Cinderella 99 The Come Back

[LostTribe]

I should add 2 things that Stocktont brought up. Mr Soul in his previous incarnation was adamant about 2 things.

1) It was imperative that he maintain the Y chromosome from the "Sensi Smile line" and the only way to do that was to include the Bro pollen in the cubing of Princess. The Sire is the only one capable of donating Y chromosome.

2) Female seed should absolutely never be used in commercial production based on his assertion that at least something like 4% of all fem'd seed would still produce pollen and would seed up the crop. He acted like it was pure evil! Now he's XX'ing away!! My opinion is that he does NOT have access to Princess and the cutting is dead, but any access to Princess would also most likely come in the form of a reversed seed line had he the opportunity to complete that. For such an important mom, nowadays that might even be a #1 priority for any seed maker.

Genius was released and I have even been offered the cutting a number of times. Princess has never been seen since the pictures I posted above. Not since 20 some years ago.

Just a couple of points to add to the discussion.

 

[Donald Mallard]

Well, what about Bro? The male seed that was used to pollenate the Shiva Skunk to begin the cubing process with Princess?

P.50 = Princess x (Shiva Skunk x Bro)

Or are we to believe there was such a high chance of a male seed from female pollen? Princess, Genius, Cafe Girl, Bro maybe another cant recall so thats like 4-5 seeds seems like it should more than likely be a male as the likelyhood of a full on male from femanized pollen (at least with sts) is much less likely than 1 in 5 more like 1/1000 I think. You are right in that a commercial op would only be working with cuttings especially in bloom.

It could be anything unknown x unknown as we really don't know if it was Jack Herer, maybe Jack flash, NLHaze, SSH or other altogether.

I probably should have asked you first.
LT

for sure lt ,
could have even come in on a set of hands that had recently touched a male ,
or on clothing ,
and yea it would be a surprise to find a male in the seed , however not totally impossible ,
as you say the maths is against finding 1 in 5 seeds but not impossible,
was any c99 ever submitted to phylos ?
that may have given a bit of a clue but then it could have even left more unanswered questions depending on the findings ...

the thing that made me focus on her was the flowering and how it performed in my natural setting ,
i had been looking for something that would still continue to flower on our longest day , (13 hrs)
and also be productive enough for shorter day lengths ,
c99 ticked most boxes for me and was the reason i used it a lot and made many hybrids from her ..
i thought the pineapple pheno s were by far the better , the pick of the litter, so i tried to increase the amount of pineapple in each successive generation i made..

for me the downside was tolerance built up quickly , for me anyhow ,
which was why i made hybrids with sativas that gave a longer high , and were less prone to tolerance build up...

i still have fond memories snapping lumps of a large block of pineapple flavoured hash and putting them on top of my already packed bongs,
damn fine hash that was ...

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Do you have an opinion on what you think the unknown male was that created the seeds found in the Sensi Smile shop?

Thats one thing that is rarely discussed and not even present here...

Yes - it's a good question - and one I might have asked Mr Soul nearly 20 years ago - when I last saw him - but I have found that after 2 and a half years detention in Camp Bagong Diwa in Manila kinda fried my brain - it was so bloody hot - and I have since noticed that large blocks of my memory were lost - due to the suffering and also suffocating heat in that shithole - which I had to endure - under the tin roof of that cell block - often times up to and above 40 degrees Celsius - so my apologies for not being able to offer much on the topic -

 

[Stocktont]

I should add 2 things that Stocktont brought up. Mr Soul in his previous incarnation was adamant about 2 things.

1) It was imperative that he maintain the Y chromosome from the "Sensi Smile line" and the only way to do that was to include the Bro pollen in the cubing of Princess. The Sire is the only one capable of donating Y chromosome.

2) Female seed should absolutely never be used in commercial production based on his assertion that at least something like 4% of all fem'd seed would still produce pollen and would seed up the crop. He acted like it was pure evil! Now he's XX'ing away!! My opinion is that he does NOT have access to Princess and the cutting is dead, but any access to Princess would also most likely come in the form of a reversed seed line had he the opportunity to complete that. For such an important mom, nowadays that might even be a #1 priority for any seed maker.

Genius was released and I have even been offered the cutting a number of times. Princess has never been seen since the pictures I posted above. Not since 20 some years ago.

Just a couple of points to add to the discussion.

