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The search for a proper recovery pump..
- Thread starter HighStateToke
- Start date
Wrapping the coil around the tank is an interesting choice. I figured you would be able to conduct more heat away from the tank by submerging it in a dry ice/iso slurry because of surface area exposed....but I guess if its chilled before the run starts you may have something there. I'm a little naive as to your tank pressure goals.[/quote]
The tank is sitting in liquid, so the coils around it are conducting away the heat from the liquid.
Just the coils wouldn't have intimate contact unless brazed to the tank walls, so wouldn't work as well.
At low temperatures, there is virtually no n-Butane pressure beyond that which we create with our push pull, but the greater issue is that as the temperature drops, butane gets thicker and harder to push pull.
It is easier if only the butane passing through the column is thickened, so chilling it immediately before injecting would ostensibly satisfy that need, which the use of N2 in a counter flow heat exchanger could easily do.
The rest of the chilling is just to return the butane back to a liquid as rapidly as possible, with the least amount of pumping. We have to remove not only the heat gained in the process, but heat of compression and the latent heat of vaporization as well.
The tank is sitting in liquid, so the coils around it are conducting away the heat from the liquid.
Just the coils wouldn't have intimate contact unless brazed to the tank walls, so wouldn't work as well.
At low temperatures, there is virtually no n-Butane pressure beyond that which we create with our push pull, but the greater issue is that as the temperature drops, butane gets thicker and harder to push pull.
It is easier if only the butane passing through the column is thickened, so chilling it immediately before injecting would ostensibly satisfy that need, which the use of N2 in a counter flow heat exchanger could easily do.
The rest of the chilling is just to return the butane back to a liquid as rapidly as possible, with the least amount of pumping. We have to remove not only the heat gained in the process, but heat of compression and the latent heat of vaporization as well.
Love it!! Thats a whole lotta coil 
so stoked about the new shop! gonna be moving my machiens into the new warehouse with another member of skunk pharm....and wouldnt luck have it that theres already a dedicated 150 amp breaker for the preinstalled air compressor that can run 4-6 haskels at a time full power..... these gasts are gonna make nice door stops and vac pumps once i upgrade to the haskels and not have to worry about how finaky the pressure sensativity of the gast is any more! once we get the demand regulators working that should alleviate the problems but that day hasnt come yet. having to keep the gast pump under 30 psi to not blow the compressor is like having a ferrari and saying you can only go 15 under the speed limit lol
Chonkski
Member
Very jealous! Thats my next step, although it's not as easy for me in California. I have been considering moving up that way. I have a lot of buddies up there. And now I have two systems and endless work at hand. Definitely time to step up into a more proper shop.
Congratulations friend! I can only imagine how you must feel right now.
Sneaky use a 1/2" npt threaded back pressure regulator with a Cv of 1.0 they cost between 800 - 1200 new if you go the stainless steel route, they can handle the cfm of the gast you need to build a manifold and have your purge / high vacuum pump setup before the regulator.
I also recommend having both the gast and the appion or promax in a sealed compartment flooded with co2 to displace oxygen and illiminate potential fire hazards in the event of a leak from either the 1st or second stage pumps, if you are rocking condenser coils / heat exchangers you dont need to worry much about the pumps overheating. in an enclosed co2 filled environment.
Best regards and safe extracting to you all
I also recommend having both the gast and the appion or promax in a sealed compartment flooded with co2 to displace oxygen and illiminate potential fire hazards in the event of a leak from either the 1st or second stage pumps, if you are rocking condenser coils / heat exchangers you dont need to worry much about the pumps overheating. in an enclosed co2 filled environment.
Best regards and safe extracting to you all
Link for regulator?
http://www.swagelok.com/products/re...ng-dome-loaded/high-purity-high-flow-gas.aspx
http://www.swagelok.com/search/find_products_home.aspx?part=KFB1C0A8A8A20000
you can swap out the springs in these to change the pressure ranges.
http://www.swagelok.com/search/find_products_home.aspx?part=KFB1C0A8A8A20000
you can swap out the springs in these to change the pressure ranges.
