SrPlantManager
Member
Hey Abbie! How goes it?
I must admit, I love this thread, as it spurs sometimes quite heated debate. The way I see that's a good thing.
As far as PB's issue with Obama, the only thing we can expect our new prez to do is accept MMJ. But to my understanding, that would have to be done on a state-by-state leve, yes? With the Federalies stance on cannabis, I see it highly unlikely that they will adopt MMJ across the board, so I believe the best we can hope for is state by state acceptance. IF/WHEN the day comes MMJ is legalized across the us, maybe then something can be done on the 'cure' end of things without worry of govt retribution. And that's a big maybe. I just don't see our govt accepting ANYTHING for a cure for anything. The asshats on capitol hill, the senate, congress, etc are paid well by SIG's and lobbyists for big pharma to keep cannabis illegal JUST for the reason of profits. They don't give a damn about ppl dying,... now or ever.
It kinda brings us to a kunundrum of sorts,.. an immovable force meeting an immovable object. Who is going to give?
While I will continue to fight the good fight, I see that we will, for a very long time, have to continue our reaserch and recreation with cannabis covertly, keeping in the shadows to save our own freedom. I just don't see Obama getting involved in the issue at all. Maybe I'm wrong... I hope I am wrong, but I'm prepared to continue to do the best I can to spread the good word until my dying day.
I just can't see taxpayers allowing the eternal waste of our OWN money on a war that can never be won.
Can we???
In the begining of the Iraq war, The Great Shrub had a good bit of public approval, but as time passed, and more and more began to see the ravages of that war, and inevitably, after the winless aspect of a losing battle began to set into the American consciousness, he lost support. It took less than 7 years (or so) for that to happen. It took the loss of over 4000 or so lives.
This 'war on pot' was started by Nixon in the early 70's, and nearly 40 years later, FORTY YEARS! And likely trillions of dollars since the start of that 'war', we still fight it.
For me, it begs the question, "how much longer will this madness continue". Or better yet "how much longer CAN it continue"?
Is this insanity curable?
I must admit, I love this thread, as it spurs sometimes quite heated debate. The way I see that's a good thing.
As far as PB's issue with Obama, the only thing we can expect our new prez to do is accept MMJ. But to my understanding, that would have to be done on a state-by-state leve, yes? With the Federalies stance on cannabis, I see it highly unlikely that they will adopt MMJ across the board, so I believe the best we can hope for is state by state acceptance. IF/WHEN the day comes MMJ is legalized across the us, maybe then something can be done on the 'cure' end of things without worry of govt retribution. And that's a big maybe. I just don't see our govt accepting ANYTHING for a cure for anything. The asshats on capitol hill, the senate, congress, etc are paid well by SIG's and lobbyists for big pharma to keep cannabis illegal JUST for the reason of profits. They don't give a damn about ppl dying,... now or ever.
It kinda brings us to a kunundrum of sorts,.. an immovable force meeting an immovable object. Who is going to give?
While I will continue to fight the good fight, I see that we will, for a very long time, have to continue our reaserch and recreation with cannabis covertly, keeping in the shadows to save our own freedom. I just don't see Obama getting involved in the issue at all. Maybe I'm wrong... I hope I am wrong, but I'm prepared to continue to do the best I can to spread the good word until my dying day.
I just can't see taxpayers allowing the eternal waste of our OWN money on a war that can never be won.
Can we???
In the begining of the Iraq war, The Great Shrub had a good bit of public approval, but as time passed, and more and more began to see the ravages of that war, and inevitably, after the winless aspect of a losing battle began to set into the American consciousness, he lost support. It took less than 7 years (or so) for that to happen. It took the loss of over 4000 or so lives.
This 'war on pot' was started by Nixon in the early 70's, and nearly 40 years later, FORTY YEARS! And likely trillions of dollars since the start of that 'war', we still fight it.
For me, it begs the question, "how much longer will this madness continue". Or better yet "how much longer CAN it continue"?
Is this insanity curable?
Last edited:
G
guest
An interesting thing about the federal CSA .. most, if not all, state CSA's are built to automatically update whenever the federal one changes.
If the fed changes, then mmj is here nationwide.
If the fed changes, then mmj is here nationwide.
SweetNightmare
Active member
Seriously... I'm just thinking they needed to pickup their last pay checks before getting the boot... isn't war profiteering illegal?
