t afford to waste ammo or misfire, so everything has to work in concert, step by step.

An acre in the deep woods I can swing, with help, and I’m perfectly willing to camp out until I can frame and weather a 30x40-foot shell (we don’t have winter here anymore, and there’s no longer a rainy season). I will not be able to grow until then, but a 32x32-inch tent & CMH/SILED will be a good starting footprint...however, I’m planning for moms, I’m planning for dads (*must* make save and use pollen: can’t throw away those genetics), I’m planning for isolation chambers; currently modeling ideas for an “open-pollination” room. I know I’ll never be able to grow ALL the different kinds of weed I want to try, or breed with, or just preserve, but I know *me*.

I want options, I want THOSE options: and I’m willing to do without and to work hard to achieve it. Growing cannabis is literally a lifelong dream - since I started collecting seed in the hippie heyday - and just about the only thing I care about, besides my friends. It is, frankly, my number one priority.

So I had a chuckle over you talking about the hundred lights, seeing the eagerness of your curiosity, and hearing your indifference to commercial applications. My situation would be vastly improved by moving the occasional QP, it’s true, but I’m more motivated to see my friends - and me - get medicine, and to deepen my relationship with the plant. No tell, no smell, no sell...a wise rule to be guided by.

As usual, thanks for everything, Frank!

Hear! Hear!

 

[forest.]

Great stuff!

 

[dank.frank]

An update is coming!


But until I post that...something interesting to discuss.


Sherbinski always said Sunset Sherbet was Thin Mint Girl Scout Cookies x "Pink Panties".


Well, of course, no one knows WTF "pink panties" is genetically, but he called it that because it threw pink pistils. (which is not necessarily uncommon in certain genetic lines, such as Burmese or Cherry Bomb)


Well, Mochi = a Gelato selection. Gelato = feminized Thin Mint GSC Bx1.


Mochiesel #9

dank.Frank

 

[genetic freaked]

Show us the legs on that girl DF

 

[GOT_BUD?]

Show us the legs on that girl DF

PERV!

<furiously hammers F5

 

[blazeoneup]

Shaman from dutch passion was one of the few strains I've grown that threw out pink pistil pheno to bad they never cure out to pink.

 

[CannaRed]

I've seen pink late in bloom outdoors, but like you said never stays thru cure.

 

[Hammerhead]

has any ever got pink on indoor plants?

 

[GOT_BUD?]

I recall seeing them here on IC, but not very often.

Though thinking back it might have been lighting related.

 

[blazeoneup]

has any ever got pink on indoor plants?

Yes the shaman I am referring to were pink on indoor runs. But again never cured out to pink. My experience is the pink always ends up a orange color after a cure, no matter how bright pink it was during the grow I've never seen a pink pistil cure to remain pink.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

I had a reefermans sour d that had nice pinks and purples and oranges and reds. Was some of the prettiest flowers I have seen.

 

[Hammerhead]

Yes the shaman I am referring to were pink on indoor runs. But again never cured out to pink. My experience is the pink always ends up a orange color after a cure, no matter how bright pink it was during the grow I've never seen a pink pistil cure to remain pink.

Interesting, I've always thought it was specific to sun grown outdoor.. Ive asked this question many times. Never got a reply they seen it indoor.

 

[dank.frank]

I can say 100% without any concerns it has absolutely nothing to do with being indoor or outdoor - or the lighting spectrum. It's genetic. I've seen this before on indoor and outdoor plants of the same variety.

If it was a result of the lighting, I'd see the same thing on other plants, but that is not the case. It is just something that I happened to find interesting, because the only possible genetic linkage in this particular hybrid is the "Pink Panties" cut that was used to make Sunset Sherbet. If for no other reason, it's fair to say the pink pistils is likely more recessive considering you don't see that trait on the Thin Mint GSC cut or the Sunset Sherbet cut. You figure that would be even more lost once the Sour D Bx2 entered the equation.

It's just an interesting pheno, considering I had it picked out as being the most Sour leaning plant in the bunch.

