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Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?

green_grow

Active member
Veteran
my plant got fertilized and went to seed . this probably cut my harvest by 1/2 but it gives me some seeds to play with . some of them are immature, tiny, green and soft. others seem to be mature . 1 of 4 , so far, has sprouted, not the big, meaty schlong of a sprout that i was used to with my Reeferman seeds, but rather small .
my question is this : if a seed sprouts does that mean it is a viable seed ?
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
green_grow said:
my plant got fertilized and went to seed . this probably cut my harvest by 1/2 but it gives me some seeds to play with . some of them are immature, tiny, green and soft. others seem to be mature . 1 of 4 , so far, has sprouted, not the big, meaty schlong of a sprout that i was used to with my Reeferman seeds, but rather small .

Big, meaty schlong of a sprout? :biglaugh: I don't think I ever heard of a sprout refered to in this way. Colas yes, but never a sprout :smile: Anyway I don't feel it's fair to say a fertalized plant give half a yield. In fact they can give a pretty nice size yield on the scale if all the seeds get ripe. I had a crop recently that I tried to hand pollinate certain buds. Unfortunately I misjudged the potency of pollen and my whole crop got pollinated. Still it was pretty damn good weed and a good bit of it, you just had the added hassle of picking out the seeds. Now I'm not a breeder so I'm just giving you my understanding of it, but the key depends on when the females recieve the pollen and start seed developement. You don't want to hit it right as you go to flower because there's still important growth taking place. So you wait a few weeks until you past stretch and then you pollinate. The plant has had more time to develope more bud sites which will give you a decent yield. Generally speaking it takes about three weeks for a seed to fully form and ripen, if you hit it just after stretch then the seeds should have plenty of time to ripen. What I mean by ripen is that the seeds are full size (for it's strain) dark and/or spotted. Seeds that don't fit that description may still grow but you're more likely to have problems. Many people in the habit of making seed say that you shouldn't try to grow them right away. Rather you should seal them in an airtight, moisture free container and store them in a refrigerator for a few days to a few weeks. They say this tricks the seed into thinking it has gone thru winter and this triggers a reaction in them when they warm back up to room temp. Also it's good to give them time and leave them in the bud as you do so, they'll continue to ripen some while the bud is going thru it's early curing stages. I'm not sure that thing about the refigeration is true though because my seeds were so ripe and heavy that every now and then one would fall into the pot it's parent plant was in and sprout. :smile: Another point about seeds is, everyone says that if a crop gets seeded you lose potency and yield. I have not compared enough strains grown with and without seeds grown under the same conditions to make that call. You do lose something in that a certain amount of the plant's resources go towards seed production that otherwise would have gone to more bud production. I guess it helps to think of things from the plant's perspective. It doesn't know you and there is no evidence a plant has any sort of consiousness, it doesn't know about getting high or that we want it to put out more triches. It's got a very basic drive, grow big, tall and bushy real quick to dominate an area so it can soak up as much sun before flower as possible, if it's a male it likely begins to work on developing pollen before the females flower, once flowering begins the females sole objective is to pump out flowers that in turn put out pistils (the hairs) which catch the pollen. Pistils have a short life span and therefore if a plant does not get fertalized it cranks out more and more flowers, this is what most growers want their plants to do all the way thru. Now once a plant gets pollinated or once you get beyond a certain point into flower the emphasis changes from pumping out flowers to pumping out resin. The resin to the plant is all about insulation and protection, that's why it concentrates at the bud sites and the surrounding leaves. If the plant is fertalized it's basically making sure the seeds and the flowers incubating them are well protected long enough for them to ripen. If it's not pollinated it's trying to protect the flowers long enough to hopefully become pollinated. Some plants will even go as far as becoming hermies to pollinate themselves aftar having gone beyond a normal flowering without becoming pollinated.

green_grow said:
my question is this : if a seed sprouts does that mean it is a viable seed ?

