CMH vs LED vs HPS

[snakedope]

I think there is a sweet spot with light height. Too close and foxtails and light burn.....too far and plants stretch and stunt. I also think a Scrog method would work best atleast with bar LED. I will be experimenting with the scrog netting this spring on my next LED attemp.

LEDs kill plants slowly when they are too close, it's not the amount of light or intensity it's just unhealthy light up close to any living tissue, plants, humans etc
On the other hand, I put my 600w hps in the veg tent now maybe 8 inch from the tops (3 weeks old plants) cuz it's so cold outside, I see no light burn or stress
Maybe some LEDs can be closer if the seperted diodes are lower voltage or different spectrums I've yet to research this further

I suppose I should post this here too. This is the HID isle at the local grow store. Hawthorne is no longer shipping any HID bulbs and I heard hortilux is going out of business.

No related to quality of finished product. More about reality of the situation. View attachment 18807136

This is too true in my country as well, it's global, they are banning those lights, they want to control everything we do their own way, no more medicine, only plastic led flowers, you better stock up on ballasts and bulbs, I know I have.

Is there a correlation between increased calcium consumption and a lowering of certain enzymes, cofactors, or currently unknown cannabinoids (tho-o/thc-p type) that would account for a loss in noticable potency, while still retaining high test numbers under the current framework?

Excellent question, yellow canary is speaking on this subject a lot, worth a reading.
I've always related it to low intensity of LEDs but it can be other factors that are within the plant itself that happen under them, still a lot to research

I'm wondering if the plants excessive need for Calcium under LED lighting is throwing off the natural metabolic process for creating these minor compounds. That coupled with the increased ambient temperature having an effect on the more volatile terpenes.

Something is driving the quality down, my bet is that it's not the same clones people are using or this kind of fert or the other, we are starting to run out of options

 

[bigtacofarmer]

LEDs kill plants slowly when they are too close, it's not the amount of light or intensity it's just unhealthy light up close to any living tissue, plants, humans etc
On the other hand, I put my 600w hps in the veg tent now maybe 8 inch from the tops (3 weeks old plants) cuz it's so cold outside, I see no light burn or stress
Maybe some LEDs can be closer if the seperted diodes are lower voltage or different spectrums I've yet to research this further

This is too true in my country as well, it's global, they are banning those lights, they want to control everything we do their own way, no more medicine, only plastic led flowers, you better stock up on ballasts and bulbs, I know I have.

Excellent question, yellow canary is speaking on this subject a lot, worth a reading.
I've always related it to low intensity of LEDs but it can be other factors that are within the plant itself that happen under them, still a lot to research

Something is driving the quality down, my bet is that it's not the same clones people are using or this kind of fert or the other, we are starting to run out of options

Here is my opinion. Buy a light meter and a laser thermometer to measure leaf temperature. Use new LEDs from within the last few years, and not Amazon knock off models. Use co2 if you do not have an adequate fresh air source. And see if you still dislike LEDs.

 

[Sativafiend1973]

@snakedope , why don't you post pictures? You talk a lot about how you grow excellent weed, yet you post no pictures. Now you say that LEDs are killing plants, with all that you claim, you try to act like you have used LEDs for years, yet you admit that your experience is limited with LEDs. A lot of holes in what you say.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

Also. If the light is to intense you should raise the light.

 

[madalasatori]

I think snakedopes point is that you can post as many pictures or quote us much science but the proof of this pudding is in the smoking and there could well be something going on with LEDs that causes the plants to produce a lower quality high.

Just throwing it out there but it could be that the plants are TOO healthy under LED by the end of their life so the psychoactive effect is less pronounced? Almost like they are unable to ripen fully.. when it comes to effect it’s still a mystery rather than a science

Enjoyable debate!

 

[AceHaze]

I´m using one San light Q5 with about 230 W per m2 and the results are mixed...Some strains like the GG#4 turn out better in quality under LED and others do not so great. I find the plants to grow stockier with smaller but denser buds and some strains produce more sugar leaves, which sucks a bit. Also you can easily burn small plants even with the light at 1 m distance. Without a dimmer to half strength you can watch your young plants turn yellow and die slowly.

So if I was growing in a bigger space again with more wattage I´d use my good old 600w HPS and maybe put the LED in there as additional lighting for some hours a day.

But this is only my expierience with this certain brand, can´t generalize it.

Peace
Ace

 

[Lao Tzu]

With the inability to lower room temperatures in order to maintain leaf temperature, it's akin to doing perpetual summer runs of old.

 

[GoatCheese]

From DeceiverZ’s side-by-side grow thread..

I know the terpene analysis would have been very useful but it was frustratingly skipped this time around. That being said, the COB buds do give off a more potent smell so I assume they are also more favorable than the HPS in this area.

CXB3590 vs MH/HPS vs 650W ChilLED

Here is a chart I found in someones album if it might help -

www.icmag.com

HPS vs Cree CXB3590 cannabinoid lab results:

Cree cobs won.




