Best Growlight Currently Available?

[zachrockbadenof]

Yes you are right zachrock, but only longer strains finish in late sep\ mid oct, here where i live we harvest late july mid aug mainly, maybe start of sep on longer strains
in late aug and late sep the sun is not less intense but its hours are starting to decrease, we are still in summer period where the sun is more strong then winter, less then peak summer maybe but still in the high peaks of the year fo sure.

hey... i've grown outside for a number of years, and even all my indica's have needed to early oct to mature fully.... n the sativa's i've grown never finish- the other problem is i am surrounded on 3 side with water- the plants grow great till around sept 20th, when the days get shorter, sun doesn't come up so early and its more humid, the moisture stays in the bud, and i always get ROT.... not with the sativa's but all the indica's - so by the time i trim out the rot, there is nothing left.... that's why i have to grow indoors...and i believe (others will dis-agree) if u have proper conditions, outdoor weed will win every time...

 

[Koondense]

My question went alongside your claim of "lumens > PAR"...
We know the LPS lights produce almost twice the lumens of HPS lights and yet they are not used to grow plants. Hence PAR seems more important than lumens.
In other words, there is a reason photosynthesys is happening under sunlight and not so well under reduced spectrums.
Your claims seem to ignore what people researched for the last 30+ years.

Cheers

 

[growshopfrank]

My question went alongside your claim of "lumens > PAR"...
We know the LPS lights produce almost twice the lumens of HPS lights and yet they are not used to grow plants. Hence PAR seems more important than lumens.
In other words, there is a reason photosynthesys is happening under sunlight and not so well under reduced spectrums.
Your claims seem to ignore what people researched for the last 30+ years.

Cheers

I used to sell a 180W LPS fixture for growing. The lamp was around 3" diameter and 36" long. Never sold many bulky reflector and a lot of mercury in the lamp making them hard to properly dispose of.
There were some studies done concerning plant growth under solely under LPS and if memory serves the plants grew well but with some abnormalities and the conclusion was the lumens were more important than spectrum for raw growth numbers but spectrum is important for normal (natural) plant development.

 

[snakedope]

Koondense, you didnt read well what i wrote, you address it like i meant for growing plants, which is not what i meant, for veg or growing you need the LM count to be more spread out in the spectrum, as it needs red and blue light to develop in good healthy range, thats why i said LED rocks in that department,
LPS lamps, although high in lm\w, has a very very narrow spectrum, almost not possible to grow plants under, also, the lm\w of LPS is not double or twice of HID like u say, maybe more like 30% more.
So, LPS lights are not the answer.

Again, you need to divide plant growing with trichome production, 2 different things that need different set ups, just like veg nutes or flo nutes and any other stage a plant is in that needs this and that, my research is extensive i assure you that, science is wrong when it tries to put 2 different stages of life under 1 parameter.

 

[Koondense]

Look, lumens and par are just different counting of different photons.
The way you say things is not correct or defined enough to have a normal debate.
At least I don't have time for that, no disrespect though.

Cheers

 

[snakedope]

LM and PAR are same thing, LM describe how many PAR do you have in total, the localized PAR numbers is how that LM (or entire 400-700nm) fall and spread across the plane you are trying to light, one is counting total photons, the other just count how much you have downward of those photons or LM, both are the same.
Total LM output is measured as for lamp output, the ppfd numbers you see are just some of those total lm numbers that you started with and how they spread out over a plane.
One is the same, just different ways of doing the math and getting to actual results that humans can understand

Still, what you need to understand is that if your source is a low LM count, dosent matter if this LM is spread out perfect in that range, its still weak\limited in how many light photons it can produce.
The thing about vegging is that you dont need high intensity sources to do fine, thats why LED is vegging better then others, LED have much more light sources at further distances, taking into account that any plant will grow with even 0.5w of light and you got a vegging machine that cover space like no other.

But thats all old news, the thing i like to point out is that for flowering, having those low powered light sources wont help produce what you are looking for,
a diode is how much ? 200-300LM total, while a 26w cfl is 2000+, X10 of LED, so you say yeah but its 26w and the led is 2w, your right, thats why im waiting for the heavy weight diodes to come out, at least 10w each, with a 2000+ lm count, this kinda of panel will blow all the light producing mfg out of business as quality will hit the roof.

This will be the holy grail of LED, spectrum, which it already have, and intensity, which is now lacking dearly.

 

[Ca++]

I used to sell a 180W LPS fixture for growing. The lamp was around 3" diameter and 36" long. Never sold many bulky reflector and a lot of mercury in the lamp making them hard to properly dispose of.
There were some studies done concerning plant growth under solely under LPS and if memory serves the plants grew well but with some abnormalities and the conclusion was the lumens were more important than spectrum for raw growth numbers but spectrum is important for normal (natural) plant development.