Yes the Princess brother was something that was underlined by MrSoul as an important part of his vision of the backcrossing to Princess and he also stated in one of the first interviews (the pot-cast) when coming back that he germinated a few of the seeds he found already in Holland/Europe and put them out on a balcony and some were males. He had to kill those as he was leaving and brought the rest of the seeds home where he germinated them and according to him found Princess, Genius, Cafe Girl and at least one male, Princess Brother. After the return of Brothers Grimm in 2015 the Princess Brother and the previously claimed start of the backcrossing was left out of the story and it seemed the ”resinous Shiva Skunk female” had been changed to a ”robust Shiva Skunk male” as the partner to make the P.50 generation. Both these stories can’t be true and that would be the first question I would ask if I ever got the chance. How could the story change so drastically?

I have had a few ideas why there were males in the story in the beginning. There are other famous bag-seeds that come with stories of males that no one ever saw and there could be ”political” reasons for that, cough, cough, something dog?

IF there were males, then I would rule out a female as the pollen donor, if there were no males then a female pollen donor would be possible. Maybe this was the reason for the males in the story in some of those cases I don’t know and I doubt that anyone propelling the stories would admit IF there were no males. This is all assumptions and speculations though.

What I don’t get though, males or no males, why would someone keep the males in the story but drop the most important of those males to the actual backcrossing schedule?

I agree that Genius has been seen and used by a few people to create seeds even during the absence of MrSoul and Brothers Grimm. Princess never seen and have MrSoul posted any pictures of the Princess cut publicly since the return?

 

[@hempy]

Mr Soul ( I do like that name ) if again all is to be believed found the Princes plant from the seed he found in the JH flower and he selected a male found in that same seed and back crossed to his sister being Princes.

He then continued to select males and back crossing back to Princes set amount of generations.

All Soul knew was he found seed in a JH flower from a coffee shop in Holland.

If you read the Vic High archives you will see Soul shared with many including Vic.

 

[LostTribe]

Were Dutch commercial grows multi cropping or mono cropping in the late 90's? If it was a Sensi Op were they only growing Sensi Strains or would a Dutch Op have access to outside shop cuttings/seeds? Clearly seeds could have been purchased/traded/swapped but was that customary?

I did like to take some time to see what this phylos galaxy is all about. I havent really looked into it in detail and wonder if C99 has been entered.

edit: I was thinking and see you mentioned the phylos I havent looked

 

[Stocktont]

for sure lt ,
could have even come in on a set of hands that had recently touched a male ,
or on clothing ,
and yea it would be a surprise to find a male in the seed , however not totally impossible ,
as you say the maths is against finding 1 in 5 seeds but not impossible,
was any c99 ever submitted to phylos ?
that may have given a bit of a clue but then it could have even left more unanswered questions depending on the findings ...

the thing that made me focus on her was the flowering and how it performed in my natural setting ,
i had been looking for something that would still continue to flower on our longest day , (13 hrs)
and also be productive enough for shorter day lengths ,
c99 ticked most boxes for me and was the reason i used it a lot and made many hybrids from her ..
i thought the pineapple pheno s were by far the better , the pick of the litter, so i tried to increase the amount of pineapple in each successive generation i made..

for me the downside was tolerance built up quickly , for me anyhow ,
which was why i made hybrids with sativas that gave a longer high , and were less prone to tolerance build up...

i still have fond memories snapping lumps of a large block of pineapple flavoured hash and putting them on top of my already packed bongs,
damn fine hash that was ...

Good points Donald, both on the potential source of the pollen and those qualities of C99 in general. She was always a fast finisher, she was pretty fast in most regards to me, fast to veg, fast to show pre-flowers, fast to respond to flower, fast to finish and I always had good luck cloning her and she was usually very fast to root. I also agree with the points on the smoke, if only smoking C99 with regards to tolerance especially if compared to longer flowering tropical types. She has always been a good tool in hybrids like you say often adding positive things like quickness and flavor.

 

[LostTribe]

Yes the Princess brother was something that was underlined by MrSoul as an important part of his vision of the backcrossing to Princess and he also stated in one of the first interviews (the pot-cast) when coming back that he germinated a few of the seeds he found already in Holland/Europe and put them out on a balcony and some were males. He had to kill those as he was leaving and brought the rest of the seeds home where he germinated them and according to him found Princess, Genius, Cafe Girl and at least one male, Princess Brother. After the return of Brothers Grimm in 2015 the Princess Brother and the previously claimed start of the backcrossing was left out of the story and it seemed the ”resinous Shiva Skunk female” had been changed to a ”robust Shiva Skunk male” as the partner to make the P.50 generation. Both these stories can’t be true and that would be the first question I would ask if I ever got the chance. How could the story change so drastically?

