600w to 1000w...Questions

[newtothiscoco]

A day in the Sun is far more harmful. Let's not get carried away.

...I do love the beach.

trying to talk around it with sun talk.- ?

thats not the point here. you just told a dude that it was healthy to stand under a MH ... are you real dude.

 

[Drek]

 

[newtothiscoco]

How the Sunlight Affects Plant Growth

200 - 280 nm = UVC ultraviolet range which is extremely harmful to plants because it is highly toxic.

280 - 315 nm = Includes harmful UVB ultraviolet light which causes plants colors to fade.

315 - 380 nm = Range of UVA ultraviolet light which is neither harmful nor beneficial to plant growth.

380 - 400 nm = Start of visible light spectrum. Process of chlorophyll absorption begins. UV protected plastics ideally block out any light below this range.

400 - 520 nm = This range includes violet, blue, and green bands. Peak absorption by chlorophyll occurs, and a strong influence on photosynthesis. (promotes vegetative growth)

520 - 610 nm = This range includes the green, yellow, and orange bands and has less absorption by pigments.

610 - 720 nm = This is the red band. Large amount of absorption by chlorophyll occurs, and most significant influence on photosynthesis. (promotes flowering and budding)

720 - 1000 nm = There is little absorption by chlorophyll here. Flowering and germination is influenced. At the high end of the band is infrared, which is heat.

1000+ nm = Totally infrared range. All energy absorbed at this point is converted to heat.

good luck with it all

 

[Drek]

Dude, the lamps are engineered to be used in public places.

They emit extremely limited amounts of UVC & UVB radiation.

It's called humour. And I don't like your sense of it.

Peace out.

 

[newtothiscoco]

Dude, the lamps are engineered to be used in public places.

They emit extremely limited amounts of UVA and UVB.

It's called humour. And I don't like your sense of it.

Peace out.

so you are telling me you think its fun that you said it was healthy to stand under the MH ? i dont get your kinda fun then =

but what ever dude.
have a good one

i will peace out now .

 

[blissfest]

I realize that. Better late than never! Besides, pretty hard to make something better that's already perfect as is.

Hortilux puts a lot into their product; they have a pretty logo. I'll take the Philips, and their engineering.
Any time you wanna get rid of those crappy CMH lights, you're more than welcome to pawn them off on me.
Can't see myself moving up to 1k anytime soon.

They can't be worth much. Crappy lights.

They are decent bulb but not enough balls for what I do. They are perfect for a little Cab grow, but a 400 watt Horti HPS still has more game and will out grow it in flower.

I admit I do love the color of MH in my flower room, sure makes things pretty. But why give up 20% yield for having pretty light?

Instead I wear my Method Seven glasses in my room and it looks like I am running all MH, but the buds are bigger, LOL

The best system out there today hands down for flowering weed is the Sun System AC/DE 8" Hood with a Phillips Green Power double ended 1000 watt HPS bulb. This system destroys the competition.

 

[Drek]

The best system out there today hands down for flowering weed is the Sun System AC/DE 8" Hood with a Phillips Green Power double ended 1000 watt HPS bulb. This system destroys the competition.

Double Ended looks to be nothing more than a repackaged, more efficient 2100k bulb. Same old crap PAR spec. Same old arc tube in a different suit. I'm assuming the industry is demanding more efficient solutions, which makes sense, in terms of DE inception. Yes...great bulb as an amendment during flowering. But that's where it ends, and to be honest, I'd rather have a 3k MH doing the same thing.

HPS is weak as a single solution to plant health.

Maybe now, only 50% of it's wattage is given off in heat. Instead of 70%...you know all that wasteful heat that you thought was going to your plants? Yawn.

It's been fun Bliss. Your a good guy. But I gotta move on from this thread. My tour of duty is done.

 

[blissfest]

Double Ended looks to be nothing more than a repackaged, more efficient 2100k bulb. Same old crap PAR spec. Same old arc tube in a different suit. I'm assuming the industry is demanding more efficient solutions, which makes sense, in terms of it's inception. Yes...great bulb as an amendment during flowering. But that's where it ends.

Maybe now, only 50% of it's wattage is given off in heat. Instead of 70%...you know all that wasteful heat that you thought was going to your plants? Yawn.

It's been fun Bliss. Your a good guy. But I gotta move on from this thread. My tour of duty is done.

