Blumat auto watering

[ekomsi]

I got my 50 Tropf Blumats with 60 extra Meters of 3mm tubing. Geez that tubing is tiny! I have faith it will get the job done tho! Just waiting for Kent 3/32in unions they are retarted and didnt send my order b/c they didnt figure in the shipping and handling when I payed? So they waited till I called! They ended up sending it today and they are taking care of the shipping so wtf was the hold up? I placed both orders on the same day, they are both based in CO. Enough bitching I have questions.......

If growing 50 plants under 9 600W lamps in a 9ft x 14 ft area should I use 3gall containers or 5 gall containers? Im pretty sure Im going to use Botanicare 50L double washed bagged coco and cut it with some perlite? Can I get away with 3 gallon pots using coco and still pull 4oz per plant with a 4-5 week veg? What does everyone recomend I really want to break 1g/W with these blumats.

 

[Dave Coulier]

I would spend my money on an Irrometer soil tensionmeter instead of the Blumat one.

This is what I use.

I would read this too.

From personal experience with my tensionmeter, Ive found 7 kPa to be ideal. If I reach 5 or lower, the media will be on the soggy side. 7 is a bit higher than recommended, but for me its worked well. Its possible my tensionmeter is a bit off though. Ive had troubles with calibrating it sometimes.

 

[rrog]

This is very interesting and thank you for taking the time to post this. I like it when these things can be quantified. I'd be very interested to hear if anyone else is using this tool. I posted this question in the Organic Soil forum. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5185657#post5185657

 

[heady blunts]

Sounds to me like they added in an extra $100 or so. The patio kits are going for roughly $75 apiece, and I paid about $45 for a Blumat pressure reducer....

oh yea, that only adds up to ~$200. hehe, maths

what a rip!

 

[Dave Coulier]

This is very interesting and thank you for taking the time to post this. I like it when these things can be quantified. I'd be very interested to hear if anyone else is using this tool. I posted this question in the Organic Soil forum. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5185657#post5185657

Im glad you got some use out of it. I hadn't even read the second link until now, but Im glad I found it and shared it. After reading the material, and understanding the value seen on the gauge isn't indicative of the water tension at the ceramic tip. After a little math, it would seem the root zone water tension is 4 kPa, which falls into the comfort zone.

Spurr also has an irrometer tensionmeter, and I believe he was shooting for around 4-5 kPa for ideal soil moisture. And ive found that to be pretty ideal in my garden.

 

[offthehook]

4 kPa? after conversion to Millibar this would be 40 Mb?

Sorry mate, no fucking way in hell this could be the comfort zone for cannabis.

It's way and way too wet.

Am I now converting it wrong or is the failure at your place Dave?

On large or open mediums Maybe it could work on 40 Mb, but only if measured in the upper layer of the soil and if the plants are real mature already and if your soil is real airy or drains like fuck.
What happens then namely, is that the roots in the under layer of the soil will drink more than the roots in the upper layer, creating a balance that way.
But young plants on regular soil on 40 mb, nope, way too wet, sorry.

You would want your sprouts to devellop thick stems already early on, and this you will only achieve on dryer mediums.

For seedlings of up to 2 weeks old I would honestly start off on 80 mb and not water anything at all untill it has reached 180 mb. (The relative humidity would have been 70% during the first 4 weeks then, but during bloom down to 50%)

After that I would give it a steady 120/150mb untill bloom, then 150/180mb untill harvest.

In combination with White Russian genetics did I manage to get 2 gr/watt or 1 kg/square meter that way, and you don't have to believe this, but I know what I saw and measured.
If now someone tells me I could have got more by running it on 40 mb does this mean I could have even got more cuzz my numbers were totally off ? I sincerely doubt.

 

[avant gardener]

2 questions:

1. do these things work with nutes or do they only handle clear water?

and

2. where is the cheapest place to pick them up in bulk?

i'm sure the info is in this thread somewhere, but i'm in the middle of chopping so i don't have time to read through 2000 posts tonight.

thanks fellas!

 

[offthehook]

@ rives

Quote rives: Well, this would be a great idea if anyone actually had the meter. I've only seen it on the Blumat web site - have you seen a US distributor that stocks them? End quote.

OTH > Sorry mate, I'm on this side of the pond and had no clue they are out of reach for you.

Just go into their original site I'd say and try ordering straight from there > Blumat.de

Listen, I got to order some for a friend anytime soon, and if you are interested I could order for you too, free of charge ofc. Just drop me a pm in that case. They will come straight from Germany to me, tho I 'm in Finland so it would get a bit more expensive this way.