PS.
Personally, i feel no noticeable difference smoking my keeper cuts HPS vs. my Cree CXB3590 cobs. I get about same sized buds with 75 watts out Cree cob lights than what i got when i used a 250w Osram plantastar HPS in the same small tent. = No going back to using a hps for me.

 

[linde]

From DeceiverZ’s side-by-side grow thread..

CXB3590 vs MH/HPS vs 650W ChilLED

Here is a chart I found in someones album if it might help -

www.icmag.com

HPS vs Cree CXB3590 cannabinoid lab results:

Cree cobs won.




PS.
Personally, i feel no noticeable difference smoking my keeper cuts HPS vs. my Cree CXB3590 cobs. I get about same sized buds with 75 watts out Cree cob lights than what i got when i used a 250w Osram plantastar HPS in the same small tent. = No going back to using a hps for me.

Hate to say but that side by side really wasnt very even. The LEDs are 200w more and COBs 500 watts more than the HPS! And those tiny 6" blockbuster hoods don't throw near the light of a Raptor 8. Of course the Hps will have lower readings. So basically those readings mean nothing if we want to get technical here. We need a side by side with EXACT wattages and optimum Hps hoods and ballasts before anything can be proven....

 

[bigtacofarmer]

Hate to say but that side by side really wasnt very even. The LEDs are 200w more and COBs 500 watts more than the HPS! And those tiny 6" blockbuster hoods don't throw near the light of a Raptor 8. Of course the Hps will have lower readings. So basically those readings mean nothing if we want to get technical here. We need a side by side with EXACT wattages and optimum Hps hoods and ballasts before anything can be proven....

This is why light meters are a thing. You can grow equal quality with lower wattage simply by adjusting the distance from the light. People have been growing great herb under 400, 600 and 1000 watt bulbs for years with no discernable difference aside from canopy penetration and total yield.

 

[linde]

From DeceiverZ’s side-by-side grow thread..

CXB3590 vs MH/HPS vs 650W ChilLED

Here is a chart I found in someones album if it might help -

www.icmag.com

HPS vs Cree CXB3590 cannabinoid lab results:

Cree cobs won.




PS.
Personally, i feel no noticeable difference smoking my keeper cuts HPS vs. my Cree CXB3590 cobs. I get about same sized buds with 75 watts out Cree cob lights than what i got when i used a 250w Osram plantastar HPS in the same small tent. = No going back to using a hps for me.

From DeceiverZ’s side-by-side grow thread..

CXB3590 vs MH/HPS vs 650W ChilLED

Here is a chart I found in someones album if it might help -

www.icmag.com

HPS vs Cree CXB3590 cannabinoid lab results:

Cree cobs won.




PS.
Personally, i feel no noticeable difference smoking my keeper cuts HPS vs. my Cree CXB3590 cobs. I get about same sized buds with 75 watts out Cree cob lights than what i got when i used a 250w Osram plantastar HPS in the same small tent. = No going back to using a hps for me.

The whole point in using the LEDs in the first place is to be efficient and save electricity. This side by side contradicts the whole LED efficiency theory. Instead of using 20-40% less electricity to get equal or slightly better buds they are using 20-40% MORE electricity to get equal or slightly better buds..what the hell here? This is about as bone headed of comparison as Ive seen. If anything this looks BAD for the LEDs. Common people were smarter than that!

 

[Hammerhead]

You guys will have to do your own testing and decide what works for you. Trust me we all do not grow the same quality under any light. No matter how well we grow the quality will not always be the same. I'm still using a mixed flower room of CMH/LED(1kwCMH+1900W LED). My room is set up with a 1KW CMH in the center of my room surrounded by LED. I'm happy with my results. I do keep my leds further away at 30-36". The hardest thing for me is keeping my room warm enough. I'm not adding heaters.

I had the mars in a tent but moved (too cold in my veg room for LED) it into the main room. These were grown under Mars fce-6500. The CMh was at the other end of the room when I did this thread. CMH-hlgled-MarsLED. The plants in this thread were all directly under the Mars led with some overlap from the hlg.
https://www.icmag.com/threads/mars-fce-6500-680w-led-grow-journal.18071531/

 

[GoatCheese]

Hate to say but that side by side really wasnt very even. The LEDs are 200w more and COBs 500 watts more than the HPS! And those tiny 6" blockbuster hoods don't throw near the light of a Raptor 8. Of course the Hps will have lower readings. So basically those readings mean nothing if we want to get technical here. We need a side by side with EXACT wattages and optimum Hps hoods and ballasts before anything can be proven....

So now you say cobs grow higher cannabinoid content vs a HPS if you use more wattage?!

With that logic, bud grown with a 250w hps should be much lower potency than what grows under a 1000 watter. But does it work that way? I have grown weed under a 250w hps and a 600 w hps and there isn’t a noticeable difference in potency/effect.