For the most part yes, but that's assuming that the seeds have been screened and poor candidates have been removed. Like I said, a less then healthy seed can sprout but it's more likely to give you problems. I don't think it's fair to call something viable though if it sprouts but then dies a few days later.

Damn, looks like I got carried away, that's it, no more sativa's while online :D
 

green_grow

Active member
Veteran
hehehehehe ... good ramble, bro !
when i say that my harvest was cut in half that is, of course, just a very rough guesstimate . one thing is for sure, when the pollen hit this plant it stopped growing and started putting all it's energy into seed production. nonetheless, i am really quite happy with what i got from just one plant under just 1 x 150hps and 2 x 27cfl and a first-time grow . now if i can be patient during the cure all should be well .


 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
green_grow said:
hehehehehe ... good ramble, bro !
when i say that my harvest was cut in half that is, of course, just a very rough guesstimate . one thing is for sure, when the pollen hit this plant it stopped growing and started putting all it's energy into seed production. nonetheless, i am really quite happy with what i got from just one plant under just 1 x 150hps and 2 x 27cfl and a first-time grow . now if i can be patient during the cure all should be well .



Well try to leave them be as much as possible, I'm thinking some of those seeds might ripen still.
 
Hey Hempkat, here's a question. Can you recommend some good books on cannabis genetics/breeding? How to work with mothers and look for the best genes/phenos etc? Also, can you describe your method for this?
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
personalmeds said:
Hey Hempkat, here's a question. Can you recommend some good books on cannabis genetics/breeding? How to work with mothers and look for the best genes/phenos etc? Also, can you describe your method for this?


Sorry can't help you there, I was never into breeding really. I mean I've made seeds but just with the goal of having future crops and not to promote a particular characteristic or trait. Being that I never sought to do more then generate a few seeds I never felt compelled to seek out a book on breeding. All I can tell you there is that I have heard from several people I respect for growing knowledge that says Jorge Cervantes' new book has an excellent breeding section with lots of good info from Chimera.
 

green_grow

Active member
Veteran
i started my seedlings under cfl at 24/0 lighting for 3 days. i am putting them under the hps tonight. i decided i would like to go 18/6 for veg. can i get away with this change of light schedule after having already had them under 24/0 , or do i have to stay with 24/0 now until flower ?
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
green_grow said:
i started my seedlings under cfl at 24/0 lighting for 3 days. i am putting them under the hps tonight. i decided i would like to go 18/6 for veg. can i get away with this change of light schedule after having already had them under 24/0 , or do i have to stay with 24/0 now until flower ?

No, you can change it, as long as it's 14 or more hours it shouldn't trigger flowering. You just don't want to be changing it alot. You say you only had them under cfl's for 3 days. If so then let them stay there a bit longer and keep them on 24/0 for now is my advice. Many growers myself included, like to do young seedlings and clones under fluoros 24/0 for 2 weeks. Then switch to your HID for however long you plan to veg them. Switching to 18/6, then of course go on to 12/12 when you go to flower.
 

fatboyOGOF

Member
howdy.

i usually do 24/7 for veg. twice i experimented (due to heat problems) with my clones and after 6 weeks or so of 24/7 switched to 19 on 5 off. all flowered. i'm throwing the last of them into flower cycle in a couple weeks. i can't even get the buggers to reveg. i've tied them down hoping for new growth but nada. very bummed. i have to do some serious reading on why i can't get them to reveg. they just pretty much stop growing and will end up as runts. pretty runts, but runts.

the next batch will be 18/6 from the time the seedlings are 2 weeks old or so. i've read too much about them needing a night cycle for good root growth. i need roots damn it! :)
 

the cult

Member
yellow leaves when rootbound

yellow leaves when rootbound

hello,

im just curious why plants being rootbound get yellow leaves? one would think that its because of nutrient deficiencies, but i have always experienced yellowing bottom leaves when the plants are rootbound despite feeding them the full canna kit according to their nute schedule. what actually happens?

