hush's QWISO journal

[dubwise]

great thread hush! thanks for sharing so much information.
I've got a few questions for you...I had been using 99% for a while and always got something similar to what you're creating but when I switched to denatured alcohol i ended up with a less sticky product. Have you ever tried denatured alcohol? Second, if you were to allow it to dry even further on your plate....what would it do? I ask this because recently I forgot about a plate I had evaporating on a heat pad and when I came home to it, it was bone dry. I scraped it with a razor and ended up with a powdery substance. It is very dry and not sticky but it melts very nicely. How can I end up with the shatter that you're getting? Did I leave it on the pad too long or is it possible to leave it on to long?
Keep up the great work!!!

 

[eugenesaxe]

Great thread hush ! Very nice pictures ! Have you started winterizing with
Ethanol yet ?

 

[woolybear]

My latest Qwiso run gave me a 14.5% return. That's pretty decent. right?

 

[komboloi]

Wow, what an excellent thread! Hush, congratulations. I love the fact that you've been learning as you go and sharing what works and what doesn't work. Thanks for sharing both the narrative and the photos.

I did one run of QWISO and made the mistake of leaving the material in contact with the alcohol too long. First, I shook it hard for a full minute, then I put the whole soppy mess (alcohol and material) into a coffee filter that took about 25 minutes to drain completely. Then I let it air dry. I ended up with a gooey tar that was impossible to deal with. It just stuck to everything. I froze it overnight then poured more alcohol into the pyrex to re-dissolve it. Then I purged it over a water bath at 155F (the water, not the alcohol/oil mix). It reduced down to a thicker substance that looks really nice (dark brown as a mass, but translucent coffee-colored at the margins). Frozen, I can dab it. At room temperature, it's still a bit too runny as a result, I assume, of extracting too much plant material with my slow extraction. I haven't sampled it yet. BUT, I feel as though I can do another run and get a much better result by working faster, colder, and with less extraction time. Thanks again.

BTW, can you (or someone) give me a reference to your "cheap window a/c in a semi-sealed room" to control 1000w of heat? I've been considering rigging something like that into my grow room (a converted bathroom), but I've hesitated, because it would draw air (and therefore blow heat) into the adjoining room. But if you've had success at it...

Cheers.

 

[Killkingkong]

Hey Hush, cool experiments. Have you tried playing around with water curing buds and see if that makes for a different end product? I'd imagine that water cured bud would make for a oil with less plant material in the end. I'm about a month into a grow that I plan on testing this with.

 

[mrgrynch]

Hey Hush, cool experiments. Have you tried playing around with water curing buds and see if that makes for a different end product? I'd imagine that water cured bud would make for a oil with less plant material in the end. I'm about a month into a grow that I plan on testing this with.

Yeah, I was just wondering that. I bet you could even leave it in the cold bath a bit longer and perhaps get a stronger concentrate? I would imagine though that the flavor would be more like a BHO with most of the aromatics removed.

Though as I think on it, he's using trim, not buds.

 

[Killkingkong]

Yeah, I was just wondering that. I bet you could even leave it in the cold bath a bit longer and perhaps get a stronger concentrate? I would imagine though that the flavor would be more like a BHO with most of the aromatics removed.

Though as I think on it, he's using trim, not buds.

You're right, he did mention using trim. And yeah I was thinking of a long wash ISO bath with the water cured bud because you won't have any chlrophyll or other plant material in the end product. The main complaint I remember from the QWISO thread about using water cured bud was that the end product is darker than bud not water cured., but with oils it sounds like (I don't have experience with oils, thus the interest) dark color is perfectly acceptable.

 

[hush]

I've got a few questions for you...I had been using 99% for a while and always got something similar to what you're creating but when I switched to denatured alcohol i ended up with a less sticky product. Have you ever tried denatured alcohol?

Actually, no, I haven't. Denatured alcohol should work great, in theory, as long as the denaturing agent is methanol and nothing else. But I have a justified fear of methanol, so I won't use it. Even though I'm 99.9% sure that I could purge it all away, it still scares me. Methanol causes blindness, so it all must be purged away. I just don't want to make a lazy mistake one day that will take my eyesight away from me.

Second, if you were to allow it to dry even further on your plate....what would it do? I ask this because recently I forgot about a plate I had evaporating on a heat pad and when I came home to it, it was bone dry. I scraped it with a razor and ended up with a powdery substance. It is very dry and not sticky but it melts very nicely.