Quite cold lamps physically. Perhaps colder than some of the earlier LEDs. IIRC mine were 220Lm/w and I only used them between my gutters, looking up. Used alone, they caused a lot of elongation. A lot.

Most of us will of seen LPS in street lighting. It is extremely orange. It's use was widespread 50 years ago, when it was orange LPS or white mercury lamps used for almost everything. Now you might find an LPS used for security reasons. Though it's likely been installed 20 years.

 

[pelonprojects]

bruh im just trying to figure out what LED to purchase for my 3x2x6 tent
please help with a simple answer, thank you

 

[pelonprojects]

bruh im just trying to figure out what LED to purchase for my 3x2x6 tent
please help with a simple answer, thank you

and don't come at me with that MARS hydro stuff, no disrespect

 

[Creeperpark]

and don't come at me with that MARS hydro stuff, no disrespect

You have 250 choices when it comes to LED lighting. Most of the fixtures use the same diodes but are placed by different manufacturers under different names. It's the same diodes in a different order. You can go cheap or expensive however they are the same diode. I tested two 130-watt LED lights and was surprised at how well they grew weed. I spent less than $100 for each fixture.

 

[pelonprojects]

You have 250 choices when it comes to LED lighting. Most of the fixtures use the same diodes but are placed by different manufacturers under different names. It's the same diodes in a different order. You can go cheap or expensive however they are the same diode. I tested two 130-watt LED lights and was surprised at how well they grew weed. I spent less than $100 for each fixture.

View attachment 18870254

thank you for your advice. i read someone else also mention to look at warranty, customer service, etc

how much space are those plants taking up for your 2 x 130 watt? do you think 300 watt is overkill for a tent that is 2x2x6 growing autos or just about right ? or 400 watt safer ? im thinking of fitting 2 or hopeful 3

 

[Hasch]

From what I understand for Autos one can place more importance on DLI (daily light interval). So when providing those plants 18 to 23 h of light per day the matter of the intensity of the lights isn't as important since the plants "add up" the amount of Par they received in that day.
Imho for a 2x3 or 2x2 space an efficient lamp (LED) with ~200 - 275 w is sufficient.

I suggest you take a look at Sanlight, Swiss company.
For 2x2 maybe the Evo 3-60
and for 2x3 maybe Evo 4-80 or Evo 4-100

 

[Ca++]

2x2 is pretty small. Mind you don't knock that thing over.
Auto's are an odd breed. Just one might fill it, Or might just grow a lollipop. They offer no real control, as you don't decide when they have vegged enough. When you have got to grips with them, things get easier. However, I feel they are always a handicap. Perhaps the testing results from cups are a good guide. To me though, they are a niche product. Great outdoors. No commercial use indoors.

35w of LED per foot is a fair target. So a 150 would cut it. Though we don't really measure LED lights in power consumption terms. Unlike HID, all LED lights are not near equals.

Lets be more specific. A 2x2 will have a light unit that about fills it. If you can keep it at 12" from the plants, you just loose about 15% of the lights output. Fancy 650umol? You might want to buy 750. That's 750 per meter though, and you have about a third, so need 250umol from your light. A better light, will give 2.5umol/w so that bits easy.. 100w from a decent light.
That does seem a little low. Like 300w a meter. It's just an acceptable amount of light, if you can keep it close. I don't imagine a first run having an even profile though, or that a bit more light would be a bad thing either. You might look at a 120w QB, with the idea of repurposing it down the line somewhere. It's higher mounting needs, won't give appreciably more light in your 2x2 though. Neither option allows you to run the light around 80% power either, which is still quite high for many designs. With use at 100% just painful to think about, as the light ages far too fast. It really circles back to the idea of a 150w light. Which allows you to buy lights that can manage just 2umol/w, and turn them down a bit. Budget range stuff, but stick with brands.

I would buy a Mars. Really I would. It's a good starter light in this instance.

I wouldn't buy auto's. They need to come up at 100% speed, and stay there. It's not a job for someone new to LED, or a novice grower. Aren't you both?
Get a photoperiod plant. Get it up, get it healthy, then flower it when you are ready. Smoke the best varieties.

 

[Lester Beans]

Marshydro makes a great product, just look around at all the successful grows on this site using Mars.

Any brand, just pick one, any LED light will be fine for a tiny tent and autos.