And like i wrote about my personal experience with the same cuts i have kept for years, i feel no noticeable difference in effect/potency when i grew the cuts under a 250w hps (some cuts under a 400w hps too) and now with my Cree cobs, but using only 75 - 90 watts off the wall.

 

[linde]

So now you say cobs grow higher cannabinoid content vs a HPS if you use more wattage?!

With that logic, bud grown with a 250w hps should be much lower potency than what grows under a 1000 watter. But does it work that way? I have grown weed under a 250w hps and a 600 w hps and there isn’t a noticeable difference in potency/effect.

And like i wrote about my personal experience with the same cuts i have kept for years, i feel no noticeable difference in effect/potency when i grew the cuts under a 250w hps (some cuts under a 400w hps too) and now with my Cree cobs, but using only 75 - 90 watts off the wall.

What I'm saying is the fricking COB was using almost 500 watts MORE than the HPS to get similar results ...NOT 500 watts less.

 

[GoatCheese]

You guys will have to do your own testing and decide what works for you. Trust me we all do not grow the same quality under any light. No matter how well we grow the quality will not always be the same. I'm still using a mixed flower room of CMH/LED(1kwCMH+1900W LED). My room is set up with a 1KW CMH in the center of my room surrounded by LED. I'm happy with my results. I do keep my leds further away at 30-36". The hardest thing for me is keeping my room warm enough. I'm not adding heaters.

I had the mars in a tent but moved (too cold in my veg room for LED) it into the main room. These were grown under Mars fce-6500. The CMh was at the other end of the room when I did this thread. CMH-hlgled-MarsLED. The plants in this thread were all directly under the Mars led with some overlap from the hlg.
https://www.icmag.com/threads/mars-fce-6500-680w-led-grow-journal.18071531/

You say there’s a difference in weed quality with different lights you've used (..people claim leds grow lower potency weed that wears off fast in this thread, so that's what i mean with quality)

..but then you go on and tell that your environment changed along with the light fixture . So where does the difference in quality really come from? Your light source or the environmental change?

 

[Crooked8]

Wow your posting flowers ! Want a prize ? I wish I had more people here are talking sense and facts then pictures believe me, pictures are not the go to when it comes to Potency Taste Smell or you want to refut that also ?
Don't be a clown, you have no way to contritict the facts that make each tech

It is you who have no clue on light and the science behind it, you got mixed up in the terms and numbers and pulled the trigger too fast
To say you led flowers which look exectly like all medicore led grows all over the world better is a straight joke and laugh at the face of the people who buy dope from u cuz you save money on their backs
You don't wanna handle the bills or tribulations that you need to go through in order to grow killer Bud
You opted for the easy way like 99% of new age info growers
Money talksssss anyone who says else is BS
So keep your g/w and shitty weed for yourself
I'm done explaining basic 3rd grade facts to biased people.

Your bullshit explanations get funnier each day. Nobody is more full of shit on this forum. You post nothing other than your babbling opinion. Ive been doing this 20 years. Way before Leds. Ive tried it all on small scale and commercial level. Not only do you not understand ppfd/efficacy which is the actual science here, but you dont understand what you yourself are saying and contradict yourself constantly. Keep spewing fake bullshit all you like. Im not surprised at all that you cant understand what an NDA would or would not allow. I showed my flower grown under led, show us anything, literally anything that competes with my flowers. Put up or shut up.

 

[GoatCheese]

What I'm saying is the fricking COB was using almost 500 watts MORE than the HPS to get similar results ...NOT 500 watts less.

I understood you the first time, it's quite clear if you read my comment again.

It’s not 500 watts more on one plant – it’s spread out on larger area. I don’t think the extra 500w spread on many plants is the reason for the Crees growing stronger weed.

 

[linde]

You're suppose to use LESS LED watts to equal HPS

I understood you the first time, it's quite clear if you read my comment again.

It’s not 500 watts more on one plant – it’s spread out on larger area. I don’t think the extra 500w spread on many plants is the reason for the Crees growing stronger weed.

You don't? Lol. I sure do. More means more.

 

[GoatCheese]

You're suppose to use LESS LED watts to equal HPS

You don't? Lol. I sure do. More means more.

Does a 1000w hps grow 4x stronger weed than a 250 watter?

Can't you fukkin read - i wrote that i grow as strong weed with 75 watts out of my Cree cobs as i did with 250w/400w hps Osram Plantastar bulbs - You claim my cob-weed should be much weaker but it just isn't.

 

[linde]

I don't think the proce

Does a 1000w hps grow 4x stronger weed than a 250 watter?

Can't you fukkin read - i wrote that i grow as strong weed with 75 watts out of my Cree cobs as i did with 250w/400w hps Osram Plantastar bulbs - You claim my cob-weed should be much weaker but it just isn't.

I understand that...but the shootout proves that you can get more watt to watt from Hps. Not to mention the coverage. LEDs have no hood to give good coverage. The prosecution doesn't prove it's case...CASE DISMISSED. HPS is free to go.