213 Watt LED Nirvana Northern Lights Grow

[oneshot]

Neat timer! The regular motor-driven dual timers I use have regular contacts that break the power to the Power supply(s); but the hassle is that they have to be re-set after power outages.
I don't see it in the description, but do these keep the program with a battery or non-volatile memory when the power comes back on, or do U have to re-program?
On the Afterglow subject, I'm tryin to figure out how these will fix the E-Shine night-light effect? I guess if the Power supply holds a front-end capacitor charge when switched off, it's enough to keep the LED's lit for awhile. Maybe these fix the afterglow due to the fact that they "bleed" the voltage faster on the input side of the supply? In other words, are the contacts "solid-state", and have a bleed resistor on the output? Not all power supplies are created equal, and they are the weakest link in a LED system after any cooling fans and moving parts, of course.
Meanwhile, back to the future...where's my flux capacitors?

Yes they have a battery in them for backup

 

[hempfield]

Some models have small 'button' type batteries (AG44 if I remember exactly). I have a timer like this which I don't use it anymore since two years due the broken relay inside , but the clock is still running with just a few minutes advance. They are cheap and more versatile than motor driven timers.

 

[stj2006]

Ooh a seed project nice, only done it once but it was really fun!

Just put mine into flower, hoping for some good things to come. .... Our plants are very similar in appearance!

Keep it up bro!
St Jimi

 

[GP73LPC]

Do you intend to collect the pollen and store it until the girls are ready for 'dating' or let him dust the pollen all over the growing place ?

haven't decided yet.

at first i was just gonna let the male have his way, but now i am thinking about saving pollen and being selective.

bought black construction paper and a couple small model paint brushes yesterday while thinking about this very subject.

 

[GP73LPC]

thanks for all the replies on the timer. i will probably invest in one of these digi models soon.

 

[GP73LPC]

Ooh a seed project nice, only done it once but it was really fun!

Just put mine into flower, hoping for some good things to come. .... Our plants are very similar in appearance!

Keep it up bro!
St Jimi

i thought they did look pretty similar, except for my male.

 

[GP73LPC]

i took 4 clones from plant 2 tonight. still waiting on the plant 1 clones to root.

on a side note, my male is still not very healthy. ppm 250, ph @ 5.7.

at this point i am thinking the nutes are way to low. at first i thought for sure i was burning him when he was just inches tall.

help !!!

i will put up a pic tomorrow sometime. 34 days old, about 12 inches tall. very tall and lanky.

either burns or deficiencies on almost all the leave. the latest couple of nodes leaves are okay, but they start to discolor once new ones come out.

any ideas? more nutes is my guess at this point, but i am very confused by this particular plant. haven't had one react quite like this before.

 

[GP73LPC]

ok first the good news. plant 1 and 2 are female

both


plant 1


plant 2 pic was blurry, will post one after the weekend, but trust me she's female !!!

 

[GP73LPC]

now for my concerns, plant 3, the male




top 6 leaves or so are fine, then they deteriorate as you go lower on the plant.




ph 5.7, ppm 285.

are my nutes to low?

this plant has had this problem since it was 3 inches tall

 

[DocZ]

I don't know about your nute or pH levels in DWC, but if I guessed, I would say it's pH, combined with something else, maybe cooler temperature, (the leds make it worse), if there's any fixture hot spots or the new plants are not acclimated when switching to 12/12.
But you have all 3 in the same area.. and nute reservoir?
I know once i switched to 12/12, problems worsened with similar browning of older fan leaves as a final result.
I thought I had off-gassing problems with my tent, (and may have had originally), but also had some leaf Fe and Mg deficiency/ scorch effects and pH (of runoff) rise over 7.7 due to tapwater use and re-cycling with bone meal. I re-did the mix, and let it age a full month before using...definitely greened things up, but still the yellowing and browning, like advanced ripening of leaf only.
I thought adding the 4100K T8's might fill-in a missing spectrum, and warm-up the "on-hours", but not much change. The current run had less of a problem, but still showed lower-leaf yellowing, mostly tips and middle...then browning. It definitely slowed flowering rate! Here is the last run.. and effect i had:

And it cannot be scorching due to proximity, as they were never closer than 18", with most at 24"+.
It appears during transition to flowering, then gets worse without spreading to bud leaves. Transpiration rate in soil definitely dropped... Maybe Mg and Fe or micronutes are low due to lockout?
EWC tea and flush seemed to help the first time, when it was more severe due to recycling.
If it was new tent of-gassing. By now most of the off-gassing should have cleared out, and it would get worse with a higher average day 'lights-on" temp, during veg, not a lower one for flowering. You don't have a tent tho, and it seems to just be the male;

once you get some pollen, not much foliage is needed!