I have had a few ideas why there were males in the story in the beginning. There are other famous bag-seeds that come with stories of males that no one ever saw and there could be ”political” reasons for that, cough, cough, something dog?

IF there were males, then I would rule out a female as the pollen donor, if there were no males then a female pollen donor would be possible. Maybe this was the reason for the males in the story in some of those cases I don’t know and I doubt that anyone propelling the stories would admit IF there were no males. This is all assumptions and speculations though.

What I don’t get though, males or no males, why would someone keep the males in the story but drop the most important of those males to the actual backcrossing schedule?

I agree that Genius has been seen and used by a few people to create seeds even during the absence of MrSoul and Brothers Grimm. Princess never seen and have MrSoul posted any pictures of the Princess cut publicly since the return?

We know that the Previous incarnate was adamant that fem'd seed line was an abomination. Could that be the underlying reason to create a Y chromosome/Bro story in the first place as a way to make it so that his line wasnt based off of a herm'd accident like he was preaching against?? Although, at the time there was not much talk of elite bagseed especially from a hermie such as Chem and Kush for the most part I recall the discussions of those were not as volumous as they have become since.

 

[LostTribe]

A quick cursory search shows Mr Soul's Princess and Cinderella, but "no clones in the galaxy" guessing no clones have been submitted.

 

[@hempy]

Were Dutch commercial grows multi cropping or mono cropping in the late 90's? If it was a Sensi Op were they only growing Sensi Strains or would a Dutch Op have access to outside shop cuttings/seeds? Clearly seeds could have been purchased/traded/swapped but was that customary?

I did like to take some time to see what this phylos galaxy is all about. I havent really looked into it in detail and wonder if C99 has been entered.

edit: I was thinking and see you mentioned the phylos I havent looked

From my understanding growing plants to produce seed up until some point in the late 90s was legal but growing flowers to sell and smoke was not.

The dutch have weird laws.

The flowers the seed came from were sold as JH but were the flowers even JH.

 

[Stocktont]

We know that the Previous incarnate was adamant that fem'd seed line was an abomination. Could that be the underlying reason to create a Y chromosome/Bro story in the first place as a way to make it so that his line wasnt based off of a herm'd accident like he was preaching against?? Although, at the time there was not much talk of elite bagseed especially from a hermie such as Chem and Kush for the most part I recall the discussions of those were not as volumous as they have become since.

Yea that was my line of speculation as well, easiest way to curb any talk of ”bag-seed hermie” would be to insert a male in the story. I know Chem wasn’t public knowledge by that time but the first one was said to be grown in 1991 so it’s the same times when people were really afraid of ”hermie bag-seeds” but I have no insights into C99 or Chem91 and their inceptions other than speculating.

Funny thought how the Cindy creator was totally against ”feminized” seeds once and these days he has even given talks on how to make good ”feminized” seeds, times change…

 

[LostTribe]

It grows very similar to Jack but that is the one strain I didnt actually get my hands on except for a bit of trimming, but my mentor grew some very nice Jack. I believe I remember him having a pack of Jack Flash as well but not sure he ran those. We had sort of divided up and he went with some and I went with the others but we both ran the Big Bud for a bit. I do think there is a good amount of NL5/Haze and Skunk#1 involved in the Cinderella. Jack would be a 65-75 day strain for the most part. Original C99 was complete in 49-56 days there abouts, so does that give reason to make an assumption that a short flowering plant was the pollen donor?

Something fast, fat, fruity and glistening.
NL
Super Skunk
I have wondered about the MLI but not sure it was in the shops?
I have also wondered if it could have been the old AK but obviously not a Sensi Line.

C99 x AK makes a great combo even random matings. I did one with a mosca and new serious turned out enourmous.

 

[Lester Beans]

I always thought is was Grapefruit as the mystery parent. Lots of similarities

 

[LostTribe]

I always thought is was Grapefruit as the mystery parent. Lots of similarities

Hard to find info on BC Grapefruit anymore.

I tried to cross reference some things but the galaxy is down at the moment.

 

[Stocktont]

NL5 and Skunk#1 are definitely impacting the hybrid of C99 in my opinion. Even if there’s still debate regarding the linage of Jack Herer (maybe there’s more than one version of Jack Herer?) most seem to agree with it containing NL5, Skunk#1 and Haze in varying portions. Also when reading out the linage of Shiva Skunk - that was used to outcross the Princess or Princess brother to start the backcrossing it is NL5 x Skunk#1.

