TIMER FOR 1000 WATT HPS THAT WONT BURN HOUSE DOWN!?

NFR · Mar 7, 2010

NiteTiger said:
What does 240 have to do with a 120v timer?

Because 240 has been discussed all over this thread. It was mentioned that the location was an apartment(if I understood correct?) and there is easy access to 240 then. So there are many more safe options is my point. Also, 240 from that outlet can be split to 120v....another solution that gives you access that can give confidence that you are running heavy duty all the way to the main panel. I'm natural problem solver....

I've run a couple of shows off a laundry room before.

NFR · Mar 7, 2010

milehighmedical said:
It's always kinda warm... but not really warm. You know?

Sigh, now I have to stay up till lights turn off again. Waiting for the damn house to burn down.

It's warm because the contacs are so thin in those types of timers. Heat means that you are not likely getting efficient draw like when you use wire too thin for it's purpose. I like the idea of big screws on top of contacts several times thicker. When a magnetic ballast first kicks on, the draw is heavy for the first 20-40 minutes. With other equipment on as well you are really taxing these so called heavy duty timers.

I cant remember if it was mentioned what type of ballast was being used...I'm losing track and will have to read this thread again I think.

Avenger · Mar 7, 2010

When a magnetic ballast first kicks on, the draw is heavy for the first 20-40 minutes.

Actually, the inrush current only lasts a few seconds at the very longest, and generallly only a few milliseconds. After the magnetic ballasts transformer coil has reached saturation and the magnetic flux is stabilized(for lack of a better term), then the current slowly increases until the lamp reaches the full current draw and is limited by the ballast.

With magnetic ballasts inrush current can be as much as 10-20 times the normal operating current.

With electronic ballasts the inrush current can be as high as 100 times the normal operating current. Unless zero cross switching(soft start) circuitry is applied, electronic ballasts are much more of an inrush current problem than magnetic ballasts.

Shcrews · Mar 7, 2010

ecoplus digital timer is what you need... i have been using these with 1KW's for a couple years, no issues

$20

never seen one short out with only one light plugged in..

but don't plug in 2. trust me

NFR · Mar 7, 2010

Avenger said:
Actually, the inrush current only lasts a few seconds at the very longest, and generallly only a few milliseconds. After the magnetic ballasts transformer coil has reached saturation and the magnetic flux is stabilized(for lack of a better term), then the current slowly increases until the lamp reaches the full current draw and is limited by the ballast.

With magnetic ballasts inrush current can be as much as 10-20 times the normal operating current.

With electronic ballasts the inrush current can be as high as 100 times the normal operating current. Unless zero cross switching(soft start) circuitry is applied, electronic ballasts are much more of an inrush current problem than magnetic ballasts.

I never knew that. I've yet to research using electronic ballasts because of cost. Now there is a second reason...Thanks.

Maj.Cottonmouth · Mar 7, 2010

I have been using two of these "heavy duty" digital timers from HomeDePot and they seem to work fine. One is running a 1000W HPS and and radio and the other is running two 400W CMH ballasts. I have only had the timers for two weeks but no problems yet.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

RugerBaby · Mar 7, 2010

oh no!! Now im shitting my pants because im using a cheap timer with my 600w hps!! What would be a cheap yet safe option for a 600?? I run my 600 by itself on one outlet and my fans, and t5's on another. And my 5 yr old's safety is number one. So, what do you guys think?

madpenguin · Mar 7, 2010

Sorry Speedcat but I'm going to post your PM to me along with my reply. I really don't like PM's because no one else will benefit from it.

Speedcat said:
I wanted to tell you that I am also using a digital ballast. Wondering if that makes a difference at all? So will this http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/cap-upm1-120v-universal-power-module-p-1392.html work on my 120 volt outlet? what makes it safer that just pluging ion the ballast to the wall. Will this like distribute the power to the timer safer or something? also is my wiring in my 120volt outlet safe with this and the ballast hooked up?...