Believe it or not, what I'm scraping up is entirely dried. I don't scrape it up until then. The thing is, there is a difference between the texture of decarboxylated oil and non-decarbed. The more the oil is decarboxylated, the stickier and runnier it gets. What I'm also learning now is that trim from a year-old harvest has already been decarbing due to time, so the older your starting product, the less margin there is for ending up with a shatter consistency. The most recent extraction I made was not only from old trim, but I used heat in the process, so the end result, as completely purged as it is, is very syrupy and sticky. In fact, I won't be using heat anymore for this very reason... The oil is too liquidy and actually leaks out of my vape pen, from the air holes. I prefer something more solid and taffy-like. The sticky powder you described above sounds like high quality qwiso that is still in its carboxyl form, which isn't bad at all! Except for the fact that, in my opinion, it's next to impossible to work with. So I like just a little bit of decarbing so that the shatter becomes more like taffy. It's basically hard, and solid, but just slightly manipulable and doesn't get all over the place, lol.

How can I end up with the shatter that you're getting? Did I leave it on the pad too long or is it possible to leave it on to long?

Good questions, and I'm not entirely sure I'm qualified to answer, since I'm learning here, but I will give it a shot: the "shatter" I'm getting is more of a taffy/wax quality than literal shatter is, and how you could achieve it is by allowing the oil to partially decarboxylate so that the end result adheres to itself more cohesively. I think. Did you leave it on the pad too long, or is that even possible? I honestly don't know. I would say it depends on the temperature achieved by the pad, and how long it would take to decarboxylate things at that temperature. Hopefully someone else knows, and will feel free to chime in.

Great thread hush ! Very nice pictures ! Have you started winterizing with
Ethanol yet ?

No not yet, but it's definitely on my list! I will be making an order soon, probably this week, and I do look forward to seeing if winterization makes a difference on my qwiso.

My latest Qwiso run gave me a 14.5% return. That's pretty decent. right?

Sounds decent. But I don't know since I've never paid attention to those mathematics in my own adventures. I will start making note of these things though, and including them here in my journal. I have been operating under the self-imposed [arbitrary] rule of "as long as I get at least ten percent yield I'm probably doing okay." Lol.

Wow, what an excellent thread! Hush, congratulations. I love the fact that you've been learning as you go and sharing what works and what doesn't work. Thanks for sharing both the narrative and the photos.

You are quite welcome, and that's exactly what I set out to accomplish with this thread.

I did one run of QWISO and made the mistake of leaving the material in contact with the alcohol too long. First, I shook it hard for a full minute, then I put the whole soppy mess (alcohol and material) into a coffee filter that took about 25 minutes to drain completely. Then I let it air dry. I ended up with a gooey tar that was impossible to deal with. It just stuck to everything. I froze it overnight then poured more alcohol into the pyrex to re-dissolve it. Then I purged it over a water bath at 155F (the water, not the alcohol/oil mix). It reduced down to a thicker substance that looks really nice (dark brown as a mass, but translucent coffee-colored at the margins). Frozen, I can dab it. At room temperature, it's still a bit too runny as a result, I assume, of extracting too much plant material with my slow extraction. I haven't sampled it yet. BUT, I feel as though I can do another run and get a much better result by working faster, colder, and with less extraction time. Thanks again.

Again, I'm no expert, but it sounds like what happened there is not only pulling crap out of the plant matter but also decarbing it too much. Like I described my runny oil above. The extra wash time more than likely pulled a lot of crap out that you don't want, but for some reason I feel like that alone wouldn't be enough to make goopy, runny oil. In fact, the really awesome looking extraction I made on page 2, the one that I said looks like hammered bronze, that was actually the result of an extraction where I soaked for too long, because I underestimated how slow it would drain through the filter (much like you just described there). Yet, the end result was a perfect, taffy consistency, presumably because I didn't use much heat at all during that extraction.

BTW, can you (or someone) give me a reference to your "cheap window a/c in a semi-sealed room" to control 1000w of heat? I've been considering rigging something like that into my grow room (a converted bathroom), but I've hesitated, because it would draw air (and therefore blow heat) into the adjoining room. But if you've had success at it...

I'm not sure if there's a misunderstanding about how I use my air conditioner, but it's just a standard window unit that is installed in a window, the way the manufacturer intended. I think you might think I'm talking about having built a box around the unit so that it can be placed in the middle of the grow room, like a portable unit instead of a window unit. But that's not what I did. Although, people HAVE done that before, but it only works when you connect ducting to it and you still have to vent it to the outside. But you get to use ducting to do that instead of mounting it in a window at that point. If you want to check out my journal where I setup that room, here's the link: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=263873

Hey Hush, cool experiments. Have you tried playing around with water curing buds and see if that makes for a different end product? I'd imagine that water cured bud would make for a oil with less plant material in the end. I'm about a month into a grow that I plan on testing this with.

No I haven't done this, and I have thought about it before, so I'm curious how that would play out. Keep me listed if you get around to giving it a try. I'd be interested.

Yeah, I was just wondering that. I bet you could even leave it in the cold bath a bit longer and perhaps get a stronger concentrate? I would imagine though that the flavor would be more like a BHO with most of the aromatics removed.