I have some experience with Shiva Skunk or NL5 x Skunk#1 as it was called before Sensi Seeds released it. There’s phenotypes in that variety that had the same kind of funky, fruity and bright pineapple candy kind of typical C99 flavor. I thought it was the Skunk#1 ”leaners” that had this more so than the NL5 but that is from memory and subjective.

NL5 was a hybrid and it’s said to be Afghani x Hawaiian. What exactly this Hawaiian is I don’t know. I never grew the NL5 clone nor any seeds of NL5 (not pure not the NL5 x NL1 not NL5 x NL2 or any of the backcrosses). Does anyone know what the flavor and high off the pure NL5 is?



Grapefruit as in the mother of Sweet Pink Grapefruit? Is it the consensus of the growing world that the GF clone was a NL2 type of plant? I think Breeder Steve said so in one of his interviews but it was an educated guess from his part if I remember right. What was NL2?

The story on the Northern Lights varieties goes something like the NL1 was Afghani x Afghani where one of the Afghanis was Steve Murphy’s Afghan and the other was a Mazzar - i - Sherif. NL2 was - according to Seattle G from ”The Indian” and he said it was also using Steve Murphy’s Afghan but I think he don’t know what the other part was.

I have also noticed a few similarities between C99 and SPG (GF phenotypes) that a friend grew. The look could fool only judging visually. There’s a similarity in flavor but not so much with the C99 Pineapple more the Grapefruit C99 phenotype like some of the plants from Joey Weed’s ”C99 F2”. I always called my friends GF phenotypes of SPG ”Indy Cindy” as to me it had a slightly more relaxing high, a bit deeper fruitiness and just a more manageable structure, his clone looked like a perfect christmas tree where most of my C99 plants had to be bent and trained into a mess at times.
I also don’t know if Steve’s SPG were grown in Holland in 1997 but of course the old GF (mother) clone was probably much older and god knows where it came from. Steve said he thought it was already very old when he got it in the 90s.

Did someone talk about Durban Poison earlier in this thread? It was one of the possibilities offered by MrSoul when reopening the company and getting the question what he thought could have been the pollen donor. He ruled out female pollen as he still claimed he got males out of the seeds but said maybe Durban. It’s not as far fetched as one might first think when looking at a typical durban. Structure is there in the more branched and thin stemmed phenotypes. Durban is quick for being a ”landrace Sativa”. Durban is/wasn’t as quick as 7-8 weeks though.

Durban also is said to have a high terpinolene (had to google the spelling) content just like Jack H is said to have and I don’t know enough about terps and how they mix in breeding to be able to give a guess if two high terpinolene varieties would make a pineapple/grapefruit/mango dominant flavor in offspring?

All this ranting is just my opinion of course. You guys got my mind going to old corners of my brain, been thinking about this puzzle for quite some time and not that I got any closer with this but it’s always fun with a bit of a canna-mystery.

Dutch Passion Durban Poison pic

Sensi JH, bad pic, maybe someone has better pictures?

Shiva Skunk


None of the above plants were grown by me or anyone one I know, from google!!

 

[midwestkid]

One thing I thought was unique about your C99 was the crazy long petioles. Do any of the varieties listed above have ridiculously long petioles?

 

[Fitzera]

NL5 and Skunk#1 are definitely impacting the hybrid of C99 in my opinion. Even if there’s still debate regarding the linage of Jack Herer (maybe there’s more than one version of Jack Herer?) most seem to agree with it containing NL5, Skunk#1 and Haze in varying portions. Also when reading out the linage of Shiva Skunk - that was used to outcross the Princess or Princess brother to start the backcrossing it is NL5 x Skunk#1.

I have some experience with Shiva Skunk or NL5 x Skunk#1 as it was called before Sensi Seeds released it. There’s phenotypes in that variety that had the same kind of funky, fruity and bright pineapple candy kind of typical C99 flavor. I thought it was the Skunk#1 ”leaners” that had this more so than the NL5 but that is from memory and subjective.

NL5 was a hybrid and it’s said to be Afghani x Hawaiian. What exactly this Hawaiian is I don’t know. I never grew the NL5 clone nor any seeds of NL5 (not pure not the NL5 x NL1 not NL5 x NL2 or any of the backcrosses). Does anyone know what the flavor and high off the pure NL5 is?