CLDBD
Member
I'm sorry brother I did not read the entire thread although I posted earlier in this or the other thread that read the same. I just wanted to touch on one point. It is the light they paint the drug in. A light that the genpop understands and will back. That is the problem if marijuana keeps getting bad press then the people will vote it down. In AK allot of what we do goes on. There is nothing else to do up there. Yet campaigns were run based on fear. Carbon copies of previous propaganda shorts. And guess what? Even though the signing of the petition went so well to get it on the ballot the people voted it down in overwhelming fashion. It is because a broad stroke was painted with false evidence or just outright lies. And the people instead of investigating or educating themselves just choose what they saw on tv. It is sad. We are in a losing fight. I think it is going to take a real revolutionary moment or moments to change this. We have to get the information out there or it's hopeless. Why do you think it has been demonized for so long? We have to change minds to change votes. That is going to be hard since all of society has been fed the anti line since birth. It can be done but it is going to take more than just claiming we want the freedom to do what we choose. Or even the medical aspect of it because frankly the gov does not care if you are sick. We have to hit em where it counts in the pocketbook. I think the financial benefit they will reap with just the taxes alone without even adding in the possibility of government control over growing will be the winning argument of the day. When that day will be I don't know.
SrPlantManager
Member
That's a valid point, CLDBD
Now getting the people in power that matter to listen and comprehend just how much CAN be made on taxes alone.
Recently in the 'Marijuana Inc' spot done on CNBC, as those that watched will remember, the owner of Blue Sky Coffeeshop, a modest disepsary located in Mendocino Cali, stated he was paying the feds over a 1/2 a million dollars a year alone in taxes, over a 1/4 million in STATE taxes yearly. That's just ONE dispensary. When you look at the size of Cali, and the number of dispensaries there, I'm going to guess modestly at 10, that's 5 million in fed and 1.5 mil in state taxes. Considering there maybe many more than just 10 dispensaries in the state, and many will be smaller or larger than Blue Sky, those number will jump accordingly.that's JUST California. 5 mil fed, 1.5 state. If every state had the same, that would be an annual tax reward to the feds of a QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS just in taxes generated alone in a year. I'm sure those numbers are quite conservative too.
But even then, the pharma lobbyists are paying much more to keep it off the federal radar.
Even so, when you think about the tax money in it's self, look at the amount of revenue that tax money came from that's pumped into each states economy yearly. California wouldn't be in the financial straits they're currently in. Likely our national economy would feel the benefits of JUST med MJ. The agricultural supply aspect would also likely see a good boom, thus pumping even more money into each states economy. Also, there would be more docs issuing lots of med cards, at $50-$150 a pop. Plus with that many 'sedate' buzzed people, crime could even likely show a drop. In turn that would open the doors for DEA to work a little harder at stemming the tide of hard drug manufacture, smuggling and sales, like crack, powder cocaine, meth, heroin, etc etc.
It's also important to note that today, many younger drug users are abusing prescription narcotics, but you don't see ANYONE looking to ban those side-effect laden drugs. Or even working that much harder at education on how to keep them out of the hands of the unauthorized.
It should also be noted the amounts of money that would be saved from prosecuting cannabis users numbering in the 3/4 of a million yearly. Less strain on the legal system, less spent on housing and feeding cannabis users as well. I'm sure that figure would exceed BILLIONS
Now, shall we get down to verifying some of these numbers? I'm willing to bet most if not all of them fall on the conservative side of things.
Plus I'm sure there's alot I missing. Like the industrial side of cannabis and the money that can save, as well as generate a relatively large number of jobs.
How hard would it be to generate a myth/fact sheet on the aspects of MMJ?
How hard would it be to also generate a financial statement of potential MMJ capital generation?
Just thinking here...
Now getting the people in power that matter to listen and comprehend just how much CAN be made on taxes alone.
Recently in the 'Marijuana Inc' spot done on CNBC, as those that watched will remember, the owner of Blue Sky Coffeeshop, a modest disepsary located in Mendocino Cali, stated he was paying the feds over a 1/2 a million dollars a year alone in taxes, over a 1/4 million in STATE taxes yearly. That's just ONE dispensary. When you look at the size of Cali, and the number of dispensaries there, I'm going to guess modestly at 10, that's 5 million in fed and 1.5 mil in state taxes. Considering there maybe many more than just 10 dispensaries in the state, and many will be smaller or larger than Blue Sky, those number will jump accordingly.that's JUST California. 5 mil fed, 1.5 state. If every state had the same, that would be an annual tax reward to the feds of a QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS just in taxes generated alone in a year. I'm sure those numbers are quite conservative too.
But even then, the pharma lobbyists are paying much more to keep it off the federal radar.
