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Team Microbe's Quest into True Living Organics (2014)

Rickman

Member
standard brew method, airstone 1 gal pitcher (made a half-tea in a half gal, then diluted it 1:1 for 1 gal final volume) 24 hours..."new roots tea" recipe only didn't have any molasses camg+ etc, i think that CaMg+ alone mixing with base waterings may start to show that it's helping. lotta things in that mix that looove calcium!
 

couchlockd

Active member
if you noticed i posted that i did spikes once and also the top dress high n layer with mulch.

well i didn't feel the plants were really liking the spikes. then as i top dressed later on with the mulch layer and high n layer, the plants looked just like the set of leaves in you post, rickman. but mine never snapped out of it. as they dropped all leaves i had to emergency harvest them.

not sure if it was the spikes or top layer, but i feel it was a combo of both. havent had an issue since i stopped the spikes nd layers.

i also should point out, from what i experienced, was that what team microbe mentioned, was when i upped inputs of teas to recipes from the book, i noticed i had a hard time keeping the teas from smelling of shit, and that is a tell tell sign of anerobic activity.

seemed like to much food or organic inputs in the tea, for me at least, hurt the bennies, killed them off or stopped their proliferation at a pace that outgrew harmfull bacteria.

just my experiences soo far.

what it seems like we got going on here is a few folks who want it easy and are going to organics, but are toe dipping like mentioned, from fears of the unknown. which is what we all learn once we start actually learning, to KISS. less is more, etc.
 

couchlockd

Active member
they are fried fromt he high n top layer mulch which is

2 parts blood meal,
1 part steamed bone meal
1 part high n guano
1 partfeather meal
1 part kelp meal

when i did this , my plants went exactly like that. since i stopped layers zones spikes and mulch layers.

fwiw, when i was sourcing all this tlo exoticness, i gave a list to my hydro store guy, and he says to me "i have all this stuff ordered for some one who didnt pick it up like two months ago" great i said. he then says "spikes of dry ferts and layers of dry ferts seem like it would fry the roots.

and to be honest that was my initial thinking also, but i took the plunge and did it. didnt like it.

to me the spikes and layers had me guessing , not what this whole organic/tlo method is about, i need peace of mind, when i sit back and smoke, if gardening chores come to mind and i start second guessing what i did earlier, thats just too much like growing with active hydroponics and synthetic nutes, ph issues ppm issues, how to balance them out and whatnot.

so i use the tlo 2.1 soil mix, i preffer it with roots original, cyco or bcuzz coco, soil builder EWC, and big chunky perlite. with all the dry ferts called for in the cooking of it.

from that point i always have on hand some happy frog all purpose 5-5-5, happy frog fruit and flower 5-8-4 and some happy frog tomato 7-4-5

a veg mix, flower mix, and all purpose mix.

between these three custom blends can be made. and they contain guanos, meals, kelps and such. ill top dress with these as needed.

teas are kept low, like when i get a two gallon recipe it will definately get cut to three gallons total. with the 2 gallon inputs.

ive also used the moonshine man mix and added all the tlo 2.1 soil amendments to the msm mix. and i have to tell you i liked this the best.

what the moonshine man mix is, is i bag each of fox farm's "ocean forrest", "planting mix (red bag)" , and one bag of "light warrior" to these three bags add one heaping cup full of fruit and flower .

i then would use this mix as the 2 parts quality bagged soil for the tlo recipe.
 

Rickman

Member
couchy,

fantastic insight! for me this is an incredible learning resource. i'm just trying all sorts of styles, I have no 'necessity' as it were to produce, nor does my budget matter (within reason of course haha). As a comfortable resident of CO and red-card holder, I can not only relax conscience with my little tent here, but availability of adequate flora is nothing but an errand between groceries and the carwash!

That being said--I keep strict accounts of everything i do horticulturally but also financially, and this past year has been a small fortune in experimentation, but a large fortune in knowledge!

i have a degree-in-progress as a soil scientist, and many of my contemporaries lack such initiative--and by extension--first person experimental experience. my ultimate goal is not only to grow the finest quality cannabis, but to grow everything and anything anyone could possibly need in the most naturally optimized environment!

As of today, I've got 4 'generations' or, differing experimental trials as it were, of transplants all in a tent. I've got a few pics to upload, but my transplants varied from conservative top-dressing and belated (as explained earlier) mulching, to containers of equal size with FOUR 1/2 teaspoon spikes, including 3 diff spike recipes (all single 4"x4"x3" containers with a 2 week old seedling trans's--only 1st generation has moved into the next container size which is one gallon).

also...G1 is showing signs of recovery! :woohoo:

both LA Affies are turgid and growing, the skunk 47's apical meristem is forest-green, and the sharksbreath is filling in those pale-yellow spots with a comfortable lime green fading to almost forest color in the center. I didn't do anything since the last HPG veg tea, except increase ventilation, give it time, and pray to the soil overlords.