thanks
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
fatboyOGOF said:
howdy.

i usually do 24/7 for veg. twice i experimented (due to heat problems) with my clones and after 6 weeks or so of 24/7 switched to 19 on 5 off. all flowered. i'm throwing the last of them into flower cycle in a couple weeks. i can't even get the buggers to reveg. i've tied them down hoping for new growth but nada. very bummed. i have to do some serious reading on why i can't get them to reveg. they just pretty much stop growing and will end up as runts. pretty runts, but runts.

the next batch will be 18/6 from the time the seedlings are 2 weeks old or so. i've read too much about them needing a night cycle for good root growth. i need roots damn it! :)

Well if root developement is the problem then the first things that pop into my mind is perhaps you are watering too often and/or perhaps the soil composition is too dense for the roots to work thru and not enough oxygen is getting to the roots? Also poor plant developement could be the result of poor air circulation/ventilation. I'm assuming you have at least the basics down on light type, strength, distance as well as feeding and general care? Since alot of things could cause the plant to not do well. If the lighting was good usually after 6 weeks a clone should be ready to flower. Another thing too is maybe you are expecting more from this strain then it's genetically capable of. I've grown a number of strains indoors and each and every one responded differently. Some reach a certain height and just won't go further while others you find yourself praying after two weeks of flower, that they stop growing. :smile:

As for the revegging thing, how long did you let them try to reveg? Depending on how far along they are into flower reverting to veg can take as long as a month maybe a bit longer in rare cases. That's why so few people reveg their plants unless they have no other way of preserving genetics. It's usually faster to just start a new plant from seed.

Now why they flowered when you went to 19/5 I'm not sure of, I've never had that happen. Then again I've never done 24/0 on clones for longer then 2 weeks. My guess is that clones being more mature, due to being taken from mature plants, might be more sensitive to sudden light changes. So in the future, especially with that strain you may want to change the light schedule more gradually like an hour a day or 30 minutes a day.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
the cult said:
hello,

im just curious why plants being rootbound get yellow leaves? one would think that its because of nutrient deficiencies, but i have always experienced yellowing bottom leaves when the plants are rootbound despite feeding them the full canna kit according to their nute schedule. what actually happens?

thanks

I'm not sure since I've never let a plant get that rootbound. My guess based on my understanding of what's going on with the plant is one of two things. At the point a plant is getting excessively rootbound it's trying to grow faster or more then the pot will allow, so it's nutritional requirements have also grown and if that isn't adjusted for the plant has to get the nutrients from somewhere. Also a plant that rootbound usually requires watering every day where normally you want it to be every 3 or 4 days, with soil anyway. Overwatering can also cause yellowing leaves, so maybe due to the volume of fluid passing thru the plant, it is like being overwatered to the lower leaves while the upper growth still looks fine. There are also more common causes not necessarily directly related to being rootbound such as lower leaves on a big bushy plant often yellow and die off due to lack of light. Or that it usually takes a while for a plant to become that rootbound and if it has been long enough some leaves may be dying off as part of a normal aging process. Also rootbound plants are often overly dense and leafy so some leaf loss could be due to poor air circulation thru the plant.

The way I figure it though, rootbound, is a condition one should avoid rather then achieve, I find if you stick with a routine of transplanting once about halfway thru veg, and then once more just before flower, you manage to avoid dealing with being rootbound provided of course you are giving the roots more space to grow when you transplant of course.
 

the cult

Member
ok, thanks hempcat, some good brainstroming.
fact is i grow in 2 gallon containers, and plants usually outgrow these in 2 weeks of veg. i dont overwater, 1 time a week is enough, but i notice yellow leaves once the plant is out of room for roots, and even tho i feed them fully, i see yellow leaves every time they are rootbound.

got more for you. its about ph.

does normal water have buffering qualities? i like my ph to go low, 5.5 or even lower, but even when i lower normal water i come back a day later to find its ph value risen. does normal water contain buffering qualities?

