grassott's dad
Member
Things look good from recent posters. I'll post some fresh pics soon.
Yes Keef, welcome back big man, we missed you
Things look good from recent posters. I'll post some fresh pics soon.
On the left is the general structure and condition on a new bud placement. On the right is result after a few weeks. The logical formula for veg time is equal to the bud time. A system based on this replacement formula over a 8-10 week span will yield the largest plants. In states that limit your plant count, this is the obvious strategy for maximizing one's compliant yield. Allowing 8-10 weeks of veg produces some amazing branching and siting if defoliation is ruthlessly practiced.
Growers should be patient with their veg cycle. Once you place a candidate in bud there is no turning back. It better be built or you will have a disappointing yield. My candidates have more than a dozen well developed branches each with many sites and sub-branching.
While defoliation can be practiced in any type of grow arrangement I will confine my focus to large plants getting plenty of veg time. I consider veg time to be the most crucial part of growing. Take it seriously to get the big yields shown in the gallery. Fully one pound plants can be grown in 32" spacing and height. Intensive defoliation and training in veg is how this is accomplished. The veg candidate will get weekly defoliations. Budding plants get it bi-weekly. I like to allow leaves to emerge and size up between defol sessions in the bud tunnel.
it works well to remove the actual bud sites on lower branches but leaving the fan leaf.
so you get no larf but still the benefit of the solar panel called a sun leaf
Here is what I just did. I had been feeding with a fairly constant EC and nutrient regimen, and when they plants got near week 3 since 12/12, I noticed the EC climbed for the first time. Read this advice from a spectacular grower who said the increase of EC is a sign of reduced nitrogen intake. Seems to be a sign the stretch is over in a sense. So, I just started off fans at the start of the leaf, trying to imagine how they would block light. I've always thought the explanation that removing leaf allows for more direct sun light to the buds was too simple to be true, but I'm now operating under that mentality. With so much foliage on this acapulco gold X cinderella 99 cross I just decided to cut off anything that was showing signs of suboptimal health or were of a large size or would prevent dirt light penetrating from my vertical bulb.
Before
After
With only a 600w bulb, I'm surprised at the structure of flowers towards the bottom of the plant already and I'm just going on a hunch that I should leave larger fan leafs on towards the bottom for more surface area to absorb the smaller amounts of light. I cut off the nodes towards the very bottom of the plant in veg so I'm going to leave everything else on... except the two flower tips I accidentally cut off.
I'm doing a side-by-side with a mother plant and her clone at the link in my signature with pertaining to how much leaf should be removed and with regards to the age/size/structure of the plant.
keef, hoping you can throw some info on me here. I'm so glad you stopped in on this thread again. I have a few questions.
1. Having done a couple major trimmings during veg, then letting them grow out. As you get near when you want to flip, where do you want your foliage level at? It seems if you have a thick regrown canopy a little counter productive since you wont defoliate again until after stretch. Is this right? I just flipped 36 hrs ago, but did light defol a few days before. I didnt see anything specific that I could find that addresses this.
2. During stretch, before doing another major defoliation (at end of stretch), remove selective LARGE fans that are obviously shading such as pic #1 & #2 below?
3. I had to wait till harvest to move this grow into tent. As such, even though I topped, I still have 17-20" plants. A couple are not well trained and 4-stalking straight up with shorter side branches. I'm going to reach my height limitations in tent with stretch I'm sure (so glad I have LED so they dont get burned). As a preventive measure would you suggest supper cropping and if so can I still do this in early flower to send them where I want?
I know I overdid height in veg. I was limited by not being able to get them into flower room and space available to go wider in veg room (closet). My biggest concerns are height and overcrowding in my 4x4 tent once they bulk up and I am able to get them wide.
Hi Keef. Very informative post as usual. If you're vegging with weak cfl lights in the winter (temps a tad colder than ideal) would you still recommend defoliation?
Next round don't fret about height in veg, just defoliate and train them down to a proper height. This round just deal with them as they demand. they are not optimum but that's what you got for this round. You cannot overdo vegging. As I just posted, take veg seriously with intensive training to get plants looking like these...24" without cutting mainstem. Defoliating continuously will force them to branch and create numerous budsites. Do not fear bending. Do it aggressively if plants are shooting upwards.
When you get to a space that accommodates spreading out those individuals you can splay them, lower the lights accordingly and really watch those bottoms blow up...and the tops too. Creating a net or other support structure is key to training.
Great looking plants. Good job.
2 months ago I wouldnt bend. I didnt know how and was afraid to hurt them. Now I bend and tweek to 90 degrees even. I little slip knot with string will do wonders to holding them up till they heal in a few days.
Keef, if you look back at my pics, would you say I should have topped more then and trained outwards?
My gut feeling on my current grow is it's headed in the right direction for my first time and as a newer grower (this is only my 2nd grow). These girls are in their 1st 3 days of flower, so for now I am only taking really big fan leaves off and tucking/bending. Am I correct in thinking no major defoliation until stretch is over in about 3 weeks then hit em hard. And again hit em hard at 45 days with strategic clippings in between?
Thanks for looking. I'm glad I read this thread.
Edit: Bending during stretch is ok right?
Thanks k33f
Putting up my string has compacted the structure, but more buds are closer to the light now. I use the plant itself as netting often, haha. Throughout all stages of growth if I spot a node hiding in the shade, I'll find somewhere to tuck it so it might get some light. I really should have boosted 2 of the plants to the height of the other one, but I kinda forgot about doin that.
String for chalk lines. Soft, slick, and you can tie a knot onto another string and it'll slide around, but still hold up the buds. Then pipe cleaners and bondage.
6 days into 12/12.
I am only doing strategic removal now until stretch is over. Mostly just a fan here or there that directly shades a but site below it.
I'm trying to focus more of my attention on bending to get the width needed and light below after I strip em at end of stretch.
this technique works!
the majority haters of defoliation style techniques are usually more educated than experienced... in my experience anyways.
keep deleafing!!!!!
I'm about 12 days or so into 12/12. I know I need to do some more bending.
But I am concerned about so many big ass fans. We've got 10-14 more days before stretch comes near an end and I wasn't planning on stripping until then. But it seems like now I probably should.
So that's my question, Strip em down some? Then bend of course.
Pic 1 is entire tent look
Pic 2 is one tub, 3 plants
Pic 3 is the furthest from light plant in front tub, a bit lower than the others.
Pic 4 is mostly 1 plant in tub 1 from above.
Pic 5 is a side view of front tub.
Pic 6 is the back tub. The arrow points to the top of the shortest-furthest from light.
Pic 7 is interesting, The closest point is a lateral bent branch, while the rest is all upper branching tops and main tops.
Pic 8 is a side view of same plant.