Reporting back soon! cheers y'all.
 

Rickman

Member
The Rundown

The Rundown

Howdy! I know it's been a painful few minutes since my last post, but I've got a concise & comprehensive update!

Here's a walkthrough of my 4th generation (G4) of transplants from seedling flat units to my 443s (4"x4"x3" containers)

The assembly line:



Pure Bottom-Layer Blend (High N Blend & All-Purpose 1:1) alongside a mix of 2.1 Master Mix that I put some fresh castings and perlite into



I put the container directly in the 2.1 mix before adding the bottom layer so it doesn't fall out the bottom!



Layer of 2.1 to buffer root ball from bottom layer



Empty single seedling unit placed in for layering formation!

 

Rickman

Member
Cont'd

Cont'd

And then! A thin & pure layer of Happy Frog 5-5-5-Ca & Inoculants



2nd half of 2.1 main layer added nearly to brim



'Diamond' shape used to maximize spike area in corners



On the last four seedling transplants of G4, I inoculated the trans zones with Azos, by Xtreme gardening, because what the hell why not



Roots have reached the bottom but are not circling too much

 

Rickman

Member
Cont'd Cont'd (lol)

Cont'd Cont'd (lol)

Plopped 'er in!



4 spike zones, courtesy of a rounded metal chopstick



(G4) Top to bottom & left to right: All-Purpose Veg Spike, All-Purpose Flower Spike, 30:70 Perlite:Casting Spike, All-Purpose Veg Spike.

Then, a High-N layering blend on top, 1 teaspoon (hard to see in pic but its there)



Topped generously with some divine smelling Douglas Fir shredded bark mulch for light protection, moisture consistency retention, slow-decomposing food source...as my dear mother would say "thank you very mulch"

 

Rickman

Member
Some more stuff

Some more stuff

So! TM, this is your grow journal! I don't mean to impose...

Just wanted to compare. Here's what I got for toys:



~ TLO Bundle (4 Teas, 4 Spikes, High N Layer Blend, Mellow Mix, 2.1 Master Mix, Manure Blend)
~Neptune's Harvest Hydrolyzed Fish Fertilizer
~General Organics' CaMg+ (5:1 Ca:Mg)
~Fox Farm Big Bloom (Low-NPK All-Purpose Liquid)
~Ohrstrom's Maxicrop (Seaweed Powder as Tea Additive)
~Grandma's Molasses (All-Natural, Unsulphured)
~Dual Compost Tea Setup (Customized!)
~Soil pH Meter (Just arrived today!)
~TDS Meter
~Variety of OMRI-Certified Pest & Mold Combatants
~Composted Cow Manure (Tea Additive)
~Perlite (Pure Awesome)
~Worm Castings (Fresh Local)
~Shredded Bark Mulch (Douglas Fir)
~MycoGrow Soluble Mycorrhizal Inoculant (Tons of species, fungi/bacteria/trichoderma)
~Xtreme Gardening "Mykos" (Single species fungi, glomus intraradices)
~Xtreme Gardening "Azos" (diazotrophic bacterium)
~Organicare Pure Grow (Granular All-Purpose)
~Organicare Pure Bloom (Granular All-Purpose)
~Fox Farm Happy Frog (Fine All-Purpose & Inoculant)

Stuff I haven't used in TLO because I'm not sure about, but still have on hand:

~Variety of Aurora Innovations' "Roots Organics" Dry Nutrient Line (Uprising Foundation, Uprising Grow, Uprising Bloom, Seabird Guano and 'elemental' micronute&calmag supplement)
~Trinity (Roots Organics molasses based Bio-Catalyst)
~Surge (Roots Organics Liquid Fish Fert)
~Extreme Serene (Roots Organics High-Solubility 'all purpose', derived from kelp, contains some chelated acids I've read and therefore should only be used in case of emergency allegedly)
~Ancient Amber (Roots Organics Leodarnite derivative foliar applicant & master feeding schedule nutrient supplement)

Tent & Storage



Ushio 600W Opti-Blue on a Solis Tek Magnetic, alongside a 240W G8 LED Bloom Panel, 80x3 Watt Diode Array w/ UV & Ultraviolet bands (in very small amounts to induce resin production I've heard) Shining down on my new arrangement: used the spare wire racks from my 4ft shelf storage unit to create a grated surface for containers' bases to be freely suspended allowing for maximum drainage & air circulation

 

Rickman

Member
Recovery & New Beginnings

Recovery & New Beginnings

Sooo...here's some pictures of those bouncing back!