@Avant Gardner. (Organic)nutes might want to glogg up the ends of the lines but hey, you only feed once every 4 to 5 days so you better do this manually anyways.

 

[Dave Coulier]

I dont have time to reply to all this because I am short on time, but from what my meter tells me, and the health of the roots I can say that a reading of 7 kPa on the Tensionmeter gauge is ideal.

Your conversion is correct from kPa to mb, but I dont recall reading any literature that discusses ideal tension level in mb, so I couldn't really tell you much.

If you read the second link I posted above you'll learn more from it than I could possibly answer you.

What meter are you using? Maybe its not as accurate as you believe?

4 kPa? after conversion to Millibar this would be 40 Mb?

Sorry mate, no fucking way in hell this could be the comfort zone for cannabis.

It's way and way too wet.

Am I now converting it wrong or is the failure at your place Dave?

On large or open mediums Maybe it could work on 40 Mb, but only if measured in the upper layer of the soil and if the plants are real mature already and if your soil is real airy or drains like fuck.
What happens then namely, is that the roots in the under layer of the soil will drink more than the roots in the upper layer, creating a balance that way.
But young plants on regular soil on 40 mb, nope, way too wet, sorry.

You would want your sprouts to devellop thick stems already early on, and this you will only achieve on dryer mediums.

For seedlings of up to 2 weeks old I would honestly start off on 80 mb and not water anything at all untill it has reached 180 mb. (The relative humidity would have been 70% during the first 4 weeks then, but during bloom down to 50%)

After that I would give it a steady 120/150mb untill bloom, then 150/180mb untill harvest.

In combination with White Russian genetics did I manage to get 2 gr/watt or 1 kg/square meter that way, and you don't have to believe this, but I know what I saw and measured.
If now someone tells me I could have got more by running it on 40 mb does this mean I could have even got more cuzz my numbers were totally off ? I sincerely doubt.

 

[catman]

offthehook - I think what you have said could be summed up that one is better off having too dry of soil for a seedling than over-watering. I think this holds true for all stages of the plant's life. I've observed different stem formation depending on the wet/dry cycle as well, but I'm not convinced having a thicker/bark-ier is better. I'd be willing to be that temperature and humidity play a larger role with stem formation than within normal ranges moisture variance in soil.

It's all about the VPD. I use to think it was just my strains, but I believe in general, leafier strains are going to have a stem that looks less woody because they are more able to pull or push moisture from or to the air. I've grown seedlings to harvest in 10% RH conditions and at least I think I've formed some thick stems and well structured/shaped plants, but the plants grew slow and results weren't up to par. I also noticed the plants would really grow in spurts, but now by trying to keep VPD in range, growth is more constant. Plants respond to LST much better and tend to take on a bushier structure over all. It seems in low humidity conditions the plant tries to create as much leaf on the top so earlier growth dies off as all resources are aimed up.

Has anyone else looked at the size of their buds and traced the stem back to the beginning of the plant? On my last grow, which was my first larger grow granted, I noticed some of the smallest buds on my largest branches that formed early on. It wasn't just like the top of a branch was unproductive, but all the shoots from it sucked as well. I'm near certain it wasn't from lack of positioning in or intensity of the light. Maybe they just weren't high enough up on the plant to have the auxin hormones, but maybe it isn't so simple. I know that root growth releases the hormones too so possibly that was the root (no pun intended) issue. This really isn't a simple issue and I think in reality it's realized by the lack of success most people have with running bulbs stacked on top of each other with a single tier of plants.

 

[sunnydog]

Quote:
What I am wondering, since we calibrate our auto drippers with Blumat tensiometers anyhows...

We do?????

 

[sunnydog]

Quote: In my experience, the moister pots ALWAYS out-perform the drier pots. End quote.

This is one exemple of someone's moist indication in this thread and there are a plenty like this.

What I am wondering, since we calibrate our auto drippers with Blumat tensiometers anyhows... Why not PLEASE put here the number in millibars that you are talking about?

My best results have always been between 120 to 150 mb in veg and 150 to 180 mb in bloom.

Is there anyone's observation that's matching mines?

Of course the composition of the medium plays a role too, so I'd like to add that I am on 30% clay chunks, 30% potting soil, 30% blonde peat or cocos & 10% home made compost.

All of this meter thinking is (by choice)now, quite alien to me. B/M allows me to dial in a plant till IT'S HAPPY. Not the one by the fan, or the heater, or closest to/ furthest from the lamp,etc,
Knowing (worse yet, living by) yet another thingy" sucks.
PH meters come to mind . I can still remember having 3 brand new freshly calibrated sticks, and NONE would give a consistent reading.

