Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?

Sundown said:

I'm searching for something that will get rid of nutrient and hydroton deposits in my recirculating DWCs. The products I'm looking at are Flora Kleen and Hygrozyme. Anyone had any experience with either of those 2? My systems have a seperate res for each plant connected to a central pumping bucket so they're kind of a pain to clean, anything that will extend the time between cleanings would b great.

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Unfortunately I have no experience with Hydro and no hydro based old farts have joined me here to help with hydro questions. I have heard both those product names mention numberous times in discussions I've seen on canna sites about hydro so those brands are at least popular but that's about all I could tell you.

I don't know if this helps but my grow room is in a building that does not have plumbing, it's too much of a hassle to carry water out to the building every time I need to water the plants. So I got a big container (30gal I think) and filled it with water so I'd only have to worry about getting water out there maybe once a week or so. Well after a couple of days when I first started I found that the water would get funky and kind of slimey feeling. I asked around and someone pointed out that it's from sitting stagnent. So I went and bought a little air pump and an air stone and put that in the water running all the time. This kept the water oxygenated and the action of the bubbles in the water kept the water moving. This eliminated the slime build up in the water. My point is doing something similar may help with your cleaning problems. Also I've read that doing this in a hydro res also helps increase the availability of oxygen to the roots which they need for healthy developement.

HempKat- Thanx 4 the input, but oxygenation isn't a problem with mine. I have to let a sample sit 4 a minute or 2 to let the dissolved O2 level drop to get a stable ph reading, otherwise the meter reading bounces around as much as a whole point. I'm just trying to extend the time between system cleanings. My systems have 3.5 gal plant containers sitting atop 5 gal res buckets which are connected to a pumping bucket that pumps nutrient into the plant containers where it runs out an overflow into the 5 gal res buckets to recirculate nutrient solution. Since I run a prepetual gro cleaning the flower system entails moving 4 plants out of the flower room, draining, removing and cleaning all the lines, cleaning all the buckets and pump then putting it all back together. Disturbing to the plants and a pain 4 me so I try to wait as long as possible between cleanings.
Whew, that simple thanx turned into something else. Pardon my rantings, I'm Hi.

Sundown said:

HempKat- Thanx 4 the input, but oxygenation isn't a problem with mine. I have to let a sample sit 4 a minute or 2 to let the dissolved O2 level drop to get a stable ph reading, otherwise the meter reading bounces around as much as a whole point. I'm just trying to extend the time between system cleanings. My systems have 3.5 gal plant containers sitting atop 5 gal res buckets which are connected to a pumping bucket that pumps nutrient into the plant containers where it runs out an overflow into the 5 gal res buckets to recirculate nutrient solution. Since I run a prepetual gro cleaning the flower system entails moving 4 plants out of the flower room, draining, removing and cleaning all the lines, cleaning all the buckets and pump then putting it all back together. Disturbing to the plants and a pain 4 me so I try to wait as long as possible between cleanings.
Whew, that simple thanx turned into something else. Pardon my rantings, I'm Hi.

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No problem, I get carried away too sometimes, especially with sativas. Well like I said I've heard those names mentioned before, by long time hydro growers. I'm sure there's plenty of info about those products to be found via google, remember google is your friend! :smile: I was just figuring that like in nature, or like air in a grow room. If you can keep it moving at a good enough pace it's healthier for the plant. I may be all wrong though, sounds like you know way more about hydro then I do, which is cool. Maybe I'll be asking you questions one day?

how much soil depth should i have for an indoor closet grow, untrained, sativa dominant plant with about 3' of headroom to play with ?

can i save her?

can i save her?

I have a question HempKat.... I have a couple of ladies I'd like to keep around for a long, long, time if at all possible. How exactly would i get one or both of the ladies back into veg after harvesting??? please help! peace, enjoy

Het Hempy
I just paided an arm and a leg for 10 beans and need results.
I'm attempting to start a mother and I thought I'd go to the pro can you give me a step by step? It's probably fairly simple but I want to be sure.
Tks in advanse
Macster

green_grow said:

how much soil depth should i have for an indoor closet grow, untrained, sativa dominant plant with about 3' of headroom to play with ?

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Well you're going to have to grow it pretty much 12/12 from seed to have any chance of getting a sativa dom plant to finish untrained with only 3 feet of head space. I mean really in that limited a height you pretty much have to train most any strain except specialty strains like lowryder. Untrained an average plant indoors likes to get anywhere from 4 to 8 feet tall on average. Now if I were growing out a strain as an untrained plant I would finish it in a minimum of a 5 gallon bucket.