Alpha-Affie!



Skunk-47, #1 in resilience since day 1



Sharksbreath, main rival of skunk, second leader in vitality!



A round of new beginnings...



And another!



We'll see if spikes and layers really can't do a nice job. Couchy--I'm all for the "KIS" method. Just the baseline theory of maximizing nutrient availability via refined "zoning"...it's brilliant I just want it to work SO BAD!!

I'm about 30 pages into "Teaming With Microbes" by Jeff Lowenfels & Wayne Lewis, I can already tell it's setting up to answer a lot of my questions. I'll let you guys know when I find some neat info-gems in there!
 

Rickman

Member
Another quick note on genetics:

~G1 are all breeder fems

~G2-G4 are all dispensary bag seed from top shelf 8ths i've slowly collected

- Pink Lady (TGA Subcool 'Plushberry' Pheno nickname); Terrapin Care Station, Boulder
- Grand Doggy Purps (GDP x Chemdawg); Medicine Man, Denver
- Church (Skunk x Super Skunk x Northern Lights x Swiss Sativa); Terrapin Care Station, Boulder
- Girl Scout Cookies (OG Kush x [Durban Poison x Granddaddy Purps]) or (OG Kush x Cherry Pie) if you prefer!; Medicine Man, Denver
- G6 (Aspen OG x Sour Diesel); Medicine Man, Denver

(Jeez, get it together medicine man, that GSC was $45 an 8th! Although there only was a single seed..ha)
 

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
Sooo...here's some pictures of those bouncing back!

Alpha-Affie!

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=51901&pictureid=1219175&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Skunk-47, #1 in resilience since day 1

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=51901&pictureid=1219178&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Sharksbreath, main rival of skunk, second leader in vitality!

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=51901&pictureid=1219192&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

A round of new beginnings...

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=51901&pictureid=1219194&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

And another!

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=51901&pictureid=1219195&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

We'll see if spikes and layers really can't do a nice job. Couchy--I'm all for the "KIS" method. Just the baseline theory of maximizing nutrient availability via refined "zoning"...it's brilliant I just want it to work SO BAD!!

I'm about 30 pages into "Teaming With Microbes" by Jeff Lowenfels & Wayne Lewis, I can already tell it's setting up to answer a lot of my questions. I'll let you guys know when I find some neat info-gems in there!

Nice man!!!

Those new seedlings look way happier than your older ones, if I were you I'd focus the space you have solely on those fresh start since theyre not too far behind... John Kempf makes it clear that stress in early stages of growth greatly diminishes yields. So know that when making that decision! So stoked on your mix as well, I was out today looking for mulch but came up short... may have to wait for spring to kick in first! Good luck on the next round of girls man :tiphat:
 

Rickman

Member
TM, thanks man. Yes considering I have some unpopped Sugarloafs (loaves? lol) These first generation are really just experimental. Well, all the generations are experimental, but those affies are still looking 100% better and everyone else has recovery signs. it'd be neat just to see that first hand; I wouldn't doubt john kempf. once space becomes an issue i'll take em out one by one. ultimately I wanted to do nine in 3 gallon smart pots.

PS, I got that GIANT bag of mulch from amazon.com (so sustainable I know) for $4.32 and free shipping. I don't know if it's still available that way but could be worth a look for that price. I ordered a huge bag of steer compost from the same company right after for $5
 

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
TM, thanks man. Yes considering I have some unpopped Sugarloafs (loaves? lol) These first generation are really just experimental. Well, all the generations are experimental, but those affies are still looking 100% better and everyone else has recovery signs. it'd be neat just to see that first hand; I wouldn't doubt john kempf. once space becomes an issue i'll take em out one by one. ultimately I wanted to do nine in 3 gallon smart pots.

PS, I got that GIANT bag of mulch from amazon.com (so sustainable I know) for $4.32 and free shipping. I don't know if it's still available that way but could be worth a look for that price. I ordered a huge bag of steer compost from the same company right after for $5

I hear you, and agree with ya man. Every run that's experimented with is learned from, without that we'd be at a stand-still.

and cool cool, thanks for the tip I def love me some Amazon haha. It's so frustrating, around my town every bag of mulch has colorant added to it it's driving me insane... I even bought a bag and lugged it home to find out in small print that that too wasn't natural. Wish me luck!
 