I follow the B/M instructions Pretty much. You develop a feel for them. When things seem a little dry, I'll either give a 1/4arrow or so , or just swamp and re-calibrate(start over). Seems a bit wet, do the reverse. Ultimately I am using the plant as a meter ,not trying to HIT SOME(essentially arbitrary) NUMBER ON A GAGE, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE FUNCTIONING PROPERLY to BEGIN WITH. Add to the fact they all seem to have their own moisture needs. Add also, different media types MAY impact the way these things read/sample (it is basically a blumat cone tip), potentially making readings across many to be not re-producible/accurate.

So, why bother? I have boxes full of grow junk(this will help plants grow better stuff ; UV-B bulbs, Multi meters pumps etc.) I have TOTALLY found the less I try to fuck with my plants the better they do/ the healthier they are. I just don't see the point, I guess. I'm a simple fuck; I'm just happy they work! IT IS JUST SO RARE TO BUY THIS TYPE OF PRODUCT, and it REALLY WORKS!

I think somewhere here, or at least available from Blumat, are the moisture settings for the B/Ms for those who might care.
I'm just blown away that I can not see them for 11/2 weeks and things are awesome. I really can't see how to improve on that.
Just my $5
SD

 

[sunnydog]

Im glad you got some use out of it. I hadn't even read the second link until now, but Im glad I found it and shared it. After reading the material, and understanding the value seen on the gauge isn't indicative of the water tension at the ceramic tip. After a little math, it would seem the root zone water tension is 4 kPa, which falls into the comfort zone.

Spurr also has an irrometer tensionmeter, and I believe he was shooting for around 4-5 kPa for ideal soil moisture. And ive found that to be pretty ideal in my garden.

4 kPa? after conversion to Millibar this would be 40 Mb?

Sorry mate, no fucking way in hell this could be the comfort zone for cannabis.

It's way and way too wet.

Am I now converting it wrong or is the failure at your place Dave?

On large or open mediums Maybe it could work on 40 Mb, but only if measured in the upper layer of the soil and if the plants are real mature already and if your soil is real airy or drains like fuck.
What happens then namely, is that the roots in the under layer of the soil will drink more than the roots in the upper layer, creating a balance that way.
But young plants on regular soil on 40 mb, nope, way too wet, sorry.

You would want your sprouts to devellop thick stems already early on, and this you will only achieve on dryer mediums.

For seedlings of up to 2 weeks old I would honestly start off on 80 mb and not water anything at all untill it has reached 180 mb. (The relative humidity would have been 70% during the first 4 weeks then, but during bloom down to 50%)

After that I would give it a steady 120/150mb untill bloom, then 150/180mb untill harvest.

In combination with White Russian genetics did I manage to get 2 gr/watt or 1 kg/square meter that way, and you don't have to believe this, but I know what I saw and measured.
If now someone tells me I could have got more by running it on 40 mb does this mean I could have even got more cuzz my numbers were totally off ? I sincerely doubt.

@ rives

Quote rives: Well, this would be a great idea if anyone actually had the meter. I've only seen it on the Blumat web site - have you seen a US distributor that stocks them? End quote.

OTH > Sorry mate, I'm on this side of the pond and had no clue they are out of reach for you.

Just go into their original site I'd say and try ordering straight from there > Blumat.de

Listen, I got to order some for a friend anytime soon, and if you are interested I could order for you too, free of charge ofc. Just drop me a pm in that case. They will come straight from Germany to me, tho I 'm in Finland so it would get a bit more expensive this way.

@Avant Gardner. (Organic)nutes might want to glogg up the ends of the lines but hey, you only feed once every 4 to 5 days so you better do this manually anyways.

I dont have time to reply to all this because I am short on time, but from what my meter tells me, and the health of the roots I can say that a reading of 7 kPa on the Tensionmeter gauge is ideal.

Your conversion is correct from kPa to mb, but I dont recall reading any literature that discusses ideal tension level in mb, so I couldn't really tell you much.

If you read the second link I posted above you'll learn more from it than I could possibly answer you.

What meter are you using? Maybe its not as accurate as you believe?

All of this meter thinking is (by choice)now, quite alien to me. B/M allows me to dial in a plant till IT'S HAPPY. Not the one by the fan, or the heater, or closest to/ furthest from the lamp,etc,
Knowing (worse yet, living by) yet another thingy" sucks.
PH meters come to mind . I can still remember having 3 brand new freshly calibrated sticks, and NONE would give a consistent reading.