Just saying what system will "Produce" the most bud man,

I realize you hate 2100k, but it out yields everything else?

When you're flowering weed, you don't want too much Blue spectrum or too much Nitrogen, it only promotes veg growth and leafy bushy plants. IMO, It defeats your purpose of creating huge sticky buds.

Don't you think if 4000K was the holy grail to flowering weed, Phillips would have made their Double Ended badass Green Power bulb 4000k??????????

Maybe you should call the CEO's of Phillips, Ushio, and Hortilux and tell them they're dipshits and have no clue? Tell them 2100K is a joke and 100 million growers worldwide are getting screwed. LMFAO!!!!!

 

[Drek]

Plants still receive ample amounts of broad daylight during flowering in their natural habitat. I don't hate 2100k, I just see it for what it is, and nothing more. An amendment to a lamp with a much better suited PAR spectrum for overall plant growth, for flowering only. Imo, Philips knows that current metal halide is a superior technology in terms of plant growth, but they need to continue improving high pressure sodium because of the infrastructure that is already in place.

I'm skeptical about the Nitrogen thing as well. Does Nitrogen somehow magically disappear from the soil when the plants are in their natural habitat?
Or do the plants just use less in their later stages of flowering.

Yield is a combination of so many different variables, one of them being PAR spectrum quality.

 

[Drek]

Anyways, like I said. I'm done with trying to shed some light on things.

Continue on.

 

[the gnome]

So in reality nothing beats a Super HPS Hortilux?

I have added MH too my flower room and it did nothing of value.

600 Watt HPS Horti's grow tree's, it's been proven over and over again.
Here is one of my StarDawg pheno's I recently chopped, those are 6' driveway stakes
View Image
View Image

very nice stardawg bliss,
you did an excellent job on it
nice-n-healthy too.



1st pic one of my Mosca old time IBGs
thats a grown man's hand,
you couldn't see the hand behind the other 2 colas
i think the hand was too small

I use to run the super horti eyes myself
all 3 pics grown under a $21 Mh bulb

.

 

[blissfest]

Plants still receive ample amounts of broad daylight during flowering in their natural habitat. I don't hate 2100k, I just see it for what it is, and nothing more. An amendment to a lamp with a much better suited PAR spectrum for overall plant growth, for flowering only. Imo, Philips knows that current metal halide is a superior technology in terms of plant growth, but they need to continue improving high pressure sodium because of the infrastructure that is already in place.

I'm skeptical about the Nitrogen thing as well. Does Nitrogen somehow magically disappear from the soil when the plants are in their natural habitat?
Or do the plants just use less in their later stages of flowering.

Yield is a combination of so many different variables, one of them being PAR spectrum quality.

You are missing the point. Who cares what the real world outside conditions are and "Natural" habitat???

Nobody can grow better weed outside that can be grown inside. Indoor grown weed is by far superior than "natural" grown outside weed. Once you realize this, the better off you will be

As far as Nitrogen, cannabis doesn't need much to be perfectly green and healthy.

My current Veg recipe is 7-15-17 and my plants are picture perfect green.

Flower recipe is 7-30-21 and they stay green till I stop Nitrogen the last couple weeks. This and healthy doses of Mag and Sulfur in Flower make for big bud growth and extreme quality.

Par spectrum looks good on paper graphs and sounds nice in theory, but why does a 1000 watt Horti HPS out grow every MH on the market? Weird huh???

 

[blissfest]

very nice stardawg bliss,
you did an excellent job on it
nice-n-healthy too.



1st pic one of my Mosca old time IBGs
thats a grown man's hand,
you couldn't see the hand behind the other 2 colas
i think the hand was too small

I use to run the super horti eyes myself
all 3 pics grown under a $21 Mh bulb
View Image

View Image

View Image


.

Excellent plants Gnome, I have watched your grows for a long time and I know you're very good at what you do.

But do you truly believe your $21 bulb out performs a Horti-Eye Super HPS??

I don't mean to be an ass, but I find it hard to believe? Maybe I am just too old and set in my ways, LOL!!!

 

[Drek]

Nobody can grow better weed outside that can be grown inside. Indoor grown weed is by far superior than "natural" grown outside weed.

No offense Bliss.. But that's total BS. Every outdoor 20ft plant/tree I've ever seen looks far healthier than a bitched out indoor purification.

If anything, indoor plants are lacking the rich variety of a natural outdoor environment and forced to cope with indoor conditions.