Well... There is a relay inside that box. There will be a 16' cable that comes out of that box. find another receptacle. Plug your timer into it. Then plug that 16' trigger cable into the timer. Plug that module box directly into the receptacle that you want to use for your ballasts. Plug your ballast directly into the power module box. All the timer does is send a miniscule ammount of power to the center contacts of the relay that is inside that box. Once the relay recieves power form the timer, the contacts close and the receptacles on the power module become "hot".

So, in short. The ballast will draw directly off the wall receptacle that the power module is plugged into. The timer will only see a quarter of an amp or less because all it does is close the contacts of the relay.

You'll never have another melted timer going this route. But my main concern is those 2 receptacles on that power module. They are kinda cheap looking to me. You could still have a meltdown... It won't be the timer but possibly the power module receptacles instead....

BTW, you can only safely fit ONE 1kw ballast on a 15A 120v circuit. That's a dedicated circuit that isn't being used for anything else mind you.

renz · Mar 7, 2010

RugerBaby said:
oh no!! Now im shitting my pants because im using a cheap timer with my 600w hps!! What would be a cheap yet safe option for a 600?? I run my 600 by itself on one outlet and my fans, and t5's on another. And my 5 yr old's safety is number one. So, what do you guys think?

Cheap and simple would be using the mechanical timer to trigger the control side of a heavy duty 20A+ relay, either solid-state or mechanical.

However, even though wiring up the relay would be simple to explain, if you do not feel comfortable wiring up mains power, don't. You'll die. Ask someone with experience.

You will also need to fabricate an enclosure for the device to guarantee safety. A NEMA box or similar is probably a good solution, however something functional and safe could be made for less.

Again, if you are not sure about it, you don't have confidence in your abilities to wire this up, don't do it. You'll die.

MaynardG_Krebs · Mar 7, 2010

Speedcat said:
after reading th emany useless threads on timers. Im Looking for EXACTLY the timmer im about to decribe. I need a DIGITAL timer that PLUGS into a outlet that can handle a 1000 watt HPS light. The only good thing ive read in the threads about waht timers to buy is that even tho 90% of all the timers on the market are rated for 1500 watts ect, they will fucking burn out anyways running 1000 watts on a continous cycle like 18 hours on every day. So from some one running 1000 watts or more on a digital timer, what are you using or if you know of one where can I get a absolute fail proof, wont burn your shit down digital plug in wall timer. IM not fucking around with electrical shit so Im absolutely not going to wire a heavy duty one in.m I dont care if I have to order it fvrom europe and it cost $500 I want a timer that is plug n play ready thats digital and will not burn out and overload like the other timer out their.

I found this listing on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/HYDROFARM-HYDRO...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2ea9522763

I have this timer on a 600 hps and it works really nice. It says it's max is 960 watts, so I'm not sure how far you want to push that. I would be willing to bet it would work flawlessly.

mgk :tiphat:

renz · Mar 7, 2010

madpenguin said:
So, in short. The ballast will draw directly off the wall receptacle that the power module is plugged into. The timer will only see a quarter of an amp or less because all it does is close the contacts of the relay.

Agreed on this method, as I posted above.

This is the only safe option if you are not confident in your mechanical timers current specs but do not want to produce your own timing solution (it can be accomplished with a $1 microcontroller and a crystal timing source with high degree of accuracy, probably better than the mechanical units).

madpenguin · Mar 7, 2010

BTW, I use these timers everywhere.

http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/ecoplus-120v-15-amp-onoff-digital-dual-timer-p-2013.html

They are rebranded depending on where you buy them. If you buy one from hydrofarm, they will come with a hydrofarm sticker on them. If you buy one from HTG, they will have an HTG sticker on them.

I have a 600w digital ballast plugged into either side. Been running that way for a year now.

Will it burn up eventually? I don't know... Am I taking a risk by using it with 2 - 600w's? Yea, I am.....