I follow the B/M instructions Pretty much. You develop a feel for them. When things seem a little dry, I'll either give a 1/4arrow or so , or just swamp and re-calibrate(start over). Seems a bit wet, do the reverse. Ultimately I am using the plant as a meter ,not trying to HIT SOME(essentially arbitrary) NUMBER ON A GAGE, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE FUNCTIONING PROPERLY to BEGIN WITH. Add to the fact they all seem to have their own moisture needs. Add also, different media types MAY impact the way these things read/sample (it is basically a blumat cone tip), potentially making readings across many to be not re-producible/accurate.

So, why bother? I have boxes full of grow junk(this will help plants grow better stuff ; UV-B bulbs, Multi meters pumps etc.) I have TOTALLY found the less I try to fuck with my plants the better they do/ the healthier they are. I just don't see the point, I guess. I'm a simple fuck; I'm just happy they work! IT IS JUST SO RARE TO BUY THIS TYPE OF PRODUCT, and it REALLY WORKS!

I think somewhere here, or at least available from Blumat, are the moisture settings for the B/Ms for those who might care.
I'm just blown away that I can not see them for 11/2 weeks and things are awesome. I really can't see how to improve on that.
Just my $5
SD

 

[Bueno Time]

Might be stepping up to a dual 600 setup soon here and if I do I think it may be a good time to try the blumats that I have wanted to try for a while now.

I kinda want to try them with coco and maxibloom but I think Im going to stick with organics since its what I know. Maybe one lights worth of each if I feel lucky. From what I heard the KISS method is pretty much foolproof but a little outside of my comfort zone.

Will use the blumats for plain ro water and water in my teas and other nutes by hand. This is of course if this ends up going down or not.

 

[rives]

All of this meter thinking is (by choice)now, quite alien to me. B/M allows me to dial in a plant till IT'S HAPPY.

I understand your sentiment, Sunny, but as a retired electrician I have pretty well lived (or potentially not!) by instrumentation. What appeals to me here is repeatability - if a plant works better with more moisture, how do you consistently repeat that level without a bunch of monkeying around? If a particular strain likes it a bit dryer, figure that out once. When dialing in a fresh run, you wouldn't need to guesstimate if it was in the "sweet spot", and there should be less potential for overshooting your desired level. I like meters!

 

[sunnydog]

I understand your sentiment, Sunny, but as a retired electrician I have pretty well lived (or potentially not!) by instrumentation. What appeals to me here is repeatability - if a plant works better with more moisture, how do you consistently repeat that level without a bunch of monkeying around? If a particular strain likes it a bit dryer, figure that out once. When dialing in a fresh run, you wouldn't need to guesstimate if it was in the "sweet spot", and there should be less potential for overshooting your desired level. I like meters!

But you STILL gott "monkey" with them, just instead of watching the soil/plant, you're watching a dial or readout. If it works for you....good. I'm just tired of accumulating tons of junk.

 

[moodster]

ive been using the blumats for a while now i use the lucas formula and drip clean and notice white gunk on my air stone pipe anyone else getting a build up in the res ??

 

[silver hawaiian]

.... This really isn't a simple issue and I think in reality it's realized by the lack of success most people have with running bulbs stacked on top of each other with a single tier of plants.

I'm in week 9-10 of my first stacked vert grow. I've realized this 110%!

The short of it is that after this first stacked grow (two 400s), I'm realizing that I didn't nearly maximize my space.. I'm sure that's at the very least, to some degree, user error - didn't veg 'em long enough, wrong varieties/not enough stretch, etc.

BUT I'm also starting to think that a stacked setup may be more conducive to multiple levels of plants. For the next run, I'm considering building a shelf and doing two levels of plants - which means I'd stretch the space in between the lamps, so it's essentially two 400w vert grows, just stacked atop one another. ...



Very interesting observation catman!

 

[offthehook]

@rives & Dave.

Good point rives.
As a matter of fact am I only helping out friends with their indoor projects, but am a guerilla farmer myself for obvious reasons.

For us it is best to visit my friends places as little as possible and let the blumat's do the work for me.

Basicly I only take care of raising the lamps and do an occasional feed once a week, starting when they are in full bloom.
My favorite setup has got one cubic meter of soil, 2 blumat tensiometers (one up and one measuring at the bottom) has got 4 x 400 wtt hps above them and is real easy to maintain this way.

Blumat auto watering & blumat tensio meters DO seem to work for us Dave.( But note that I am an exp, senior grower wich might make some difference )

 

[rrog]

What appeals to me here is repeatability ... I like meters!

Exactly where I'm at. I lack the number of grows under my belt that other here have, and measurements make up for my lack of hands on experience.