Humans are so pompous! I can't even believe it. Exactly why they're ruining everything else on earth!

Isn't it the saying...it's hard for old dogs to learn new tricks.

 

[the gnome]

Excellent plants Gnome, I have watched your grows for a long time and I know you're very good at what you do.

But do you truly believe your $21 bulb out performs a Horti-Eye Super HPS??

I don't mean to be an ass, but I find it hard to believe? Maybe I am just too old and set in my ways, LOL!!!

hi bliss,
yes , your spot on about being an ass...
me and mom are sorry you are an ass.. just but suck it up,...k
but please don't take *suck it up* literally like the last time I said it and you blew the entire ummm
herd..baaaa... where you work at the farm.
we understand, you just gotta be you

i started indoor gro's in 2010 (grew outdoors in the 70s)
i ran very cheep hps bulb that came with cheep gro kits
a year later with funds in hand i decided to bite the bullet and got 2 of the super HPS horti eyes.
like most i want the best for my gals
they were a definite improvement but not as much as expected.
at that time, i was still on a learning curve grow.th
en i mover to Mh/hps combo's to try and up resin.
Ive never been a fan of the *ulitmates or the best* in anything.
in gro's even more, there's so many variables involved that can affect 2 peeps using the same (hi end)bulbs and getting different results, someti=me vastly different


after 2 yrs of different Mh bulbs and running the super horti eyes and combo's
Ive come to this, there is no best bulb, plenty of worst lol.
Ive seen a 4000K mh do just as good or better as the super horti's
and same for the eyes, as good and at times out performs the MH.

strains have a huge hand in how the plant shakes out under any lite. Ive seen a strain do good under the hps eye, but Excel with MH, and vice-versa.
some strains do better with hps and other with MH, and some wash out terribly.

Don't you think if 4000K was the holy grail to flowering weed, Phillips would have made their Double Ended badass Green Power bulb 4000k??????????

Maybe you should call the CEO's of Phillips, Ushio, and Hortilux and tell them they're dipshits and have no clue? Tell them 2100K is a joke and 100 million growers worldwide are getting screwed. LMFAO!!!!!

after my 2yrs seeing that there is another bulb that can do what the hps can do,
with regards to the companies in your quote.
it all about the bottom line and giving a good product.
BUT
with gro products the mark up can be insane so marketing is very competitive for your $$$ and there's lots of it to get theses days with states going legal,
that highly competitive marketing for your biz gives us things with catchy phrases and pics like Canna Carb
and get you to pay $28 a qt for molasses
IMO....the reason those bulb companies you mention arent working with a 4000K MH gro bulb is why would they when i can buy it for $21 all day long..... there's no where near the profit margin in it.
they want to keep selling you $100 bulbs and keep you from thinking anything else other than buying their
*super dooper badass giant mega bud bulb*
is what you have to have to get you those big budz.
this is basic marketing 101 in any business course in the marketing chapter.

I'm sure the dbl ended is a very good bulb,
just as a horti super eye is a very good bulb,
but when i see I can do *just as good* with
a cheaper product(vastly cheeper)
I know what I'll do.
think on this,
ask hortilux if you can bloom with Mh and how would it compare to their top HPS bulb.
then see if they would show a side by side of their top bulb, and compare to a Mh pic bud.
and show them the pics above.
see if they would even reply back to you.....
they already know what it can do and never reply to your 1st inquiry

just to be clear,
and i have to say this quite a bit
Ive never said Mh is better than hps but I can say 100% I can do just as good with MH. ymmv

 

[Drek]

@ Gnome.

That's not possible with a $20 4k MH light. Everybody knows that only an HPS light grows good weed, even better than the sun. Where's all the leafiness? I know, you cut it all off for the picture. And that chunky, lush goodness, you must have dusted them with something, just to fool people. I refuse to believe it.

