One light cost $1300 ??
Retail yes.. There are others like Gavita and Fohse that cost much more.. If you know the right people we don't pay retail
Best Growlight Currently Available?
- Thread starter Callamus
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Retail yes.. There are others like Gavita and Fohse that cost much more.. If you know the right people we don't pay retail
Still a lot of cash no matter how good it is ..In my humble opinion
I guess if you are paying retail lol. What a vendor lists their retail at is meaningless. I don't know any that pays retail.
I know who/where to go to get a good deal on them if I want to …Currently looking to outfit a 25 x 25’ space
…Currently looking to outfit a 25 x 25’ space
the local grow shop has a couple of gavita leds for 999...im wondering if i can talk them down for the pair...or i can go with hlg and only pay a bit above actual cost
I would put HLG in front of Gavita just for their warranty. Getting a Gavita fixed would be a PITA. Finding out what the cost for HLG is easy for us
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alpo
Active member
Retail yes.. There are others like Gavita and Fohse that cost much more.. If you know the right people we don't pay retail
you can get a Gavita 1700e for $1,099.99 with power cord and adapter ; no inner circle special pricing
If anyone takes the time to contact a vendor id bet you would get at least 10% discount. Never ever go to a site that sells growing gear and buy anything expensive without speaking to a vendor sales rep(not the grow store). Many will sell directly to the public. You don't need any inner circles to do this. Most if not all will happily give you a discount by just asking. If they say no there are plenty of others that will and they know this. There are plenty of quality LED lights to pick from. Pricing alone is not the only reason to buy, look at their warranties and customer service, if you did have an issue how long does it take to get fixed/returned/replaced.?. Gavita is not made in the USA so id chose another unless the deal was too good to pass up. I know Growers Choice and HLG have awesome customer service. It's easier to deal with a company that is local(same country). I'd be looking in the 700-800$ max range for a 650w led depending on the vendor. There are others cheaper but as they say we get what we pay for.
skunk numba one
Member
What is the point of 2130ppf when results begin to taper off after 1,500-1,600 PPFD (w/ co2)
skunk numba one
Member
My e680s work well, but the controller is the best part. The controller makes the lights automatic and a non-issue. I talked in the LED thread about the customer support I got setting up two tents. It was very good BTW. Growers Choice: https://www.growersc.com/
I just noticed blue "bloom bars". I think I need more blue (less red) to finish better, so I may look into those. If they only fit a 720 - rats.
I just noticed blue "bloom bars". I think I need more blue (less red) to finish better, so I may look into those. If they only fit a 720 - rats.
The 1000 is repackaged 600 tech, though still behind the 600 in lumen per watt terms. The sockets are changed to tell the newer tech from the old. The new stuff should ideally be run from electronic control gear, but I have seen magnetics used.
The 315 makes use of electronic control gear, and changes size and socket to keep it apart. It's an evolution from the older CMH tech. It shouldn't be run on magnetics. Non are made.
DE is actually really old. It seemed to only appear in sodium lamps up to 150w though, while I personally had a 2000w MH that was just impossible to use. I'm talking kit that's 50 years old.
TwistedPistil
Member
That Fohse 1500w seems to be the most powerful. Commercial light tho. Needs tall ceilings for those. They do make a 640w model, called Aries, I believe. Great PPF and ųmols/watt, but I haven't seen a par test. Coming from that company, I can't see it under performing, I'm just hesitant for small grows because I half think it was designed for warehouses back in 2015 or so, so I'm concerned about the light spread.
The Medic Grow EZ 8 is a super super nice fixture for the price. It's kinda insane what kind of spread and power it puts off for that cost. Newer company so idk how that'll work. Not the most efficient in ųmol/w, but the ųmol/$ is cheap as can be and the spread is awesome. Might need co2.
for non co2 tents, there are literally dozens of decent lights for 5x5 and 4x4 foot prints. I would recommend seeing a third party par test with appropriate measurement devices.
cocoforcannabis has a website that does field par tests, so does Migro. Lots of useful YouTube videos of actual usable par light at the canopy, as well as PPFD averages and minimums and maximums. For tent growing, I would highly recommend people check out not only the total PPF, but also the PPFD from field tests to see what the light actually throws on a canopy. I really dig how cocoforcannabis does multiple parts tests with each light, manipulating the heights and other variables like wattage and footprint. Then he does all the math.
Dr. Bruce Bugbee has amazing videos on the all things photosynthetic. He is the man. Look him up on You tube for amazingly in depth explanations of terms that would normally be intimidating to learn. He makes it easy to get a grasp on lighting necessities for cannabis.
good Luck.
