Blumats vs Drip DTW

[delta9nxs]

Nope, I haven't.

From your definitions, I'd say that blumats are midway between "drip" and "pulse" - they will drip until the sensor hits the setpoint, and then turn off. One benefit of the blumats that I see right off is that they will hold a desired moisture level as the plant's needs change. Adjustability of timers presupposes that you are present to adjust them.

How do you balance the system out so that the plants nearest the pump get the same volume of water as the plants at the extremes of the feed loop?

well, the blumats are a smarter drip for sure, depending on the operator.

if you water the medium the plants needs are taken care of. i will end with a total of three timer resets in the entire grow. each taking less than 10 seconds to accomplish with a sentinel drt-1.

the equal flow can be accomplished three ways, one is short manifold with equal length lines but in a larger room you have a lot of loose coils all over the floor. but it would be great for four or six plants grouped close together.

the next is short manifold with lines to length as needed to reach each plant but using a valve on each line to balance flow. my current set up is like this for various reasons.

but the one i like best is highlife45's long manifold, with short equal lines for each plant station. requiring no valves. in all versions the manifold and pump should stay flooded so there is no air in the system below the water level.

 

[Bud Spleefman]

That PVC was a support for those Dutch Leach Trays I used to use, my manifolds are actually just 1/2" spinkler pipe, that black stuff they sell rolls of at Home Depot. Each run is strapped to the wall, at the same level, or in some cases, on the ground. I am also using a sprinkler control valve on each run, so when it's done feeding the valve closes, and I don't have to worry about the res syphoning onto the closest plant.

Here's a view from underneath... this is my old room, my new room is below in my sig....

 

[delta9nxs]

You need to make all your drip/feed lines the same length, and you need to use a big enough pump to pressurize the entire system.

you don't need to pressurize if the pump, manifold, and lines remain flooded at the same level between events.

pump capacity should be around 100 gph per plant station with trees and buckets. getting the pulse out in a short period of time increases the gas exchange.

 

[delta9nxs]

Actually I am using a 24 foot long manifold with 5 ft long feed lines, 30 of them, per manifold. No drippers, just a "t" fitting on the end.

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great demo photos, this is why there are no clogs. no small orifices. large pieces of shit just blow right through it.

 

[Bud Spleefman]

great demo photos, this is why there are no clogs. no small orifices. large pieces of shit just blow right through it.

"Large pieces of shit blow right through it!" I just spit coffee on my monitor! Ha ha!

Yes, I like those feed lines, they never get clogged! But, I am open to Blaumats, so far, though, I never hear of any big grows using them. Fact is, most big grows around here, they are hand watering, anyway. Labor is cheap, and it gives a reason for someone to look at the plant, everyday.

 

[rives]

Cool setup, guys. D9, how long did it take you to arrive at your timing setpoints? I don't see that changing the timing would be an issue - it's knowing how much to change the timing!

 

[Incognegro]

A lot of great points mentioned by delta9...

I have tried pulse myself, but haven't been able to find a timer to suit my needs....well...i do have a 20 setting digi timer... i will see if i can get this one dialed the way i want...

I do disagree though about not having to pressurize the system..that would depend on placement of pump...

What time of pump/timer you use? my hydro grow i just broke down, i used a 1" 6500gph pump on the floor...it was used to pressurize a 25sqft main manifold, with 3 smaller ones, then a 35 sprayers...application worked well, but pump heated water too much... had to break down... may venture down that road when other things are altered.

I am thinking of setting up another drip for the new room...40+ plants...

 

[Incognegro]

my last drip coco setup it was setup with a manifold on each rack (3 racks) not 2..oops! but was built where i have to manually hook up a pump to each rack, not completely automated...my plants were at different weeks of floweing and each required a different nute regime...

this time they are same age, and should be able to be watered with a universal mix..we'll see.. may stick to using my watering wand like i have lately...only 40+ plants in small pots...in a 5x5 room...nothing major

 

[delta9nxs]

Cool setup, guys. D9, how long did it take you to arrive at your timing setpoints? I don't see that changing the timing would be an issue - it's knowing how much to change the timing!

trial and error but error is not damaging in a complete ppk system. it's very forgiving.

one of the big problems with conventional hydro is that things go bad in a hurry. sometimes too fast for you to catch it. overnight or while you are away for the weekend.

with a ppk system there is ample time to observe and correct as it is a redundant grow system. i don't think anyone has ever lost a plant in one.

the big problem with dtw is that there is no backup. in the ppk with no electricity the plant will not dry out for a long time. maybe 5-7 days or more depending on how your system is set up.

the reason i'm talking about the differences is that you will have a different set of criteria.

with a straight up dtw your medium will dry faster as it is not being back fed by the wick.

but setting the timing points is rather intuitive for an experienced grower.

personally, with dtw i would apply small amounts frequently while observing the plant. if you are putting in too much too fast the plant will show over watering symptoms and if it is too slow you will show wilt.

obviously you don't want to be even close to a wilting event so i would work it from the wet side and dry it by stages until the plants look right.

 

[delta9nxs]

A lot of great points mentioned by delta9...

I have tried pulse myself, but haven't been able to find a timer to suit my needs....well...i do have a 20 setting digi timer... i will see if i can get this one dialed the way i want...

I do disagree though about not having to pressurize the system..that would depend on placement of pump...

What time of pump/timer you use? my hydro grow i just broke down, i used a 1" 6500gph pump on the floor...it was used to pressurize a 25sqft main manifold, with 3 smaller ones, then a 35 sprayers...application worked well, but pump heated water too much... had to break down... may venture down that road when other things are altered.