 

[blissfest]

hi bliss,
i started indoor gro's in 2010 (grew outdoors in the 70s)
i ran very cheep hps bulb that came with cheep gro kits
a year later with funds in hand i decided to bite the bullet and got 2 of the super HPS horti eyes.
like most i want the best for my gals
they were a definite improvement but not as much as expected.
at that time, i was still on a learning curve grow.th
en i mover to Mh/hps combo's to try and up resin.
Ive never been a fan of the *ulitmates or the best* in anything.
in gro's even more, there's so many variables involved that can affect 2 peeps using the same (hi end)bulbs and getting different results, someti=me vastly different


after 2 yrs of different Mh bulbs and running the super horti eyes and combo's
Ive come to this, there is no best bulb, plenty of worst lol.
Ive seen a 4000K mh do just as good or better as the super horti's
and same for the eyes, as good and at times out performs the MH.

strains have a huge hand in how the plant shakes out under any lite. Ive seen a strain do good under the hps eye, but Excel with MH, and vice-versa.
some strains do better with hps and other with MH, and some wash out terribly.



after my 2yrs seeing that there is another bulb that can do what the hps can do,
with regards to the companies in your quote.
it all about the bottom line and giving a good product.
with gro products the mark up can be insane so marketing is very competitive, and its marketing that gives us things like Carbo load with catchy phrases and pics.....
and get you to pay $28 a qt for molasses
IMO....the reason those companies you mention arent working with a 4000K MH gro bulb is why would they when i can buy it for $21 all day long..... there's no where near the profit margin in it.
they want to keep selling you $100 bulbs and keep you from thinking anything else other than buying their
*super dooper badass giant mega bud bulb*
is what you have to have to get you those big budz.
this is basic marketing 101 in any business course
in the marketing chapter
I'm sure the dbl ended is a very good bulb, j
ust as a horti super eye is a very good bulb,
but when i see I can do *just as good* with
a cheaper product(vastly cheeper)
I know what I'll do.

just to be clear,
and i have to say this quite a bit
Ive never said Mh is better than hps but I can say 100% I can do just as good with MH. ymmv

What 4000k bulb do you recommend again? I am setting up another 6 hood room soon and may give them a run.

I am opened minded to new things when it comes to growing, but I also don't want to waste money and time. I am still waiting for a bulb Company too come out with the ultimate grow lamp with perfect PAR for Cannabis. Something in between CMH and Super HPS would be cool, around 3000k but what do I know, I am just an old pot grower, LOL!

 

[the gnome]

What 4000k bulb do you recommend again? I am setting up another 6 hood room soon and may give them a run.

honestly, thinking on it a bit more....
you couldn't coordinate a 3 way blow job session with drek and RB,.... just sayin the obvious son
you kids keep measuring your dicks with each other..,,,,.

 

[RB56]

I'd go with a second 600w in a 5x5. In fact, I did.

Two bulbs gives a better spread than one bulb. The two bulbs can be at different heights to accommodate the plant's heights. The 600's are slightly more efficient than the 1000's in light/watt. And most importantly for me, the bulbs can be cycled in times of high heat. If the temp gets too high, shut one down. If the temp drops enough, fire it back up. My $20 arduino and a few relays/thermometers gets the job done.

On the other hand, one reflector is easier to deal with. And the 600w bulbs are just about as expensive as the 1000's. The 1000's will go deeper but the benefit is debatable.

Two lights also give you redundancy in case one fails. Can be very helpful for those of us without local retail suppliers.

 

[RB56]

A Myth? WTF?

There has yet to be a side by side grow off between HPS and MH where MH came even close to yielding what HPS does.

Show me.

Can you point me to any side by side grow offs that demonstrate HPS yielding more? I haven't been able to find anything more than marleting claims and wishful thinking either way. It would go a long way toward resolving this issue if someone could link real experiments that support their position.

Even Hortilux says the following on their Web site:

The Metal Halide spectrum is the best possible when growing vegetation. - See more at: http://www.eyehortilux.com/products/Metal-Halide#blue
[/quote

If you’re looking for lamps to use consistently - from starting and growing plants up to the flowering and fruit production stages of plant growth - look to Metal Halide lamps.

The Metal Halide spectrum is the best possible when growing vegetation.

For the Super HPS they say:

The Super HPS is the most productive High Pressure Sodium grow light in the industry. - See more at: http://www.eyehortilux.com/products/High-Pressure-Sodium#shps
The Super HPS is the most productive High Pressure Sodium grow light in the industry.

That's an entirely different thing. If superiority can be readily proved, you'd think they'd do it instead of relying on prose.

I'd really like to get what you say the Super HPS provides. I'd happily pay for superior technology although superior technology in this realm should really pay for itself. Strongly held positions can be presented on both sides of this question because there is nothing definitive that can be referenced. Seems like a bad sign that Hortilux hasn't provided it.