It should be noted, London Loud #9 is going to be a keeper. No doubt about it. The resin quality on this plant is super tacky already. While younger resin tends to be more watery/oily in it's composition, this is straight sticky icky. You can easily hear your fingers sticking together - for 20 days in, that is a great sign. She also has great trichome field density - she seems to be stacking fairly well also.

I looked back at my notes and I must have known she was worth keeping an eye on. I had her labeled as "zig-zag Sour" with an asterisk by it. The heavy zig-zag of the meristem being worthy of note because that is a trait I often identify with chem line genetics - and Sour D is certainly an extension of that gene pool.

I was a bit disappointed when I only got to plant 3 of that particular pheno to root - and then one of those 3 never really grew right so it was removed from the bed. That leaves me with 2 of the Loud #9 in this round of flower and a back up mother...

I was however able, to get 16 cuts off those two plants when I thinned out the lowers at the end of the first week. I focused mostly on cuts of Mochiesel #9 and London Loud #9 in that tray - 16 of each. I'd say that was a good decision at this point.

Those cuts...are well... over two weeks old at this point and more than half the tray has strong, white, fuzzy roots that are getting longer and longer. The blue glow you see in this photo is from the Mars Hydro EpiStar 160 - with just it's veg mode lights on. It's been my veg light since it arrived, but only for plants that weren't going directly into flower. All things in flower, have been under the HGLED XB200 since they broke their seed shells, as per the agreement.

These clones are in my personal clone/seedling mix - with the new CloneX gel as the rooting hormone. Things are HEALTHY and ready to be transplanted.

I'm considering an expansion and hanging the 2 x 315w up just because I have the plant numbers to run another bed - and if I get creative, I can make the extra space exist.

The bed itself is doing fantastic. I couldn't be happier with plant health at the moment. Although, this round has really gotten away from being a SOG - and I really need to get a screen in place to hold this jungle up...

(You'll have to disregard the funny red/pink hue to the picture. It's really odd how a camera interprets this light spectrum. IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE THIS IN PERSON. It really is a much more white light with a very slight pink hue to it in person. That hue is not even apparent when standing directly near/under the lights.)

Temps with the 2 x XB200 can climb quickly when I take the door off and remove the circulation fan. The panels are warm to the touch, but not nearly as hot as a HID lamp. Temps will creep to 82-84 at their peek but have been staying generally around 74-78 with lights on and 63-68 with lights off. Humidity has been more of an issue in terms of keeping it steady. The large soil volume can make it hard to tell when to water or how much to water. I've learned from the last two rounds when humidity drops below 35% it's time to give them water. If it gets to 30% the bed is pretty much dry. When fully saturated or just watered, humidity will jump to 65-70%. When holding steady, and the door is in place and all fans going, it tends to hold more steady around 54-58% - which really, is fairly ideal for early flower and trying to encourage rapid growth.

I will need to keep an eye on things as we get later into flower and buds start to swell. IF they swell. I'm still not 100% sold on these LED lights. They are growing healthy plants, but I need the numbers as well. For what it costs to produce, I really need to hit that 1# per lamp mark. I know it's a BIG challenge for such a small space under such small wattage - but - I'm not convinced it's impossible.

The metal duct tape that never sticks to anything like it should - sits right at 4' from the floor. That gives you a bit of a perspective of size of the plants. The soil surface of the bed sits about 16" high. Which makes our ladies roughly 28-32" tall right now. I've been raising the lights periodically to encourage stretch a bit more, and not keeping the HGLED panels as close as recommended by the manufacturer. The plants are currently about 8-10" from the panels, as they have continued to stretch - so it will be time to raise that to about 14" again. I don't want them to stay so compact the flowers bunch up at internodes as opposed to stretching evenly across the meristem. With bulky flowers, that compression and poor stacking creates heavy moisture spots for bud rot to set in later in flower - I want to avoid that entirely.

----------------------------

NOW - the big question - THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: defoliation.