Just some ideas to consider...
Good Luck!

 

[BrownThumb]

I thought 5.8 was as low as you wanted to go w/ your PH, and so I do and no problems with GH flora series in Hempy. The range using the GH FS in ppm is 11 -1300 typically, but I am not sure what you're using and it may be different. The instructions should be close to correct if not dead-on as far as what strength to feed. In hempy...at least the way I read it, you feed full strength from the get-go, so that's what i have been doing. I have seen super slight burning on some leaf tips, but I am not even sure it's nute burn. A bit of clawing here and there, but real healthy just by following the directions and being anal about having a PH of 5.8 or slightly higher. When I tried the MaxiBloom and Grow products, I did the same thing (except for mixing it too strong by looking at the PPM for the liquid nutes, the Flora series instructions by mistake) except I dissolved the powder in hot water then mixed it with the rest of the gallon of water. I took a ppm, dialed that in ( or so i thought) and then PH'd just like w/ the liquid stuff. Other than having to adjust towards base a lot more w/ the powder which was coming in at around 4-4.2 PH, it's the same deal, just making sure I am in the correct range w/ ppm's per the instructions, as well as PH. Yeah, it turns out the powder nutes from GH have a range of a couple hundred points lower for the PPM's and I believe it's across the board, which makes it easy to deal with. Anyway, PH and and PPM's are most likely the answer as you already suspect.

 

[GP73LPC]

I don't know about your nute or pH levels in DWC, but if I guessed, I would say it's pH, combined with something else, maybe cooler temperature, (the leds make it worse), if there's any fixture hot spots or the new plants are not acclimated when switching to 12/12.
But you have all 3 in the same area.. and nute reservoir?
I know once i switched to 12/12, problems worsened with similar browning of older fan leaves as a final result.
I thought I had off-gassing problems with my tent, (and may have had originally), but also had some leaf Fe and Mg deficiency/ scorch effects and pH (of runoff) rise over 7.7 due to tapwater use and re-cycling with bone meal. I re-did the mix, and let it age a full month before using...definitely greened things up, but still the yellowing and browning, like advanced ripening of leaf only.
I thought adding the 4100K T8's might fill-in a missing spectrum, and warm-up the "on-hours", but not much change. The current run had less of a problem, but still showed lower-leaf yellowing, mostly tips and middle...then browning. It definitely slowed flowering rate! Here is the last run.. and effect i had:
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=43781&pictureid=1028467&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]
And it cannot be scorching due to proximity, as they were never closer than 18", with most at 24"+.
It appears during transition to flowering, then gets worse without spreading to bud leaves. Transpiration rate in soil definitely dropped... Maybe Mg and Fe or micronutes are low due to lockout?
EWC tea and flush seemed to help the first time, when it was more severe due to recycling.
If it was new tent of-gassing. By now most of the off-gassing should have cleared out, and it would get worse with a higher average day 'lights-on" temp, during veg, not a lower one for flowering. You don't have a tent tho, and it seems to just be the male;

once you get some pollen, not much foliage is needed!

Just some ideas to consider...
Good Luck!

you also said in a visitor msg:

it looks more like P deficiency, so pH may be higher than ladies reservoir? I looks like it's sucking the deficient nute out of older leaves, whatever it is, and may also have some low Mn too. Have you tried a foliar feeding?

on the subject of PH, i have read so many different opinions that the ranges for ideal DWC can be any where between 5.2 and 6.5. i settled in around 5.7 or 5.8. maybe i should try raising this.

on the subject of reservoirs, they were all three in the same rez until i decided to move the male to it's own in hopes of changing my TDS numbers. i have been running the male a little lower than the females since i initially thought this was nute burn. so the male is separated.

on the subject of scorching, this is definitely not my issue.

on the subject of P, Mn, Mg and Fe, i just don't know. i run the lucas formula and my plants have always looked green and luscious. this particular male and its pheno type may require some adjustment to that formula

i think i will start by raising the PH to see if that helps. won't be able to get to that until late this evening but i will make the adjustment.

thanks man



EDIT: have not tried a foliar feeding, might need to give that a shot.

