Breeding for beginners

[sackoweed]

OG
howzit?? Brother im not angry. More just annoyed and not at you.. It would be nice if people could be a lil more nicer on how they do things.. It should all be positive.. And it always seems that when someone is being positive. Someone is waiting to piss in the bowl of corn flakes.. As for booing off a good breeder (you) why would i be so stupid.. I could learn from much of what u have to say.. yea when i posted what i said i was more annoyed than usual.. Not angry but annoyed.. And what i meant more was that if a great breeder even comes in here he should try and start out the post with something positive. And if he see's that the info is incorrect Have enough respect to send the thread starter a PM. And talk equally just because someone is a better breeder does not give the rite to make the person feel like an idiot in his own thread.. so this sorta thing is avoided thats all.. Im no breeder thats for sure.. So i cant debate anything about breeding unless its with 2 legs.. Cant we all just get along.. peace..

sack

 

[OG bub]

OG
howzit?? Brother im not angry. More just annoyed and not at you.. It would be nice if people could be a lil more nicer on how they do things.. It should all be positive.. And it always seems that when someone is being positive. Someone is waiting to piss in the bowl of corn flakes.. As for booing off a good breeder (you) why would i be so stupid.. I could learn from much of what u have to say.. yea when i posted what i said i was more annoyed than usual.. Not angry but annoyed.. And what i meant more was that if a great breeder even comes in here he should try and start out the post with something positive. And if he see's that the info is incorrect Have enough respect to send the thread starter a PM. And talk equally just because someone is a better breeder does not give the rite to make the person feel like an idiot in his own thread.. so this sorta thing is avoided thats all.. Im no breeder thats for sure.. So i cant debate anything about breeding unless its with 2 legs.. Cant we all just get along.. peace..

sack

right on saco bro. I understabd what you mean, as what yer speakin of, does happen far too often in the wrong manner, and it does leave a foul tast in the mouthes of those tryin to learn..

I hope you can read my above posts, and understand where Im comin from.

be well brother! I look foreward to our future chats!

Peace, bub.



(picture of: a pot plant)

 

[XyZ]

Bub's Deep Chunk ect...

Deep Chunk is work from Tom Hill.
What makes bub a real breeder and not a pollen~chunkr?

 

[raygun]

Hey lets get back to helping......
Bub, I have done my reasearch and i believe that most people here have too at some point. I mean we all had to research how to get our closets/rooms/soil/ferts ect. I agree that we should be looking at many sources especially on the internet. I don't take all the info as fact untill i can see it tested and shown to be fact. Following Rez with his public Sour D breeding project was very informative i found, so is the story of c-99. Now that story makes it sound so easy to get a stabilized holy grail of your own.....
You have good info to give in your section, very scholarly and scientific, however not every one is a scientist and you have institutionally schooled growers and life educated growers and so this was supposed to be in laymans terms how to make a solid hybrid with what you have or how to get as close as you can to a seed form of a prized clone mom you have. (the list of proper terminoligy is great but seriouly probably 1/3 of my public friends might know what 1/2 of that stuff is. I do but only because of my science studies in school) If the students are spouting off things that could cause errors or are not fact perhaps letting the rest of us know would be better than the search for yourself i'm not going to help answer you gave.
I was hoping that you would very simply point out some possible major errors in the thinking of some of us closet seedmaking marijuana breeders.

This should not be a debate about if this is "proper breeding" who cares what you call it, you get the point of what we are trying to do here by the time you have read this far, so help a bruda out. :friends:

XyZ I'll direct you to Bubs forum and tell you to look for yourself on that one and i hope that you were being at least sarcastic. HTC has some fine offerings. Yes bub is the keeper of some of Toms work but their are still some of his own work, limited selection but always consistant and quality from what i have seen.

Look at seedbay and see how many 2 strain crosses are for sale. What makes some one who puts out f1 hybrids a mj breeder? That is what you should ask. Consistancy and quality in my opinion. If those hybrids are constatly kick ass i would suspect that they have done their home work about what they are working with and what positive traits get transfered from atleast one of the parents. It is still a game of luck and random genetic chance. Much like black jack or poker for instance both games of chance and luck but with the right knowledge you can swing the odds in your favor.

Kokua thanks for the info. Reminding us about resessive positive traits. That super frosty prized plant you got out of your pack could be a resessive trait (why do you think it was the ONLY super frosty) and would be a limited selection causing you to have to make f2's from your 1st outcross/incross

Johnny thanks for that quote that is where the 2nd part of the above statement comes from.