Grapefruit as in the mother of Sweet Pink Grapefruit? Is it the consensus of the growing world that the GF clone was a NL2 type of plant? I think Breeder Steve said so in one of his interviews but it was an educated guess from his part if I remember right. What was NL2?

The story on the Northern Lights varieties goes something like the NL1 was Afghani x Afghani where one of the Afghanis was Steve Murphy’s Afghan and the other was a Mazzar - i - Sherif. NL2 was - according to Seattle G from ”The Indian” and he said it was also using Steve Murphy’s Afghan but I think he don’t know what the other part was.

I have also noticed a few similarities between C99 and SPG (GF phenotypes) that a friend grew. The look could fool only judging visually. There’s a similarity in flavor but not so much with the C99 Pineapple more the Grapefruit C99 phenotype like some of the plants from Joey Weed’s ”C99 F2”. I always called my friends GF phenotypes of SPG ”Indy Cindy” as to me it had a slightly more relaxing high, a bit deeper fruitiness and just a more manageable structure, his clone looked like a perfect christmas tree where most of my C99 plants had to be bent and trained into a mess at times.
I also don’t know if Steve’s SPG were grown in Holland in 1997 but of course the old GF (mother) clone was probably much older and god knows where it came from. Steve said he thought it was already very old when he got it in the 90s.

Did someone talk about Durban Poison earlier in this thread? It was one of the possibilities offered by MrSoul when reopening the company and getting the question what he thought could have been the pollen donor. He ruled out female pollen as he still claimed he got males out of the seeds but said maybe Durban. It’s not as far fetched as one might first think when looking at a typical durban. Structure is there in the more branched and thin stemmed phenotypes. Durban is quick for being a ”landrace Sativa”. Durban is/wasn’t as quick as 7-8 weeks though.

Durban also is said to have a high terpinolene (had to google the spelling) content just like Jack H is said to have and I don’t know enough about terps and how they mix in breeding to be able to give a guess if two high terpinolene varieties would make a pineapple/grapefruit/mango dominant flavor in offspring?

All this ranting is just my opinion of course. You guys got my mind going to old corners of my brain, been thinking about this puzzle for quite some time and not that I got any closer with this but it’s always fun with a bit of a canna-mystery.

Dutch Passion Durban Poison pic





Sensi JH, bad pic, maybe someone has better pictures?



Shiva Skunk


None of the above plants were grown by me or anyone one I know, from google!!

The Hawaiian was actually white Widow from what I understand. Afghani x white Widow x afghani x white Widow. It was just called Hawaiian lights because it was bred in Hawaii.

 

[Stocktont]

The Hawaiian was actually white Widow from what I understand. Afghani x white Widow x afghani x white Widow. It was just called Hawaiian lights because it was bred in Hawaii.

Are you saying the Hawaiian in NL5 is White Widow? that doesn’t really make sense to me. NL5 was sent in seed form to Nevil according to both him and Seattle G and that was in the 80s, before White Widow was released in the 90… am I missing something? cheers

 

[Fitzera]

Are you saying the Hawaiian in NL5 is White Widow? that doesn’t really make sense to me. NL5 was sent in seed form to Nevil according to both him and Seattle G and that was in the 80s, before White Widow was released in the 90… am I missing something? cheers

Maybe I'm confusing it with Hawaiian lights specifically, I've seen a message directly from Greg that it is Afghani x white Widow x Afghani x white Widow.

Edit: yes im confusing them. And there happens to be some discrepancy to what i said as well...greg has told different people different things. On one hand he said what i wrote, on the other hand hes telling people it's purest indica x nl5.

Anyway, not helpful to the topic

 

[Stocktont]

Maybe I'm confusing it with Hawaiian lights specifically, I've seen a message directly from Greg that it is Afghani x white Widow x Afghani x white Widow.

Edit: yes im confusing them. And there happens to be some discrepancy to what i said as well...greg has told different people different things. On one hand he said what i wrote, on the other hand hes telling people it's purest indica x nl5.

Anyway, not helpful to the topic

hmm that’s weird… Steve Murphy’s Afghani is in it anyways, guess calling something ”Hawaiian” really is misnomer in any eventuality as it most certainly had to be something else before it became Hawaiian… In the context of this discussion the NL5 only referred to the female clone used in The Seed Bank and Sensi Seeds hybrids like NL5 x Haze, NL5 x Skunk#1 et-al.

I was under the impression Hawaiian Lites was a backcross of NL5 (the seed line) to the Hawaiian side, whatever that Hawaiian was, lol. I think I just stop right there before I confuse myself more…