Even so, when you think about the tax money in it's self, look at the amount of revenue that tax money came from that's pumped into each states economy yearly. California wouldn't be in the financial straits they're currently in. Likely our national economy would feel the benefits of JUST med MJ. The agricultural supply aspect would also likely see a good boom, thus pumping even more money into each states economy. Also, there would be more docs issuing lots of med cards, at $50-$150 a pop. Plus with that many 'sedate' buzzed people, crime could even likely show a drop. In turn that would open the doors for DEA to work a little harder at stemming the tide of hard drug manufacture, smuggling and sales, like crack, powder cocaine, meth, heroin, etc etc.
It's also important to note that today, many younger drug users are abusing prescription narcotics, but you don't see ANYONE looking to ban those side-effect laden drugs. Or even working that much harder at education on how to keep them out of the hands of the unauthorized.
It should also be noted the amounts of money that would be saved from prosecuting cannabis users numbering in the 3/4 of a million yearly. Less strain on the legal system, less spent on housing and feeding cannabis users as well. I'm sure that figure would exceed BILLIONS
Now, shall we get down to verifying some of these numbers? I'm willing to bet most if not all of them fall on the conservative side of things.
Plus I'm sure there's alot I missing. Like the industrial side of cannabis and the money that can save, as well as generate a relatively large number of jobs.
How hard would it be to generate a myth/fact sheet on the aspects of MMJ?
How hard would it be to also generate a financial statement of potential MMJ capital generation?
Just thinking here...
G
guest
In CA, during 2007 sales of mmj resulted in 170 million in sales tax.
AbbieDoobie
Active member
Today makes the 7th day that peanutbutter has FAILED to have an audience with Obama to convince him to sign legal marijuana as law of the land. PB, don't you realize sick people are dying because you are just sitting there posting on ICMAG? You must take action now! You are our outspoken leader who must take our case to Obama and make the changes those sick and dying people need. Don't you realize that Obama controls all of government? Don't you realize that he don't need Congress to enact laws? Forget checks and balances, he can do anything with the stroke of a pen! Didn't you know that? You have the case studies and all the information needed to convince Obama to sign legal marijuana as law of the land. PB, why have you failed us?
~Abbie
~Abbie
G
guest
Abbie .. Obama doesn't need to enact new laws. All he has to do is order the DEA to obey existing law.
Come on peoples! Obama is not your enemy! Do the research and see how Bush treated the issue. Now what do you think McBush and Palin would have done. Go a seperate rational way or continue with the policies of the last 8 years. We sit at a very precocious time for MMJ and the more negative rep we provide the lawmakers( huge growers making tons of $, The Modesto boys doin rap albums, etc) the harder we will all have in trying to convince that the whole thing is just a thinnly veiled attempt by potheads to get their smoke legalized.
On another side of this I would ask. Do you think this state voters enacted the laws because they felt the real need to help the sick and dying Diabetes and Cancer patients or did they just say you know what I dont see the harm in firing up in my own home after a hard days work? It is not just a community of sick and dying. I bet over 3/4 of the smokers and voters have no valid medical issues to truely qualify under the laws. They also have a voice to be heard and pump more money into the issue than anyone else. What about that guy/gal?
On another side of this I would ask. Do you think this state voters enacted the laws because they felt the real need to help the sick and dying Diabetes and Cancer patients or did they just say you know what I dont see the harm in firing up in my own home after a hard days work? It is not just a community of sick and dying. I bet over 3/4 of the smokers and voters have no valid medical issues to truely qualify under the laws. They also have a voice to be heard and pump more money into the issue than anyone else. What about that guy/gal?
G
guest
Exactly what basis should we present a case for change in federal marijuana policy?
That folks feel like tokin' up?
We, the people, can not directly make this change. We are left to the mercy of the people that we elect.
And at this time there has been no change at all between Bush and Obama. That is within the context of federal marijuana policy. Obama is allowing exactly the same thing that Bush did.
That folks feel like tokin' up?
We, the people, can not directly make this change. We are left to the mercy of the people that we elect.
And at this time there has been no change at all between Bush and Obama. That is within the context of federal marijuana policy. Obama is allowing exactly the same thing that Bush did.
bbing
Active member
Just a fact PB,
clinical phase 2 trials with human subjects has been done on Meth and Opiate addicts. As long as research protocols do not prescribe or provide and only investigate effects of illicit users , it would seem that we should be able to examine existing cannabis using populations as well. The Tashkin meta study is a good example of one we should be spewing everywhere. UCLA (DARC) are heavy hitters ito D&A research. Good 'ol made-in-the-USA research from a well reputed institution would seem to have more bite in terms of it's ability to influence drug policy nationaly.