"Robert Clarke , from marijuana botany

Occasionally hybrid offspring will prove inferior to both parents, but the first generation may still contain recessive genes for a favorable characteristic seen in a parent if the parent was homozygous for that trait. First generation (F1) hybrids are therefore inbred to allow recessive genes to recombine and express the desired parental trait."

This is all good positive info. thanks for your help. I think that i'll pop a few of the initial outcross f2s i made. I never planned on growing those but now i want to see what is a possible resessive trait. (is my thinking correct in this?) progress!!
Thank you
~raygun~
for your viewing pleasure some colorful SB and a pict i just like self toped A.M.

 

[Johnny Chimpo]

~~~~~~EDIT~~~~~~~

I had relevant information posted here but do not feel this thread is the right place for it...One of my posts was a glossary of terms posted from OG bubs forum and was asked to edit it because it was somewhat long ("thats not why I started this thread")...so apparently posts with relevant information if they are somewhat long are not welcome. The more I read this thread it appears only speculation (except from the first post) from the thread starter is welcome here. I think you would be better off getting your information from Sproutco...

JC

Edit: In a few posts down he says he "merely asks me to condense it". More like he demanded me to ~make it smaller...~way too large...~thats not why I started this thread. I would have posted another reply but am currently done posting here. Instead of contributing in his thread I'd rather read one of my breeders books than read speculation from him.

Here is what another member posted:

Its no secret that terminal budsites are superior to lateral budsites, once you cut the terminal budsites, the next lower lateral budsites will become the terminal ones.

There is a lot of good info about auxins and cytokins in regards to the growthcycle on the net, its worth the search.

His response:

again this is breeding for beginners if you want to use those terms make ya own thread. its lost on me and I dont need to go that far into terms when I know the basics, thats enough.

He could have asked him to explain it better or research the terms himself and maybe even post the definitions so everyone can learn...but apparently everyone here doesn't want to learn.

Just isn't the right place for me with people being treated like this...

On with the show for the rest and I would get a second opinion before undertaking a project if the advice was given by him.

 

[Guest]

Howdy
I don't know if this is where I should post this but, I would like to know what you would get crossing Island sweet skunk from Fed seeds and Chocolate chunk TH seeds, how to breed for desired traits and stablizing, in plain easy to understand countryfied english...

 

[raygun]

Orion,
I do believe that some of the info that you are looking for is in this thread. It would be very difficulty however to give you 1,2,3 directions on how to do whatever it is you are trying to get done. I will be using some terminology to keep things in order so hope you have some knowlege retained after reading this thread and others on breeding/seedmaking/pollin chucking porn production ect...
My sugestion would be and this is so general. You must figure out what males or females to use as its your garden no one could tell you w/o growing your plants.
1. Ask yourself what female plant do you like better or want to focus more on.
do you have a male and female of each?
2. What do you want to introduce to it (are you just looking to cross those two or improve somthing in them? this could make it more difficult depending on what you expect)
3. Pollinate with one or the other and grow your f1's
4. pick the f1's you like and flower
5. from your f1's make f2's and backcross(bx) the f1 to your mom and grow those (The f2 should give you the avalibility to look for positive resessive traits from the inital outcross)
6. Grow your f2's and bx1's find plants you like again and repeat step 5 depending on what direction you want to take the seed line. You should by now see what direction what cross gave you in the form of dominant/resessive physical traits. You then can chose what direction you wish to pursue your new line. It is still a crap shoot so best of luck to ya.
Have you read the story of c-99? That is a good breif explanation of stabilizing a special plant you may have.

I am not a professional just learning and letting you know my basic understanding. Anyone with more knowlege please correct me if my thinking is off so that we can get back on track.
Thanks
~Raygun~

 

[glasspackedbowl]

I merely asked him to condense it(By rearranging info or choosing a small font)

Orion 3
anyways Look for the traits you want. Really depends on strain and how male and female traits are exchanged. So make a male female and then a female male of each set of strains. With 1 female and 1 male of each strain with the traits you want. Cross then both and see which ones carried over the best traits. Then if you want a trait you didnt seam to get back cross the seeds you just make of ISS X CC and CC x ISS back to the CC and ISS parent plant or another with the same trait out of the same pack of seeds the original parents came from.

 