Though as I think on it, he's using trim, not buds.

Yeah that's pretty much exactly how I've been thinking about it, so I do plan on trying it out at some point. And yes, I used trim instead of bud, but honestly I can't see why water curing trim would be any less effective than water curing buds. There is still water soluble crap in trim just like there is in bud, so however water curing would affect buds, the same should happen with trim.

You're right, he did mention using trim. And yeah I was thinking of a long wash ISO bath with the water cured bud because you won't have any chlrophyll or other plant material in the end product. The main complaint I remember from the QWISO thread about using water cured bud was that the end product is darker than bud not water cured., but with oils it sounds like (I don't have experience with oils, thus the interest) dark color is perfectly acceptable.

I would have to agree and say that a dark color is acceptable, and doesn't necessarily mean there is unwanted crap in your oil. Iso does pull out some crap that butane does not, and this crap does tend to be colored. In my experience, it specifically tends to be red colored. When the oil is spread very thin on parchment paper, in its end result form, is the only time I can see and appreciate the color of the oil, which is typically a red or orangey color. But when it's all gathered up together, like in my concentrate container, it just looks like brownish colored tar or something, lol. Then, when I dip into it with my dabbing tool, when it stretches out into strings of taffy, I see the golden and amber colors again.

 

[hush]

So as I mentioned in the previous post, I'm done using heat in my extractions. At least, recklessly. The liquid quality of my most recent batches has been what I consider a fail. I mean the oil is still useful, just not in my vape pen. I might try diluting it and putting it in a tincture tank, but it's useless in the oil cartridge. Oh well. Now I know!

 

[komboloi]

hush, I'm no expert, but I have successfully adjusted the viscosity of my oil with grain alcohol (mine is 96%) by dissolving what I didn't like in the grain alcohol then re-reducing to a more workable consistency.

And if you allow it to air dry (takes a long time, but it works great), you have plenty of time to stop the evaporation at just the consistency you need for your pen. Anything less than a full purge will result in some dissolved alcohol in your smoke, but it's so small and, because it's grain alcohol, not so worrisome as another solvent.

Here was my most recent run, involving reducing the liquid straight into its storage container:

28 grams of bud from a long-previous harvest, dried and frozen overnight.
16 oz. of 99% isopropyl alcohol, frozen overnight
French press
Coffee filter in mesh strainer
2 cup pyrex measuring cup
Water bath setup with instant read thermometer
3 six-ounce pyrex custard cups (1 with a lid)

1. Working quickly, I pulled the bud and the iso out of the freezer, put the bud in the French press, followed by 10 ounces of the iso.
2. I swirled the mixture around for 25 seconds and immediately poured the liquid through the French press strainer into the 2 c. pyrex measuring cup. Then I added the other 6 oz. of frozen iso to the bud muck left in the French press, swirled for 25 seconds for a second wash, and immediately added that liquid to the pyrex measuring cup. At this point, the need to move quickly is over.
3. I then ran that liquid through the coffee filter into the three 6 oz. pyrex cups.
4. Being careful not to spill, I lowered the custard cups into the water bath.
5. Maintaining the water temperature (not the custard cup liquid temp, the water) at 160-165, I began reducing.
6. When the liquid levels were sufficiently reduced, I poured one custard cup contents into another, leaving two in the water bath. When they were reduced sufficiently, I poured one into the other, leaving one in the water bath. I reduced that to the point I wanted, let it cool at room temp for a bit, then put it in the freezer.

The purpose of the custard cups is to end up with the end product in its end storage container. The shape is just right -- very rounded inside on the bottom; no corners. And by doing that, I avoid all the transfer work that goes into the standard process. No razor blades, no scraping, no mats, no pyrex purging pans, no parchment paper, no sticky fingers, no sticky cleanup.

Two hours in the freezer, and it was shatter -- too solid to be useable from the container. At room temperature, it's taffy. Refrigerated, it's thicker taffy. Perfect dabbing consistency. If I wanted to put in in a Gentleman's Pen, I'd cool it or warm it as necessary to get the right consistency.

That's the process. Just reduce and dab. For storage I cover it with the plastic lid that came with it.

The covered custard cup is not the most elegant or size-efficient storage container (small amount of product in the bottom), but I don't carry this stuff outside my home anyway.

P.S. Because it doesn't involve a long purge session after being reduced, I suspect there is some tiny amount of alcohol still dissolved in there, but it would have to be so small as to be irrelevant given how dense the material is.

 

[hush]

That sounds like a pretty good, efficient method right there. And yeah, any remaining ethanol in there would be a non issue. I need to get a hold of some everclear! I want to experiment with green dragon tinctures and stuff on top of winterizing my qwiso.