Also, last year i think SAHMSA or NIDA (or both) funded a multi-million dollar cannabis study that was awarded to UCSD. Anyone here k now the status?
clinical phase 2 trials with human subjects has been done on Meth and Opiate addicts. As long as research protocols do not prescribe or provide and only investigate effects of illicit users , it would seem that we should be able to examine existing cannabis using populations as well. The Tashkin meta study is a good example of one we should be spewing everywhere. UCLA (DARC) are heavy hitters ito D&A research. Good 'ol made-in-the-USA research from a well reputed institution would seem to have more bite in terms of it's ability to influence drug policy nationaly.
Also, last year i think SAHMSA or NIDA (or both) funded a multi-million dollar cannabis study that was awarded to UCSD. Anyone here k now the status?
bbing
Active member
1.That the original classification is made on bad non-valid science.
2.There is abundant valid science that supports declassification
3. This is a Democracy (for sake of argument) and the majority sentiment should be reflected in our laws and policies.
4 That we are no longer willing to accept inaction and the right wing conserva-speak contaminate the water anymore.
5. That our States........fuck.
we've been here a million times before.
Once we learned the Earth is round, we should really adjust some of the science that it predated this knowledge.
G
guest
Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you
I love it when someone like you comes out and starts to list specifics.
Do you understand what I mean when I suggest some degree of substitution should be permitted for existing human application information? We are about thirty years behind on human testing because of government repression.
Medical science could spring forward if they were to spend a little more time looking for such existing data.
Simpson suggests that other methods of consumption, besides eating, produce much lesser results. I believe that he doesn't know why. It's just what he has observed while treating hundreds of people.
I think this is a very valuable clue.
G
guest
Not compelling enough to take action ASAP.Back burner reason.
Not compelling enough to take action ASAP.Back burner reason.
Not compelling enough to take action ASAP. But should be.Back burner reason.
Not compelling enough to take action ASAP.Back burner reason.
Not compelling enough to take action ASAP. Back burner reason.
1500 dead innocent American citizens per day is a compelling front burner reason.
AbbieDoobie
Active member
What existing federal law are you referring to?
Well, the Constitution to start with. It specifically says that any rights not granted to the federal government, in the Constitution, are reserved to the individual States. The federal government tries to get around this vis-a-vis the "Interstate Commerce" clause, but that is specious at best when interstate commerce is not involved - for example MMJ grown in California and sold in a California dispensary.
PC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_law
Yes, that pesky ol' Constitution just may get in the way...if corruption in Politics wasn't so prevalent--
That is where we might get lucky with Obama...he wasn't so much a part of the problem, as he was too young, and not important enough to include--
He might actually start to make a difference...before Uncle Sam (CIA) busts a cap in his ass--
Good points. Nobody is coming down on doctors who obviously over prescribe or drug companies that must be too lax on controlling the flow of their very dangerous drugs. Seems to me it's all about money with them and between our elected officials who don't control these situations for public safety. But heaven forbid you grow a little of that evil marijuana. As long as jackass physicians like Obama's Sonjay Gupta say things like "why do you think they call it dope" we're a long way off. I'd like to hear what Mr Jackass is going to do as SG about the huge problem with kids getting their hands on illegal narcotics. Talk about "dope", I can't wait to see his agenda for the public good. Chances are he'll look like a dope to those that see what's really going on.
When you consider all the money that could be put in the hands of our greedy and wasteful government and concurrently put a dent in the funds organized crime gets from MJ you find it hard to believe they aren't moving forward. OTOH, some would speculate the government- its shadowing branches- make too much money on drugs to do anything that helps "win" the war against drugs.
G
guest
The current federal controlled substance act is in violation of itself.
For a substance to be in schedule 1 it is required to have no "accepted" use in medical practice within the United States.
The Supreme court already ruled that within the controlled substance act "accepted" means by law. CA passed such a law in 1996.
The Supreme court has also ruled that "within the United States" applies even if it is only one single state. It doesn't have to be the majority of states.
Since 1996 marijuana has been illegally classified.
The method to fix that exists within the act itself.
That method is for a reschedule hearing to be conducted.
Today, control of the reschedule process has the DEA as a gatekeeper. They have the ability to stop such a process. Which they have done for years now.
The order that Obama can sign would be to order the DEA to stop blocking this lawful process.