Another option for such limited head room would be SOG which would be pretty much like flowering them from the start but really for a proper SOG you want to work with clones so you can have uniformity. This of course would require two spaces and the mother plant would likely need more then 3 feet of head space.

The only other way I could envision a sativa dominent plant finishing in a 3 foot space without trainning or using some specialized method of growing would be if you gave it weak lights and not much food but your yield would be poor as would the quality so it would be kind of foolish to do that on purpose.

To answer your question, in general terms when growing in soil, the rule of thumb is one gallon of soil per foot of plant. Now that's not exact and there are all sorts of variables but on average one gallon = one foot. So if you have 3 feet to work with then you wouldn't want to use anything bigger then a 3 gallon pot to finish in. There are two factors not accounted for maybe, one one be the height of the pot itself the other would be the space occupied by the light. The light and pots would potentially consume about 2 feet of space in an average grow set up. Another variable is the amount of space between light and plant due to heat. This could take away another 2" to 12" of growing space depending on the light. So when you say 3 feet of head room hopefully that's after factoring in other things as well. If all you got is 3 feet of space total you might as well foget growing sativas untrained. Even trained it would be a challenge with just 3 feet.

With only 3 feet of space I would strongly suggest either SOG or ScrOG style growing. LST could be an option too. Really I would say SOG would be the best choice for just 3 feet of space, but your grow space and technique better be equally tight.

joeshmoe

I think I can help ya out.
Here's a real good thread on revegging.....check it out.


http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=26290


Bh

joeshmoe said:

I have a question HempKat.... I have a couple of ladies I'd like to keep around for a long, long, time if at all possible. How exactly would i get one or both of the ladies back into veg after harvesting??? please help! peace, enjoy

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Well first off those are gorgeous ladies, nice work I can see why you want to keep them around. :smile:

Well if I was really, really desperate to keep her around I might try getting a few clones going it you can find a few. They may not make it having to root and revert at the same time but it's not unheard of.

As far as revegging the harvested plants I've never done that but I'm familiar with the process.

1) harvest like normal but leave a few leaves and popcorn budsites at the lowest point possible on the plant (your new growth will come from these popcorm buds hopefully you have a few real low so you can get the plant down to like maybe 6 inches tall after you cut off the bare stalk above the popcorn buds.

2) Repot the plant trying to break away as much of the old soil as possible without messing up the root system too badly. most people trim anywhere from 1/3rd to 2/3rds of the root system away but this is optional. The thing is, the old root system was bult to support the entire plant before harvest which had much great needs then this little 6" revegger so it's not going to drink like it used to and you may have to go as long as a week between waterings at first, maybe more. If you water too frequently or with too much water you'll risk root root from the water just sitting there waiting to be drank by the plant. By trimming the roots you can put it in a pot more suited to it's size, the roots are more in proportion to the plant and it will encourage alot of new branching developement where the roots were cut making for a stronger root system when the plant gets back to veg.

3) Revert to veg by going from 12/12 to 24/0 or 18/6. People with more experience seem to prefer 24/0 until the plant has fully reverted and then they drop back to 18/6 but you can just go 18/6 all the way thru it just will likely take a bit longer. You would also change them to more of a veg type feeding but early on you'll want to have some flowering ferts mixed in too. You'll want to use weaker then normal doses at first, since there is so little plant there it shouldn't need full strength at first. That's probably where I know the least about reveg though so you should seek out someone who has and/or still actively reveg's their plants for recommended feedings and dosages.

That's pretty much it, the reverting to veg process can take a month or more so patience will be required and then you'll still have to veg her beyond that to get her to the point of flowering again. Also as it reverts the new leaves that first come out will look all twisted and mutated usually, this is normal and as the plant gets more back to veg the leaves will begin to look more normal. In fact I think that's how you judge when reversion is complete.

The whole process is as slow or slower then starting from seed which is why revegging is not widely practiced. It's easier, faster and smarter to keep a mom and keep working from clones. With clones if you time it right, as soon as you harvest one batch, you can have another batch ready to go into flower right behind it, while you start on a new batch of clones to go into the one behind that. Of course that's alot of work and commitment to keep things running like that for long. Personally I like working from seed and just doing one or two nice crops of about 10 plants each per year, that keep me pretty well stocked with quality buddage.

macster said:

Het Hempy
I just paided an arm and a leg for 10 beans and need results.
I'm attempting to start a mother and I thought I'd go to the pro can you give me a step by step? It's probably fairly simple but I want to be sure.
Tks in advanse
Macster

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Well I would first say that I don't think of myself as a pro, at least not in the traditional sense since I just grow for myself and not for resale. I'm nore of a veteran amatuer I guess.