 

[Creeperpark]

thank you for your advice. i read someone else also mention to look at warranty, customer service, etc

how much space are those plants taking up for your 2 x 130 watt? do you think 300 watt is overkill for a tent that is 2x2x6 growing autos or just about right ? or 400 watt safer ? im thinking of fitting 2 or hopeful 3

3x6

 

[DaEarl73]

2x2 is pretty small. Mind you don't knock that thing over.
Auto's are an odd breed. Just one might fill it, Or might just grow a lollipop. They offer no real control, as you don't decide when they have vegged enough. When you have got to grips with them, things get easier. However, I feel they are always a handicap. Perhaps the testing results from cups are a good guide. To me though, they are a niche product. Great outdoors. No commercial use indoors.

35w of LED per foot is a fair target. So a 150 would cut it. Though we don't really measure LED lights in power consumption terms. Unlike HID, all LED lights are not near equals.

Lets be more specific. A 2x2 will have a light unit that about fills it. If you can keep it at 12" from the plants, you just loose about 15% of the lights output. Fancy 650umol? You might want to buy 750. That's 750 per meter though, and you have about a third, so need 250umol from your light. A better light, will give 2.5umol/w so that bits easy.. 100w from a decent light.
That does seem a little low. Like 300w a meter. It's just an acceptable amount of light, if you can keep it close. I don't imagine a first run having an even profile though, or that a bit more light would be a bad thing either. You might look at a 120w QB, with the idea of repurposing it down the line somewhere. It's higher mounting needs, won't give appreciably more light in your 2x2 though. Neither option allows you to run the light around 80% power either, which is still quite high for many designs. With use at 100% just painful to think about, as the light ages far too fast. It really circles back to the idea of a 150w light. Which allows you to buy lights that can manage just 2umol/w, and turn them down a bit. Budget range stuff, but stick with brands.

I would buy a Mars. Really I would. It's a good starter light in this instance.

I wouldn't buy auto's. They need to come up at 100% speed, and stay there. It's not a job for someone new to LED, or a novice grower. Aren't you both?
Get a photoperiod plant. Get it up, get it healthy, then flower it when you are ready. Smoke the best varieties.

Have you seen the mammoth leds? They look proper and they do a lot of research. They seem pretty good to me, cheaper than thinkgrow but I guess they are comparable. Always interested what you think, because you seem to be a “thinker “. Thanks again for all the tips

 

[Ca++]

Thanks DaEarl73

I just looked them over. I didn't see anything to get excited about. They have jumped on the EVO wagon, which I think is a mistake. They reference a Korean study into leafy greens, that found the EVO better than standard white or burple. Samsung made the EVO for leafy greens, so it's really just confirmation of older studies that led their development. It's not a good reason for us to use them. They drop the red and pump up the blue, which goes against cannabis research. They do put the red back, which seemed a good idea two years ago, but we know now that blue should be about 5%. Any greater shows results best described as growth inhibiting. About 30% it really goes bad, which we don't see in these lights, but any move towards more blue, isn't following the latest science. Nor is it as effective as using your electric to make red. I forecast a rapid move away from the EVO in cannabis lighting.

In construction terms, the bar lights they like making, don't have heatsinks. The channel used is for support. If you look at these supports, you see they have their own internal ribs for rigidity. The width of these ribs suggest mechanical function, but not thermal. They are thinner than the outer shell. It's not good practice.

These sort of sourcing decisions, don't get me excited.

 

[flylowgethigh]

Nothin wrong with the new Mars lights. Your biggest issue is size. That is a pretty small tent. I am guessing that a 500W light will be more than it can handle, and that 350 is as high as you will run the light.

and don't come at me with that MARS hydro stuff, no disrespect

 

[Ca++]

Nothin wrong with the new Mars lights. Your biggest issue is size. That is a pretty small tent. I am guessing that a 500W light will be more than it can handle, and that 350 is as high as you will run the light.

350w could cover a meter. With ~10.75 foot in a meter, and just 4 foot in a 2x2, that 350 is like 950w a meter. If we presume a 2.5umol/w light, that's near 2400umol ppfd

A lot of people switching to LED will underestimate their effectiveness, and produce an environment that's damaging. Many cannabis plants are perfectly happy with 500umol, and 650umol is pretty sweet. By 850umol people start to struggle when following the bottle directions. CO2 growers are running towards 1200umol typically. Some newer findings, have seen linear growth increases to 1700umol, but these are trials by university professors, working in teams to meet demand. 2400umol is the limit of any testing I have seen, and if a newbie can work that... I quit

 

[flylowgethigh]

You don't have to turn the light all the way up. And the height matters a lot with the umoles.

The lights I have are 680 watts, but my 4x4x8'tall tents usually run at 500W at full flowering. Any more and the heat gets out of control.