In the past when using larger HID systems, I've always spoken out against stripping of fan leaves. They are the power reactor of the plant - they absorb sunlight and launch all biochemical processes the plant needs. These leaves are NEEDED to fuel growth of large flower sets. (this has always been my stance)

New technology - small wattage - different penetration levels - It's time for me to ensure I don't cripple my potential yield / quality metric by leaving too much larf or by not using some defoliation and then accidentally stripping bud sites that could have produced a viable frosty nugget of delight.

At this point, I'm look at defoliation as: removing all fan leaves that are directly attached to the meristem. These of course, are the biggest/largest leaves the plant will have and produce - the fan blades that come off the secondary growth, which produces flowers, never seem to get a sizeable.

Comments welcome.



dank.Frank

 

[Ibechillin]

In Gavita's editorial on LED lighting they recommend increasing feed strength ~25% due to the significantly lower Infrared output not heating leaf surfaces inducing rapid transpiration as well as increased rate of photosynthesis from more efficient spectrum, room temp ~84F is considered ideal under LED to match the leaf surface temperature and transpiration rates experienced under HPS (red petioles in that pic you shared is why I posted).

448g from a 200w fixture is like hunting bigfoot, I wish you luck!

 

[Hammerhead]

Ive seen pics of different strains with pink/purple pistils but all where outdoor plants. I've never had any myself. There is a thread here on some. This Lebanese is gorgeous.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=339783

 

[dank.frank]

@Ibechillin - An elbow is 454 grams on my side of the street. Damn dealers always keeping that extra.

I appreciate your comments on higher feed levels and such. It's something I think I've noticed a lot more in veg than in flower. In part, using old tired soil when I first vegged these plants out - which resulted in not the healthiest clones / cuts - which resulted in lots of failed cuts and sluggish growth when finally getting treated properly.

My soil bed is HEAVILY amended. NPK values are 740-1110-945 - which is far, far beyond anything I have ever seen anyone recommend for any plant. Ever. Soil reports that don't take into consideration the availability rates / break down periods of the various amendments show the available ions to be through the roof and I get told no plant could grow in such a "hot" mix. I know for a fact this is not the case.

I'll admit though, I've been watching the purple petioles myself and wondering if they aren't getting enough phosphorous. It's week 3. Normally, if I was in a 3 or 5 gallon container - I'd be giving them a couple extra feedings of P/K/Ca/Mg during weeks 3 and 5, just to push them along and act as a trigger/signal to kick it into high gear. I've wondering if doing so in this instance would clear this up.

The other possibility - the plants just aren't demanding it yet and are growing exactly as they should, considering I know the soil technically has everything they need and it should be biologically available at their disposal.

Really great insight on the temps as well. I'm not 100% sure what their spectrum is, that they claim is causing this differentiation in behavior, but if they are using the same white LEDs as everyone else it's just a 4000k spectrum. I'd not call that "full spectrum" by any means, but rather, a middle of the range, all in one, sort of approach, as opposed to running a spectrum that caters to one end of the range or the other, such as HPS/MH. I still think the 3100k(r) CMH spectrum is the best I've ever worked under. I'm blown away by the output and quality of those tiny 315w bulbs.

I was getting close to that 2# goal the last cycle under 2 x 315w (26oz). The 200w HGLED were supposed to be comparable to the performance of a 400w HPS. HGLED's largest board is the XB400 and it is supposed to be a 1kw replacement. Well, 2 x XB200 = 1 XB400 - which theoretically puts me right back in the range of 1kw HPS expectations...ie 2# per lamp. I know that is a lot of projection taking place, sure, but that doesn't change to end goal. There has to be some sort of metric upon which to give an honest review of these HGLED quantum boards.

@Chili_B - Brother, MAC1 comes from Capitulator. It's "Miracle Alien Cookies" and aside from that, I'm not entirely sure what she is. Hate to admit it - but she got some sort of stem rot infection or something, even when completely dried out. Her stem got moldy at the base and just never healed. She slowly but surely browned off and died no matte what I did to her. Just not a healthy plant on my end, so she was culled. I'll have to try and get her back at some point, because I'd like to see what she is all about. She's pretty, if nothing else.

Truth is though, I have so many seeds, I'm looking for something NEW NEW.



dank.Frank