The Medic Grow EZ 8 is a super super nice fixture for the price. It's kinda insane what kind of spread and power it puts off for that cost. Newer company so idk how that'll work. Not the most efficient in ųmol/w, but the ųmol/$ is cheap as can be and the spread is awesome. Might need co2.
for non co2 tents, there are literally dozens of decent lights for 5x5 and 4x4 foot prints. I would recommend seeing a third party par test with appropriate measurement devices.
cocoforcannabis has a website that does field par tests, so does Migro. Lots of useful YouTube videos of actual usable par light at the canopy, as well as PPFD averages and minimums and maximums. For tent growing, I would highly recommend people check out not only the total PPF, but also the PPFD from field tests to see what the light actually throws on a canopy. I really dig how cocoforcannabis does multiple parts tests with each light, manipulating the heights and other variables like wattage and footprint. Then he does all the math.
Dr. Bruce Bugbee has amazing videos on the all things photosynthetic. He is the man. Look him up on You tube for amazingly in depth explanations of terms that would normally be intimidating to learn. He makes it easy to get a grasp on lighting necessities for cannabis.
good Luck.
I never used the old CMH tech.. The new CMH is far superior to HPS or the old CMH.. It's super easy to tell this apart with the new stuff using PGZ sockets.. I'll never stop using CMH in veg. LED cant produce enough heat so a heating source must be added whether it's for flower or Veg. Canopy temps for LED should be 80-85f.
TwistedPistil
Member
Hammerhead, I agree mostly with everything you're saying except the last part and that's only halfway true. Basically, and I was a giant led hater for years, but basically the tech (size of lights) is definitely there for the heat needed to keep leaf surface temperature to 82-86 max max with co2 and plenty of humidity. But as far as Any led that can't produce the heat, I completely agree.
by buddies been pulling over 2 packs on his 6 light that he asked me to design for him. We went over lots and lots of different options, and I was urging him to use HID, but he got "sold" on the LED lights. So I was pissed cause he didn't do what I told him (haha), and im a salty asshole, and I had to find the best lights for the best price and all that shit, cause it's what I do, and it ended up really surprising me after looking into the specs. With fairly common third party par testing maps and heat testing and power consumption testing available today, I found leds I couldn't imagine creating the light they do. And heat also. Well anyhow that guy got over 2 packs per light his first run (experienced grower with a gangster gg4 cut) and the room wasn't even full of plants on barely over 600w LEDs. The things work if you get a powerful enough model (ppfd) for good light penetration that also create enough heat to keep that leaf surface temp to that desired range.
I'm designing another 8 light for a different individual, and in less than a year there are already better models available for his application than the ones I was shopping last year. They create more ppfd per watt and better light spread. The light spread ppfd testing has really called the bullshit manufacturers out with pure data. And that helps me. Some of the 1000w swap out models are just fucking too much light unless you have co2 supplementation. Like the plants gotta be several feet away or you will get light stress.
I got dehumidifiers, 8 heavy duty industrial circulation fans, 4 8" inline fans for scrubbers and a veg room, 3 ton mini split ac/heat pump, environment/temp/co2 controller, digital light controller that hooks up to your phone if you want and 8 LED light fixtures from a reputable company capable of a minimum of 1000ppfd coverage on 200 sp ft of canopy at 18" height thats been 3rd party tested, priced at less than $10k for all the aforementioned products before any discounts on any equipment is applied from my hydro shop people. So considering the tech, it's a no brainer to go that route nowadays.
I priced the same room for non air cooled, as well as with HID, and it was a no brainer to run LEDs air cooled with how much cheaper and more efficient they have become.
I would definitely recommend people do the appropriate level of research before doing any buying or any growing tho. And I definitely agree that CMH are the shit, I just have to reluctantly disagree these days that they are better than LEDs. Again, long time LED hater. The future is now though. I can no longer deny it. I spent 18 years under a 1000w hps or 54. I was talking shit about them one year ago, no lie. Now I'm looking for that .75g/ųmol instead of that 1g/1w. They dump nuggets.
but if someone ran 1 light in a tent and got one of the most efficient, coolest led available in like 350-500 watts, I agree that they most likely won't have enough temp at that leaf surface for optimum photosynthetic activity. It would negate the point of buying that expensive efficient cool light. Because it would barely work to its theoretical potential without heat.
by buddies been pulling over 2 packs on his 6 light that he asked me to design for him. We went over lots and lots of different options, and I was urging him to use HID, but he got "sold" on the LED lights. So I was pissed cause he didn't do what I told him (haha), and im a salty asshole, and I had to find the best lights for the best price and all that shit, cause it's what I do, and it ended up really surprising me after looking into the specs. With fairly common third party par testing maps and heat testing and power consumption testing available today, I found leds I couldn't imagine creating the light they do. And heat also. Well anyhow that guy got over 2 packs per light his first run (experienced grower with a gangster gg4 cut) and the room wasn't even full of plants on barely over 600w LEDs. The things work if you get a powerful enough model (ppfd) for good light penetration that also create enough heat to keep that leaf surface temp to that desired range.