how does a buffer work? when i mix my nutes and lower ph to lets say 5.3, i leave maybe half container for next watering, naturally the buffer in the nutes have raised the ph to maybe 6.2, i add just a drop of ph down, and end up with a poisonous level of maybe 4.1. it seems the ph isnt really changed by the buffer, but it just manages to maintain it at a higher level than it actually is, and by a drop it goes down terribly much. its a pest as im running more plants than before and like to mix in a huge container for maybe 2 waterings. so how does the buffer actually work?

cheers, and thx again
 
Last edited:

gr0wm4g3

Member
I've got a guerilla growing question...

I need a method to take out a good 5 lbs from my harvest - all not yet dried. I was thinking maybe I could somehow make a false bottom in an icechest but then I would have to remold it or something and I'm not sure how to do that. Do the old farts have any ideas on how to stealthily move out about 5 lbs of harvested buds?

BTW my cover is a fisherman, that's why I had the icechest idea.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
the cult said:
ok, thanks hempcat, some good brainstroming.
fact is i grow in 2 gallon containers, and plants usually outgrow these in 2 weeks of veg. i dont overwater, 1 time a week is enough, but i notice yellow leaves once the plant is out of room for roots, and even tho i feed them fully, i see yellow leaves every time they are rootbound.

got more for you. its about ph.

does normal water have buffering qualities? i like my ph to go low, 5.5 or even lower, but even when i lower normal water i come back a day later to find its ph value risen. does normal water contain buffering qualities?

how does a buffer work? when i mix my nutes and lower ph to lets say 5.3, i leave maybe half container for next watering, naturally the buffer in the nutes have raised the ph to maybe 6.2, i add just a drop of ph down, and end up with a poisonous level of maybe 4.1. it seems the ph isnt really changed by the buffer, but it just manages to maintain it at a higher level than it actually is, and by a drop it goes down terribly much. its a pest as im running more plants than before and like to mix in a huge container for maybe 2 waterings. so how does the buffer actually work?

cheers, and thx again

Man you really like to delve into the technical stuff? :smile: Well first of all it's my understanding that leaving nutes to use in a future watering is a bad idea and not recommended. Also if you are growing in soil you want it right at 6.2, that's about perfect. 5.3 or 5.5 is only good for hydro or soiless applications but those definately involve watering more then once a week.

As for buffers my knowledge of how exactly they work is limited. All I know about is that soil to a large degree acts as a buffer likely due to it's composition (what's in it). The diets we tend to feed our plants often likes to lean acidic (lower ph) so it's a common practice to add dolomite lime to the soil. It is very high in ph but in small concentrations gradually releases enough of what raises the ph helping to keep the soil close to nuetral when the ferts want to make it go acidic. So how radical the change is depends on what it is you adjust ph with and how strong it is. I think if you were to look at the ph of pure dolomite lime it comes in at around 11 or extremely alkaline but you only use like one or two tablespoons per gallon of soil mix and so it keeps the ph right around 6.2 to 6.7 How radical the change is probably depends on the form it's in. Dolomite lime is in it's natural state and as such releases what it releases over time as it breaks down in the soil. PH up and down are meant to adjust ph values radically and quickly so are likely highly concentrated and fast acting.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
gr0wm4g3 said:
I've got a guerilla growing question...

I need a method to take out a good 5 lbs from my harvest - all not yet dried. I was thinking maybe I could somehow make a false bottom in an icechest but then I would have to remold it or something and I'm not sure how to do that. Do the old farts have any ideas on how to stealthily move out about 5 lbs of harvested buds?

BTW my cover is a fisherman, that's why I had the icechest idea.

Sorry, I for one don't have any. In the times I've grown outdoors I always managed to be in a situation where I didn't have to hide things that much. I'd just take a few big boxes with me and cut things down just enough to pack them in the boxes and get home to trim it up.
 
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