 

[GP73LPC]

I thought 5.8 was as low as you wanted to go w/ your PH, and so I do and no problems with GH flora series in Hempy. The range using the GH FS in ppm is 11 -1300 typically, but I am not sure what you're using and it may be different. The instructions should be close to correct if not dead-on as far as what strength to feed. In hempy...at least the way I read it, you feed full strength from the get-go, so that's what i have been doing. I have seen super slight burning on some leaf tips, but I am not even sure it's nute burn. A bit of clawing here and there, but real healthy just by following the directions and being anal about having a PH of 5.8 or slightly higher. When I tried the MaxiBloom and Grow products, I did the same thing (except for mixing it too strong by looking at the PPM for the liquid nutes, the Flora series instructions by mistake) except I dissolved the powder in hot water then mixed it with the rest of the gallon of water. I took a ppm, dialed that in ( or so i thought) and then PH'd just like w/ the liquid stuff. Other than having to adjust towards base a lot more w/ the powder which was coming in at around 4-4.2 PH, it's the same deal, just making sure I am in the correct range w/ ppm's per the instructions, as well as PH. Yeah, it turns out the powder nutes from GH have a range of a couple hundred points lower for the PPM's and I believe it's across the board, which makes it easy to deal with. Anyway, PH and and PPM's are most likely the answer as you already suspect.

see the above post regarding PH.

i understand what full nutes in flowering should be and maybe the male is now lacking (and probably is), but what is confusing is this has been occurring since it was a seedling.

here are the general rules i try to follow for nutes:

Seedlings, Early Sprouts 100 to 250
Early Vegging 300 to 400
Full Vegetation 450 to 700
Early Blooming 750 to 950
Full Mature Blooms 1000 to 1600

so it most likely needs a raise in nutes in addition to a PH raise.

btw, i am using GH nutes...

 

[hempfield]

I always keep an eye on this chart to get answers for pH related problems. I try to keep my reservoirs at 5.8 :

 

[BrownThumb]

Hmmm, I may be doing it wrong by going full strength right away, I think even for late seedlings. Then again, i am not too scientific about mixing. I just guesstimate via transfer pipette and so far so good, but I may end up getting burned, literally. It's actually kind of a pain in the ass to have plants at different stages (me) when you're mixing food. Having to mix multiple batches at different strengths and remember which is which and all of that stuff. I also try to use every drop of my feed and come pretty close by collecting the run-off and recycling. There's a downside to that I am sure, build-up perhaps, but I do it anyway. I just have to pay attention which run-off is veg and which is flower. I wonder why hempy would work with full strength pretty much right away, yet people shy away from that a lot in various different forms of hydro. At least, from some of the reading I have done. The logic being fear of burning plants I assume.

 

[GP73LPC]

well i have had the week from hell.

first i started getting sick last monday morning the 11th. by noon i was home, puking and had the runs. couldn't keep anything down (for 3 days).

not only am i fighting this sickness but i arrive home to find the landlord is having some painters work on another property. happens to be down wind from my place and my odor control had failed me sometime that morning.

as i walk up to my place, i can smell weed. i can also see the painters down wind from me giving my a look like 'so ya grow weed, huh?'. i grab an envelope taped to the door, open the door and WOW, smell is quite strong !!!

dammit, a major security breach. and i feel like shit, not working on my odor control. and the note is my advance notice from the landlord that my place will be painted on the exterior.

i crank up an ozone generator but the damage is done. at least 3 dudes smelt it. in the mean time i continue racing to the bathroom for bouts with a stomach virus. i feel like shit and want to lay down, but am worried about my plants now.