I am thinking of setting up another drip for the new room...40+ plants...

i have a mag drive 2400 pushing 24 3.5 containers right now. it is not pressurized. impeller type pumps are not really pumps but blowers so when fired it just moves liquid through the system. right now i deliver approx 42 oz's in 30 seconds. all open lines, 1/4" id which is a little bigger than the standard drip line from lowes at .170 id.

again, look at hl's grow to see how it works on a larger scale.

the pumps only run minutes a day so heat is not an issue. i have 16 30 second events per day. they don't even have time to get hot.

also the ppk system does not require chillers. my solution, reservoir, and medium temps run between 78-82f by design as i'm using co2.

the biggest reason most people run dtw is rot due to high temps in conventional hydro.

growth rate is driven by light first and temperature second but must be balanced by co2 input.

with the numbers you are talking hl's set up would be ideal for you.

 

[delta9nxs]

my last drip coco setup it was setup with a manifold on each rack (2 racks) but was built where i have to manually hook up a pump to each rack, not completely automated...my plants were at different weeks of floweing and each required a different nute regime...

this time they are same age, and should be able to be watered with a universal mix..we'll see.. may stick to using my watering wand like i have lately...only 40+ plants in small pots...in a 5x5 room...nothing major

in the ppk thread i ran a perpetual show with 5-8 plants in a veg system and 8-9 plants in the flower room. all plants a week apart. two pumps and two reservoirs but one supply tank that was typically mixed at 600 ppm at .5 using jack's hydro special and calcium nitrate.

pound a week for a long time.

 

[Incognegro]

in the ppk thread i ran a perpetual show with 5-8 plants in a veg system and 8-9 plants in the flower room. all plants a week apart. two pumps and two reservoirs but one supply tank that was typically mixed at 600 ppm at .5 using jack's hydro special and calcium nitrate.

pound a week for a long time.

looking at you grow, and checking out hl45's now..

wanna streamline some things..and always looking for improvements..

 

[Incognegro]

fuck delta.... i've got some many q's...lol... whenever i do send that pm...hope you're comfy..it'll be a long one! lol

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, just come on over, everybody will help on any of the threads below.

 

[DHF]

"Large pieces of shit blow right through it!" I just spit coffee on my monitor! Ha ha!

Yes, I like those feed lines, they never get clogged! But, I am open to Blaumats, so far, though, I never hear of any big grows using them. Fact is, most big grows around here, they are hand watering, anyway. Labor is cheap, and it gives a reason for someone to look at the plant, everyday.

Top feed rules with coco..... especially with open end driptubing and tees toi shoot juice sideways for full container coverage..........

Peace...DHF...... .....

 

[RamCTD1027]

Bringing back an old thread...

I stepped away from the grow scene for a few years but I'm back. Signed a lease on a space to set up a legal medical grow for a amputee veteran friend of mine. Limited to 12 plants in veg and 12 plants in flower. Right now the plan is to grow vertical trees with 13k in air pots filled with pure coco. Back to the age-old debate....blumats or drip DTW.

Before anyone says it, I did search. I cant seem to find the info I am looking for concerning large plants in coco.

I'd like to hear opinions on blumats or drip DTW. I would like to limit the discussion to system performance and avoid things like cost to set up. I have a lot of the necessary supplies to set up a blumat grow and a drip dtw grow so cost is not the major concern.

I was leaning towards blumats for the ease of use but I have read a lot lately on drip DTW with multiple (i.e. approx 5ish) feeds per day. I have ideas set in place to handle the blumats and the possible runaway but if I go with DTW, i would need to figure out a way to handle the waste.

I guess the major questions: How do the blumats perform with LARGE plants? I have 50 regular sized blumats and I am willing to purchase the Maxis. I understand that multiple blumats will be necessary on containers larger than 5 gallons but that doesnt scare me. If a go blumats, I will have an elevated res (14 ft high) fed by multiple 55gal drums.

So what does everyone think?

 

[stoned40yrs]

I was growing 6' plants in 2gal smarties, straight coco. 1 regular sized blumat in each container. Now I handwater, twice a day, as soon as the weather gets warmer I'll hook the blumats back up. In 2 grows with them I had 1 runaway. No other problems. I like them but you know how it is, the other kids toys always look better. If you are growing bigger plants than that in big containers I would say forget the blumats.

 

[Mad Lab]

I use these drippers on a pvc manifold. clean. i went back and forth for years with coco, dwc and rockwool but its gets to the point where i dont like bringing in so much material and having to remix or throw away alot. 6x6 block, nothing. I also get 3+ each light (5x5)with 6-9 plants per light.

trick is those eggshell trays under the blocks. roots explode into them and are protected from light like coco mats but without suffocation and lots of air/oxygen for open roots. great for DTW. blocks dont retain as much water and allows to feed more which is better than coco because theres more osmosis and increases the plants metabolism.

 

[RamCTD1027]

Thanks for the replies so far

Stoned, why do you say forget blumats if growing big plants in big containers?

Mad Lab, that's a nice setup but unfortunately, low plant numbers would prevent me from doing anything like that. I have plenty of personal experience with coco and would like to stick with that as my medium.

 

[stoned40yrs]

Thanks for the replies so far

Stoned, why do you say forget blumats if growing big plants in big containers?

I'm just guessing because handwatering them two or three times a day gives me somewhat better plants than blumats do. I'll still run blumats spring, summer and fall and like them but if I had to choose all over again I would have gone with a setup that gives multiple timed feed everyday. I highly doubt you would regret going that way instead of blumats. From the thousands of posts I've read it's far more likely for a guy using blumats to switch to timed drippers than for a guy using timed drippers to switch to blumats