KiefChief

New member
Very informative thread, I love what you're doing TM! I'm at the very beginning of my first grow and I think it will be organic for me all the way! I've always preferred organic smoke and it just seems so much more "natural" lol.
Anyway im doing a single plant grow under CFLs, my medium is biobizz all mix and I've got their grow and bloom nutes, I don't know if you've ever heard of biobizz but I'd be interested to hear what you think about them... I'm not even sure if it's truly organic actually, so I guess really my question is, do you think I would benefit from any teas in this medium? Or is there anything I could add that would help? I welcome all comments and ideas!
I'm subbed for this one! Keep the information flowing guys and happy growing!
My seedling after it sprouted yesterday! Ain't she cute? :biggrin:
 

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
Very informative thread, I love what you're doing TM! I'm at the very beginning of my first grow and I think it will be organic for me all the way! I've always preferred organic smoke and it just seems so much more "natural" lol.
Anyway im doing a single plant grow under CFLs, my medium is biobizz all mix and I've got their grow and bloom nutes, I don't know if you've ever heard of biobizz but I'd be interested to hear what you think about them... I'm not even sure if it's truly organic actually, so I guess really my question is, do you think I would benefit from any teas in this medium? Or is there anything I could add that would help? I welcome all comments and ideas!
I'm subbed for this one! Keep the information flowing guys and happy growing!
My seedling after it sprouted yesterday! Ain't she cute? :biggrin:
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=52272&pictureid=1220250&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Hey Chief! Thanks man, appreciate the compliments. Bio biz would highly benefit from compost tea since it's built with all those good biologicals like compost and castings. Keep your teas low in food since you're already on the feeding regimen. I'd brew inoculant teas with just compost/castings every other week, while brewing 1 or 2 really good "veg teas" or "flower teas" at the critical points in growth.

What I mean by veg teas are teas dominant in bacteria; while flower teas are typically fungal dominant. If you aren't sure what I mean by that ask me and I'll be glad to go into that for ya. Cheers :tiphat:
 

KiefChief

New member
Ideal! She's only about 3 days out of the soil at the minute so I won't be feeding with the biogrow for another 2 weeks or so. I really haven't done much research into compost teas; have you got any cheap easy recipes you could share? I should probably mention I'm growing an autoflower, I'm not sure if that makes any difference? I think I get the general gist of that, thanks for taking the time to reply!
 

Team Microbe

Active member
Veteran
Ideal! She's only about 3 days out of the soil at the minute so I won't be feeding with the biogrow for another 2 weeks or so. I really haven't done much research into compost teas; have you got any cheap easy recipes you could share? I should probably mention I'm growing an autoflower, I'm not sure if that makes any difference? I think I get the general gist of that, thanks for taking the time to reply!

Np man, grab a 5 gal bucket a double out-put aquarium pump, some air tubing, and some GOOD compost (this is the key factor, if you can't find good compost don't brew) Dr Earth bagged compost is great. Avoid anaerobic compost (bagged usually) that is sold for cheap like under $10 a bag. This stuff will breed bad bacteria into your garden.

Here's a simple recipe:

3 gal RO water
1/2 cup compost
1/2 cup worm castings
1 tbsp per gal of molasses


hang your castings/compost in a paint strainer bag (2 gal bag) so its just underwater and getting agitated by your air tubing on the bottom of the bucket. Brew for 24-48 hrs, strain, then apply at a 1:2 ratio as a soil drench/foliar spray!
 

KiefChief

New member
I'm saving that recipe thanks man. Money's a problem at the minute so it may have to wait for the next round. I live in a rural area in the UK, I'm near the coast and forest/farmland etc would there be anything I could use nearby for free?
Cheers,
Chief
 

Organic Fanatic

New member
There are some good tea recipes over at microbeorganics.com. Microbeman analyzes everything under a microscope and has figured out pretty precise measurements for whatever type of tea you're choosing to brew. The recipe above looks good to me though. Simpler is better a lot of the time.

Good luck with the TLO man, I grew some really nice stuff TLO style, but started getting messed up when I got into my 2nd and 3rd run. Soil started getting way imbalanced.

Really, IMO the hands-down best way to grow organically is to send in your soil for an analysis to a lab (Logan Labs or whatever you can find locally). Amend it to Albrecht ratios based on that analysis.

I like Rev's method (minus all the dolomite) and spikes, just not for long term use. Spikes and layers will tend to build up over time IME.

-OF
 
N

newtothiscoco

hello guys i would just tell when you use bark to top dress the pot's you need to wash the bark with proper ph water some times and let it dry and wash it again, when i did my first grow ever for along time back now in soil i did use bark as top dress to keep the soil moist,
but i did not wash the bark and that was a bad week after that
i found out that the bark can change the ph allot :). so if you want to use bark remember to wash the bark proper with ph water , like you do with hydroton before you use that as top dress :) just a tip, that i learned when i did grow in soil :)

--peace--
 
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