I just noticed air conditioner heat pumps are available with scroll compressors,
http://www.amazon.com/Ton-Seer-Good...UTF8&qid=1413658313&sr=8-8&keywords=heat+pump
So, why can't a scroll compressor be used?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scroll_compressor
Surely these things are available in an oilless, or sealed so as to be oilless design.
http://www.amazon.com/Ton-Seer-Good...UTF8&qid=1413658313&sr=8-8&keywords=heat+pump
So, why can't a scroll compressor be used?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scroll_compressor
Surely these things are available in an oilless, or sealed so as to be oilless design.
the high flow regulator wont work, it has a max operating pressure of 10 psig which is only 24 psi, the system regularly gets over 40-50 when heating the columns so it wouldnt work, but i do see some models that could handle the pressure
the difference between a regulator and a demand regulator is the key here. a demand regulator is like a scuba regulator, there is pressure behind the regulator but until it is pulled from the other side it wont release where as the standard regulator only allows for X amount of pressure to be allowed to pass through constantly instead of "on demand". with the demand regulator this means that the pump is not under constant pressure which would extend the longevity of the gast pump life seeing as the gast pump was actually designed to be used at atmosphere and not under any pressure at all and thats what blew out the compressor on the 1st one.
theres 2 pumps we are currently looking at that could possibly be the next upgrade, however the price of one of them is so staggering that i will only test one if it is a loaner from the company to test the compatability.
sneaky,. with spring A inlet pressure can be up to 100 psi and outlet pressure can be between vacuum to 25 psi
check it out
http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webcatalogs/en/ms-02-157.pdf
these are pressure reducing regulators
check it out
http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webcatalogs/en/ms-02-157.pdf
these are pressure reducing regulators
sweeeeeet! theyll be getting a call about this in the morning! thanks for the link hope thisll solve the problem
Dab Strudel
Active member
So after chewing the fat with a couple of friends I have been lead to this pump... http://www.fishersci.com/ecomm/servlet/fsproductdetail_10652_4432555__-1_0
Mr Gee Dubyuh have you ever taken this pump into consideration?
Mr Gee Dubyuh have you ever taken this pump into consideration?
This pump has come up before. It is a great vacuum pump for chemical duty, it is not a refrigerant recovery pump, so you cant use it to replace the recovery pump.
You can use it for your vacuum and purge pump, but you can get one that is a lot more powerful for a lot less money.
You can use it for your vacuum and purge pump, but you can get one that is a lot more powerful for a lot less money.
Is there any benefit to having the oil catch, line dier, and sight glass, that come with the tra21, or is that much filtering unnecessary in our application, this kit from cps(tra21) also includes guages, a 30lb tank, and lines!(not SS) but would get me up and running quickly. I also like the "cart" that the filters are attatched to. Any input on this set-up would be appreciated.
Yes and as noted, it is no replacement for a refrigerant pump and Welsh actually has a Duo seal line that would work even better, though it also doesn't have the output pressure to replace a refrigerant pump either.
The bad news is that it is around $4100, and also not oil less, but the good news is that Welsh will rate it for R-600.
We are currently testing a refrigeration pump rated for R-600, which is not oil less and we are running hemp seed oil in it.
It is faster than the Appion, and super quite by comparison, so we are using one to test new machines with only spent material in them, and will continue to send out samples of the recovered butane for testing, to see what residuals or breakdown products it may add with time.
We also have a larger oil less pump scheduled for testing when it arrives.
Chonkski
Member
Very exciting!
I plan on getting one of those welsh dry fast pumps with my Rotavap, haha!
I looked at scroll compressors closely in the beginning. They would be great for recovery except they don't pull vacuum. There may have been some other issues but I'd have to look through past research.
Although you may be on to something. Do most of the recovery with a scroll compressor, switch to a piston type recovery pump to go down to 20 inches and then us a vane type vacuum pump to recover the last bit.
Although the last bit recovered with a vane pump won't be oil free and would need re-distillation and carbon filtering.
But the cost of those three units wold be less than a Haskell and big compressor. Not to mention the operating cost.
RB