Yeah, my last batches of runny oil are still too goopy to be put into a tincture tank, for my vape pen, but with a little ethanol dilution it would work just fine. But the way I see it, I want to make green dragon tincture, and then dilute with that instead of straight ethanol.

Regarding my extractions, I'll get back to it soon. I'm all out of sugar trim from my large harvest of a year ago. I still have the fan leaves though. I'm going to go ahead and experiment with the fan leaves by water-curing them first, then I will do a QWISO run with them. See how that turns out. Then, I just might have to try out winterizing the resulting oil.

I need to order some everclear and some 99% iso!

 

[komboloi]

Glad the method seems sound to you, hush. Fortunately for me, 96% grain alcohol and 99% iso are at the local store. hush, please post results of your fan leaf experiment. I've always just tossed 'em, but if there are gems to be mined...

I'll post a smoke report of my custard cup method soon.

Following your Lemon Skunk vertical micro too. Good stuff.

 

[hush]

Yeah, the fan leaves definitely have good stuff all over them. I can't speak for all fan leaves, lol, but yeah the ones that I took from my Sadhu harvest are crystal coated!!! That strain is a true hash plant, and the trichomes cover the entire plant, from stems to fan leaves and everything in between.

I look forward to your report, man.

(That micro vert setup is kind of like a toy to me, but it impresses the hell out of me. I think I'll end up with 2 ounces or so out of that garden, and it requires the least amount of work of any micro grow I've ever done. It's like bud for nothing in there!)

 

[komboloi]

hush, I've developed a really simple high potency tincture formula if you want it. There are a lot of them out there, and I feel as though I've got mine dialed in.

 

[hush]

Sure feel free to post it right here.

 

[komboloi]

Here's the Tincture formula:

1 oz. of high grade bud, ground finely and completely dried.
Parchment paper.
Cookie sheet.
16 oz. of high-alcohol liquor (Everclear, 151 rum, etc.)
1 quart mason jar
water bath set up with instant-read or candy thermometer
coffee filter in a mesh strainer
1 pint mason jar with lid

1. Put the cookie sheet in the oven, and preheat to 325F. Spread the dried ground herb onto a piece of parchment paper about the size of the cookie sheet. When the oven is hot, remove the cookie sheet, put the parchment paper on the hot cookie sheet, and put back in the oven. Bake 5 minutes and remove to cool.
2. Dump the decaboxylated bud into the 1 qt. mason jar, add the alcohol, and swirl to mix.
3. Process in the hot water bath at 155F-165F for 20 minutes.
4. Cool and pour through the coffee filter/mesh strainer into the 1 pint mason jar. Cover and store in the refrigerator. Yields about 14 fluid ounces, or about 420 ml.

Dosage: One to four milliliters for me, measured with an eyedropper and mixed in a beverage (I like OJ) or directly ingested. For me, the high comes on after about an hour and lasts for several. 1 ml gives me a mild happy buzz. 4 ml packs a real punch to me. You have to titrate yourself to find the right dosage for your mood.

With 420 or so milliliters of tincture, you can see how many good doses you can get from that one ounce of old bud. Pretty efficient use. Haven't tried it with trim and popcorn.

 

[komboloi]

Custard Cup QWISO Smoke Report: This is some extremely potent material. Two good dabs (4-5 total hits) is really too much for me. One good dab is plenty for hours. It's a little harsh compared to fresh bud, but a little goes a long long way. The flavor is nothing special; doesn't really taste like much of anything. The smoke is thick and heavy. Good for when you're in the mood to get really medicated really fast.

 

[sahdgrower]

Hey, really like this thread I am interested and can't seem to find the answer. I have a bunch of trim, way more than I can cover with 32oz. of Iso. So I was thinking of freezing maybe 10 jars of trim and run the same batch of Iso through each one. Maybe refreeze after every 2 or 3 jars. This would make the Iso super concentrated right? I would also do a second rinse right behind the first and keep that separate. It seems like everyone is only running their iso through one batch of trim or bud. Whadyas say?

 

[komboloi]

Hey, really like this thread I am interested and can't seem to find the answer. I have a bunch of trim, way more than I can cover with 32oz. of Iso. So I was thinking of freezing maybe 10 jars of trim and run the same batch of Iso through each one. Maybe refreeze after every 2 or 3 jars. This would make the Iso super concentrated right? I would also do a second rinse right behind the first and keep that separate. It seems like everyone is only running their iso through one batch of trim or bud. Whadyas say?

Theoretically, that should work IF the iso is capable of holding that much THC in suspension. The % of THC will go up with every run, and my only question is whether supersaturated isopropyl alcohol is still capable of acting as an effective solvent.

Of course another alternative would be to get lots more iso, wash each oz. of trim twice in 8 oz. of iso, then just keep reducing reducing reducing.

 

[elchavo]

Looool! Hahahha make us a sandwitch bro!! Hahahha

Looks amazing!!! ♡♡♡