I could potentially give you a step by step but I'd need a whole lot more details then just how many body parts it cost to get the seeds

It would also be impractical to give you a step by step because there is so much to cover that it would take me days to write it all up.

Tell you what though, why don't you describe your grow space, the equipment you have, the medium and ferts and everything. And we can go from there. I also need to know what strain you got, what's the expected flowering time, if it's not a well known strain what are it's traits, what do you want to achieve from your goal, etc.

Also, and pay attention to this, don't be afraid to say you know nothing about growing if that's the case. If you try to act like you are in the know I'm liable to assume things and perhaps leave info out thinking you already know certain things. Everybody is a newb at first, no need to hide it though. Not that I'm saying you are but I don't know if you are or not. Some people act like they think if they admit to being newbs they won't get help.

As for a step by step well if I were inclined to write out a detailed step by step I'd likely want to sell it as a book for my efforts, like I said it would take alot to cover everything. I do check in pretty much every day and if there are questions in this thread I try to answer them. So we could maybe do a step by step thing dsay by day or week by week. The thing is you don't really want to be that dependant on someone. I mean we got holidays coming up. Snow storms that can potentially knock down phone and power lines making it possible to not get on the net at those times. You really need to be able to know what to do or where to find the answers 24/7 because that's how much your plants depend on you.

Anyway like I said, give me some background to work with and we can atleast figure out how to best get you started. :smile:

Sorry Hemp, I should be a little more specific, I'm good after I get I get the seed going,I'm going to grow my mother in soil and move my clippings into hydro, which I'm already (technique) happy with. I lost my clone producer and I've decided to do it myself. Anyhow I could use your advise on just the germination part as I tried a number of other seeds(4) and nothing sprouted and I'm loathed to lose more.
Macster

macster said:

Sorry Hemp, I should be a little more specific, I'm good after I get I get the seed going,I'm going to grow my mother in soil and move my clippings into hydro, which I'm already (technique) happy with. I lost my clone producer and I've decided to do it myself. Anyhow I could use your advise on just the germination part as I tried a number of other seeds(4) and nothing sprouted and I'm loathed to lose more.
Macster

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Well one would have to question the source of the 4 other seeds to really have a clear idea. What I mean is that the other four could have been old, they could have come from some bag you picked up and then there's really no knowing what you'll get. They could have been locally made seeds and not allowed to mature properly.

The point I'm getting at is just because the 4 seeds didn't germinate does not mean your germination style is necessarily bad, the problem could be in those other seeds. There are two main reasons for buying genetics, one is to be assured of working with quality, viable seed and the other is to have access to strains you otherwise couldn't get. So if you bought from a reputable company and your germination process is okay then the seeds should germinate. If not most companies like Gypsy's for example will compensate you with more seed if your germination rate is say below 60% on seed you bought from them.

Anyway as far as the how to part of it there are several ways. I like what is known as the paper towel method, it has always worked well for me. Basically you take a standard paper towel, fold it in half and then fold in half again making it into a rectangle 1/4th the size of the unfolded towel. Now wet that towel with room temp warm clean water. If you want to be real careful go to the store and buy distilled water and use that. Wet the towel completely and then gently sqeeze out just enough water that the towel is completely wet but not dripping wet. Place your seeds that you plan to germinate on one half of the towel and then fold the other half on top sandwiching the seeds in the middle of the paper towel. Paper is cheap so don't try to do too many in one. I'd put no more then 10 seeds in one towel if I were germinating lots of seeds. The seeds are sucking up that moisture to get started and if there's too many then none of them will get enough. Anyway take the folded paper towel with the seeds in it and place that in a zip lock bag or some other form of relatively sealed container. I like the bag because what you can do is get a thumbtack and pin it to the inside of a cabinet door or a drawer. This works good because it puts the seeds in a warm, dark, safe spot which is just where they need to be. If the seeds are good and the water is good then if they aren't germinating the temp must be off. So watch that, you want the air to be warm and humid but not too humid, Kind of like a lockerroom maybe, but minus the smell of course Try to have the temps around 75 to 80 degrees F where the seed are and they should germinate. Basically now you just wait, check them periodically say once every 6 hours and within two days most seeds should germinate you may get ones that are a little slow sometimes though. Even in how they germinate there are differences between strains. There was one strain, I think a skunk strain that fairly routinely took a week to germinate. Oh which reminds me, I meant to say when you check every six hours have a mister handy in case it feels like the towel is drying out, don't go nuts though, just keep things moist. Maybe I should mention too when you fold the towel dont press the sides together too much the emerging root has to fight thru that. Once the seed has put out a root you can transplant it. Handle carefully trying to avoid touching the root. It doesn't have to be a certain length in fact the less time you wait once the root is out, the better usually. Then sow them in your medium about a 1/2 inch deep and I say go ahead and hit the lights as soon as they're in the soil or whatever. Some wait until they come forth but that means you got to keep checking and you might miss the exact moment and the sooner it gets that light the better. I also think the plant can sense the light and so that helps encourage the sprout upwards. From what you say you should be able to take it from there.