[raygun]

All this crossing and back crossing remids me of "The Aristacrats" joke....
And the mother and f1son were pollinated, then the the f1daughter was in a 3 some with the f1brother and the p1dad, then the cousin was getting polinated with the dad and the mom was polinated with her inbread f2grandson....
What a cross that would be.
Sounds more like the Chemdog 101 thread.
Oh the comic releif.
Happy Friday every body.
~raygun~

 

[Omega Rasta]

Not to throw it off topic but if AK47 f2s x AK47 f2s =AK47 f3s ??

Then those AK47 f3s x AK47 f3s = Ak47 f4s ??

If so....I know what I'll create in my pcoming garden for beans.


Omega Rasta

 

[blacklb937]

thnx

thnx

it has to take lots and lots of time and preperation to get the exact thing you want at the end of the day especialy when you'd rather have that recessive trate

 

[blacklb937]

those look soo fn good

 

[glasspackedbowl]

Not to throw it off topic but if AK47 f2s x AK47 f2s =AK47 f3s ??

Then those AK47 f3s x AK47 f3s = Ak47 f4s ??

If so....I know what I'll create in my pcoming garden for beans.


Omega Rasta

Well...Lets look back at the basic info on f2's.

You can either preserve the strain, or go for specific traits.

If you want to keep the strain going then I would pick 2 plants with totally different traits. So refer to that picture above I'd take the tall green ss/bb and the short purple SS/BB. Then do the same again. Then take it back by using an f2 parent with the f3 and then you'll have something about as well kept as you can. I wouldn't call it an IBL but its the closest you'll get. with f2's.

If you want A trait Pick 2 f2's with same traits but looking back at the pic, you still might miss some traits. So In order to stop that from happening you would have to pick male's with the same traits. Keep all that are close to what you want in traits. Then pollinate one female close to what you want. Then with those seeds take another with male with the same traits you want and pollinate him with a different f2 female but with similar traits.

 

[Guest]

Heres a question for the breeders: When picking and choosing plants to breed - do you bloom out all the plants from seed OR do you keep them around and bloom out a clone before deciding whether or not that specific plant is worthy?

If you bloom it right from seed, do you keep cuts for further breeding or just pollinate once and done?

I have made a few very amatuer crosses now and would like to start breeding for more specific traits, smell, color, potency, mold resistance... but the plant numbers have started to become mind boggling.

 

[glasspackedbowl]

• We start with seeds and grow them till they show preflowers. Then you can tell males from females. Then take clones and flower/bloom them to see what the final product will be like. Usually you can take clones at around 22 days.
• See how the clone does like I said if you like it use the mother.
• Always keep the mother for back crossing or you wont really keep all the hidden traits

 

[Guest]

Thanks GPB, thats what I'm doing now... but the plant numbers are getting high. Gotta start being more aggressive I guess.

 

[glasspackedbowl]

once you stabilize the strain you can keep it in seedform. UNless you want the mother for crossing with other strains. Since you already know how she works when you start a project. I reccomend you start one strain at a time. WWork it down to IBL seeds and then pick a new mother to cross that IBL to another and watch out, thats where those wicked hybrids come from.

 

[ElGato]

nice thread GPB ,some really good info in this one........ thanks




El

 

[smokinsiggy]

Hermie polinated female clone.

Hermie polinated female clone.

Been playing with my green thumbs for decades and never had this happen before but like the saying goes first time for anything . Was growing some seed start plants with female clones and had 2 that were indicating hermaphrodite plants after 5 1/2 weeks flower. Was using my technique of 10/14 light change to induce finishing as per say and overnight they produced sacks and one or two were open when noticed the follow light cycle ON. Should have known better than to have them in the same environment but now I have a hybrid to play with consisting of Female "Kush X Blueberry" and Hermied "Sativa X Shiskaberry . Here is my confusion , will the females with the big dark round seeds be dominant female and male or will they be hermaphrodite?

 

[Guest]

Been playing with my green thumbs for decades and never had this happen before but like the saying goes first time for anything . Was growing some seed start plants with female clones and had 2 that were indicating hermaphrodite plants after 5 1/2 weeks flower. Was using my technique of 10/14 light change to induce finishing as per say and overnight they produced sacks and one or two were open when noticed the follow light cycle ON. Should have known better than to have them in the same environment but now I have a hybrid to play with consisting of Female "Kush X Blueberry" and Hermied "Sativa X Shiskaberry . Here is my confusion , will the females with the big dark round seeds be dominant female and male or will they be hermaphrodite?

Chances are good that you will find 1/3 of each - male, female, hermie.

Just my experience...