A heavy duty mechanical timer hooked up to a spec grade 20A receptacle in a steel enclosure is the only way your going to stay as safe as you can IMO....

Look at the light controller post in my sig. Make a miniaturized version of that and you can sleep safe at night. One timer, one 20A receptacle, one 30A relay in a 6x6x4 enclosure. If you like getting tricky, you could probably even cut out the front cover with some strategic dremel work so as to mount a timer and a duplex or simplex receptacle to the front cover from the back side. I'd probably pop rivet it but screws will work just as well. I think both might just clear the top side of the relay. Dunno tho.

That way, you'd just have a 6x6x4 enclosure with an appropriate rated flexible cord coming out of it to plug into the wall. That would fire the relay and the timer but the timer would still only be seeing milliamps worth of current.

renz · Mar 8, 2010

MaynardG_Krebs said:
I have this timer on a 600 hps and it works really nice. It says it's max is 960 watts, so I'm not sure how far you want to push that. I would be willing to bet it would work flawlessly.

I wouldn't -- most foreign manufacturers probably consider 1-5% failure rate vs their specs a pretty good achievement, and most domestic importers probably don't give a shit enough to test.

So 100 of us buy timers, and 1 to 5 fail, its maybe normal. They may even be happy to ship you a brand new one to set stuff on fire with...

renz · Mar 8, 2010

Also that consider that a fire produced by a mechanical timer might not even really an issue with a mechanical timer, at all, if its plugged into a standard household 120VAC outlet.

Corrosion in the outlet or on the timers prongs, such as oxidation, and worn contacts creating tiny air gaps would not be an uncommon situation. If this is the case, any timing solution, no matter how high in current rating, is capable of producing a fire.

MaynardG_Krebs · Mar 8, 2010

renz said:
I wouldn't -- most foreign manufacturers probably consider 1-5% failure rate vs their specs a pretty good achievement, and most domestic importers probably don't give a shit enough to test.

So 100 of us buy timers, and 1 to 5 fail, its maybe normal. They may even be happy to ship you a brand new one to set stuff on fire with...

So, just for my edification, what brands or makes are U.S. made and able to handle this load? oops.. never mind... I just re read the thread.. my bad..

mgk :shucks:

renz · Mar 8, 2010

No idea.

Made in the USA doesn't mean quality anymore.

In fact, you can safely assume made in the USA means 'we had to cut major corners somewhere just to be able to sell this competitively and not go out of business.'

The truth sucks. I feel worse about it every day.

jarff · Mar 8, 2010

http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp
easy cheap and safe....

RugerBaby · Mar 8, 2010

renz said:
Cheap and simple would be using the mechanical timer to trigger the control side of a heavy duty 20A+ relay, either solid-state or mechanical.

However, even though wiring up the relay would be simple to explain, if you do not feel comfortable wiring up mains power, don't. You'll die. Ask someone with experience.

You will also need to fabricate an enclosure for the device to guarantee safety. A NEMA box or similar is probably a good solution, however something functional and safe could be made for less.

Again, if you are not sure about it, you don't have confidence in your abilities to wire this up, don't do it. You'll die.

Yeah, im not too fond of messing around with wires. Maybe I can find somebody to do this. Thanks

NiteTiger · Mar 8, 2010

NFR said:
Because 240 has been discussed all over this thread.

Fair enough, that's what I get for skimming the thread. :redface:

RugerBaby · Mar 8, 2010

I think im just gonna can my grow.. out of 4 plants, 2 are males and 2 not sure yet. If I would have known this, I probably wouldn't of spent the $$ on all my gear. I don't have any buddies that are electricians and don't wanna mess with any wiring. Thanks for the info.

BTW my "heavy duty" timer says its total ratings are
15a general purpose
15a resistive
1250w tungsten
1/3 hp

TIMER FOR 1000 WATT HPS THAT WONT BURN HOUSE DOWN!?

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