i walked outside on my porch and was greeted with a painter walking to and from his truck (down wind) and smiling real big at me.

that's it, i knew i had to cull everything, especially in light of nosey painters on the opposite wall of my every increasingly stinky grow. so the male and two females were pulled and stuffed in a jar and sealed.


advance 3 days and for the first time i eat a little something that doesn't come right back at me. i feel a little better, but still shudder of the thoughts of my breach. i also peek out the window at the painters (who i've heard for a day, but now see). same guys and they are almost done with my place.

well i am quite sorrowed but freedom is far more important. i do not worry that these painters would rip me, but far more likely the boss might report the smell.

i take comfort in the fact i am sick in my bed and not a county jail bed.

sometime between day 3 and 4, still bed and toilet ridden, i remember the clones. so sick i didn't do anything with them. other than they sat in darkness for 72 hours, no problems. then i tip over the tray crushing two stems on the eight.

fast forward 4 more days and i am once again at work, eating and digesting again not to mention i have 7 rooted clones.4 from plant 1 and 3 from plant 2. one with a crushed stem died otherwise i would be 100% on my clones.

so anyway, now i have to build something better. i tried half assing things and got half-assed results.

this time i will have a mother/clone area, a male/s1 area and a flowering chamber. as well as a big baffle box.

so, long story short, looks like we have some females to grow now

 

[hempfield]

Sorry to hear about your illness and I hope you will be OK.

Always put safety on the first place. Spend more time improving your odor control system, with two or more filtering stages (carbon scrubber, ozone neutralization, etc).

Peace !

 

[DocZ]

Hey GP,
I know what you are going thru- I had that stuff for the new year, and it's hard to ditch!
Hope you get better soon!
Also know about the paranoia, real or imagined...stay safe and no regrets man!
Meter readers ripped me once; got my last seed-stock (almost ripe) of smooth creamy, Oaxacan landrace, and had close calls with other health officials that kept me from keeping in a locked, screened greenhouse after that...
I suggest non-visible venting from an inner atrium or roof jack, as well as less skunky genetics, for even better attitude of mind.
Take your meds; Call me in the morning, and time to get that vape going, as U probably don't need any smoke for the respiratory issues....
Take Care of yourself first, then there's always more beans to pop!

 

[GP73LPC]

feeling completely back to normal. no more workers around. no one interested in me. that's all good.

i plan on buying the wood i will need to build a proper cabinet. like i said, i tried half-assing things and it cost me some seeds (that's ok, i have 4 more seeds, surely there is a male in there).

anyway back to the design. i will have a 3'x4'x4' flowering chamber with 213 watts of LED. i will have a 1'x2'x2' mother/clone chamber more than likely powered by CFL's for now, since i have those laying around (some nice cool white LED bulbs later). also, i will have a 1'x2'x2' extra flowering chamber (to be used for males and creating S1's) also to be powered by LED bulbs. and then my point of failure, my baffle box(air cleaning chamber). the key here will be enough square inches of passive exhaust, covered in an inch of activated carbon, to prevent back pressure.

this was the failing point in my last attempt. my passive exhaust was not large enough, causing enough positive pressure in my baffle box it was backing up into my grow chamber (which was not airtight, since it's supposed to be neg pressure) and leaking into the room and eventually outside.

in my fishtank cabinet design, i had a larger baffle box and a larger exhaust, thus it was breathing properly. it had approx 320 sq inches (2.2 sq ft) of activated carbon (1" thick) for exhausting 9 cubic feet of air.

the new baffle box may need to be slightly larger as i will also be exhausting a 2nd grow chamber and veg chamber.

i have the details all worked out in my head. got to start buying supplies and get building as my 7 clones are taking off and already smelling a bit.

this pheno sure is stinky for NL. i haven't grown NL before, but i have grown bogglegum which was fairly easy on the smell and have been told was comparable to NL. if so, i can't tell so...

anyway, off to the store this afternoon.

 

[stj2006]

Glad your back on it and things haven't put you off completely. Must be hard having to cull a crop but by doing so you are saving your ass bigtime! Will be great to see you back up and and growing soon. I guess you will get a good idea of how they will finish up..... I'll keep fighting the good fight for you!

St Jimi