I'm designing another 8 light for a different individual, and in less than a year there are already better models available for his application than the ones I was shopping last year. They create more ppfd per watt and better light spread. The light spread ppfd testing has really called the bullshit manufacturers out with pure data. And that helps me. Some of the 1000w swap out models are just fucking too much light unless you have co2 supplementation. Like the plants gotta be several feet away or you will get light stress.
I got dehumidifiers, 8 heavy duty industrial circulation fans, 4 8" inline fans for scrubbers and a veg room, 3 ton mini split ac/heat pump, environment/temp/co2 controller, digital light controller that hooks up to your phone if you want and 8 LED light fixtures from a reputable company capable of a minimum of 1000ppfd coverage on 200 sp ft of canopy at 18" height thats been 3rd party tested, priced at less than $10k for all the aforementioned products before any discounts on any equipment is applied from my hydro shop people. So considering the tech, it's a no brainer to go that route nowadays.
I priced the same room for non air cooled, as well as with HID, and it was a no brainer to run LEDs air cooled with how much cheaper and more efficient they have become.
I would definitely recommend people do the appropriate level of research before doing any buying or any growing tho. And I definitely agree that CMH are the shit, I just have to reluctantly disagree these days that they are better than LEDs. Again, long time LED hater. The future is now though. I can no longer deny it. I spent 18 years under a 1000w hps or 54. I was talking shit about them one year ago, no lie. Now I'm looking for that .75g/ųmol instead of that 1g/1w. They dump nuggets.
but if someone ran 1 light in a tent and got one of the most efficient, coolest led available in like 350-500 watts, I agree that they most likely won't have enough temp at that leaf surface for optimum photosynthetic activity. It would negate the point of buying that expensive efficient cool light. Because it would barely work to its theoretical potential without heat.
No clue how you grow.. Everyone I know using LED (this includes some of the largest commercial growers in Cali) keep thier rooms hotter than hid. They all keep the canopy temps 80-85f.. I'm not telling you or anyone how to grow. I'm only relaying info based on experience from the many. If you prefer to not to run LED rooms hotter don't. LED rooms do not behave the same as HID rooms. Obviously, I wouldn't post that info if not true.
TwistedPistil
Member
I mean I think we're in total agreement on LED rooms needing leaf surface temp to 82-85 degrees. I was merely saying, for the average home grower, the newer higher output LEDs (~1000w) will definitely put out enough heat to be in that range. Yea I think 1200 average ppfd is also achievable in home grows with multiple ~1000w models with good usable ppf and ppfd ratings where as they weren't not so long ago.
I think buying a 600w or less led is basically useless unless you're heating the room up somehow or it's just naturally warm already in the room.
so are you saying giant warehouses with commercial1500w Fohse led lights or fluence lights need to he heated in addition to the heat put off by those giant fixtures? Because I have exactly zero experience building out warehouses with modern commercial led lighting. I contracted for a company called CGI based out of Colorado back in 2014 and 2015 and everyone was refitting their dispos to gavitas and such back then, so I don't have any relevant experience with LED commercial warehouses because I haven't worked in dispos since then, but I'm certainly curious what they need to cool or heat or dehumidify those spaces.
I think buying a 600w or less led is basically useless unless you're heating the room up somehow or it's just naturally warm already in the room.
so are you saying giant warehouses with commercial1500w Fohse led lights or fluence lights need to he heated in addition to the heat put off by those giant fixtures? Because I have exactly zero experience building out warehouses with modern commercial led lighting. I contracted for a company called CGI based out of Colorado back in 2014 and 2015 and everyone was refitting their dispos to gavitas and such back then, so I don't have any relevant experience with LED commercial warehouses because I haven't worked in dispos since then, but I'm certainly curious what they need to cool or heat or dehumidify those spaces.
I use Growers Choice, HLG and Mars led lights. None can provide the heat needed alone. I use CMH with LED in my flower room to keep the heat at 84f. If you are in a tent it's easier to do with smaller spaces. In open rooms not possible. My growers Choice 420w in winter struggles to heat my 5x5 to 75f. It's only used for males, reversals or overflow veg so I'm not too concerned. For flower, I'd need to heat it up to get the best results.
TwistedPistil
Member
Yea that all makes perfect sense.
alpo
Active member
leaf surface temperature should be the same no matter what light you are using, and the leaf surface temperature would be different depending on strain (+ maybe humidity, etc.).