Germinating isn't that complicated though the seed is triggered by moisture and tempurature. Roots are light sensitive which is why you put it in a dark place. If your seeds don't germinate it's got to be one of three things or even a combination. Usually the temp is too cool (below 70 degrees F) but in some situations if your water is heavily treated that could cause problems or if your water is not treated and comes from a well it could be rich in minerals and cause problems. Which is why I mentioned distilled water as an option You don't really need to add anything but if you wanted to some kelp based product for organics or superthrive if organics is not a big issue could be added, just a drop or two in the water you soak the towel in originally. Really though just water is fine. If the water is good and the temps are good then either the seeds are bad or you got some sort of radiation thing going on because they should germinate. That is of course if they are viable and I'm assuming you already know dark spotted seeds are the healthiest and light or green colored seeds are not. Another thing, sometimes it helps with seeds if you take them and put them in a dry sealed container and put it in the fridge for a few days before you germinate. This simulates winter to the seed and so sometimes chilling them and letting them warm back up to room temp can kind of jump start them.

That's about all I can think of Feel free to ask question :smile:

tks Hemp
Obviously after they germinate, I want to sex them, How soon after they germ. and what do you look for. I understand I don't have to put them in 12/12 to do this.
Macster

macster said:

tks Hemp
Obviously after they germinate, I want to sex them, How soon after they germ. and what do you look for. I understand I don't have to put them in 12/12 to do this.
Macster

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Well to sex a plant all you really do is let it veg long enough. The problem most people have is an inability to be patient. Generally around the 6th week of veg you can expect to see signs of sec. Some plants are stubburn though and may take longer, I've seen them go as long as 10 weeks before showing. Ones that take more then 8 weeks people tend to just put into flower and watch them to sex there. At least that's how I was taught and that's what I do. Another thing you can do to move a stubburn plant along is to cut the time back a bit, if you are doing 18/6 drop to 16/8. I find that if you run an 18/6 schedule in veg you're less likely to have slow sexing plants then if you run 24/0 or 20/4. 24/0 or 20/4 are good for the first two weeks if you are trying to maximize growth as the plant is establishing itself but after that I drop to 18/6 until flower. The only time I'd bother to nudge the plant along in veg is if there were some reason it was impossible to put them in flower. Once they start to show you got about a week to get males out maybe a bit more, you should know they're males well before that though. Basically all you really need to wait for in veg is the other common sign of maturity known as alternating nodes. As a plant first developes, each node typically puts out two branches and two big fan leaves opposite one another forming a cross shape if looking down from above. As the plant matures around the 5th of 6th week of veg the nodes will begin to alternate putting out one branch and one leaf and then raising up a bit and putting out another single branch and leaf on the opposite side. This alternating section of nodes is what typically forms into the main cola along with the growtip itself. So once you see alternating nodes you can usually go to 12/12 and then just sex in flower rather then wait on them in veg. Of course too there is always the option of forcing them by changing the lights over to flower early on and then back to veg once you sex them. I don't care for that method as it forces the plant to go thru the stress of reverting to veg which can also stunt growth at a time when growth should be vigorous.
Here's an example of alternating nodes:


Below are some pics that should help identify things:

The last photo, when should the plant develope sex parts like these (in veg or after 12/12) ??

macster said:

The last photo, when should the plant develope sex parts like these (in veg or after 12/12) ??

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Well males I have seen go full blown while still in veg. Of the three females examples in that picture, in veg female flowers usually look like the one at the top and the one at the bottom of that picture. The one in the middle is more like the early stages of flowering in 12/12

Hey I got a question......What is ment by stretching...like when someone sayz this strain didnt stretch much...When does stretching occur????? what would be a good size too flower a plant at to avoid stretching....cause I thought the longer you veg for the more yeild u will get.....I dont want stretched out fluffy budz I want rockhard spears....I hope Im not over analyzing the question Am I...idk

Stretching

Stretching

Plants stretch towards the light. Give them enough light and a good airflow and they wont stretch. Also, Know Your Genetics! plants can exhibit different genetic traits even though they came from the same momma. Traits like stretching.

when will the plant strech the most?

tks for the help Hempkat