Is Serious Seeds Kali Mist still good?

[siftedunity]

Hi Siftedunity,

I am afraid that Hollow is right about Tutankhamon.
This also a statement that many are using our seeds and enter them into cannabis contest without our help to get the best phenotype, and they win with it.
(There is also cannabis cup done for growers and not the breeders.)

With our constant wins with AK47 there is no doubt that it is the most awarded strain.
Some say it is over exaggerated but proof is on paper done by many good and bad growers alike.

We are putting our seeds to the test at each batch.
Simon is on top of the game and he make sure he deliver the best quality in the business.

With most Respect!
Claude

the ak47 cuts they use to breed with are from the 90s. the proof isn't in the cups (which are mostly rigged) the proof is with the majority of the people growing out the seeds...eg the growers all over the forums. and you know they say the same thing on all of them because I know you have read the posts on the forums you frequent claude....with respect..

 

[Fly by Night]

KM x g13haze

KM x g13haze

Straight outta the homo closet

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day FBN

Did you make that cross yourself ?
She looks to lean to the G13 Hz side . Is she lemony ?

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[Fly by Night]

G`day FBN

Did you make that cross yourself ?
She looks to lean to the G13 Hz side .

Old serious km x seedsman gh13ze male. Sure did chuck this pollen, typically I make fems from nanners but these was regs. Smelled more like weeds, haze and spice...no lemon homie

Remain peaceful

 

[Serious Simon]

Most of this thread shows good experiences from growers, plus some nice pics of Kali Mist, exactly what this thread is meant for! Well done guys, you make me proud with all that, much obliged to you.

But, o boy, what a bunch of crap is also being written here about me and Serious Seeds, unbelievable! I had to LOL to some comments; 'Simons wife is doing all the breeding, while he is breeding birds' was one of the most funny ones. Was Mustafunk referring to my wife which I divorced about 10 years ago? Or to one of my girlfriends since? Wow, you manage to make things even more mysterious Mustafunk!

Before i comment more on Mustafunks' nonsense, I would like to tell a nice story about comparing Kali Mist to Super Lemon Haze. 'There goes edro', 'Bud_Man10' and 'ChaosCatalunya' were writing about this.

When i visited Argentina last year, the owner of 'HAZE' magazine, Alberto, gave me a taste of some of his excellent SLH. He told me he enters all competitions with that SLH. Ánd that he was winning all local competitions with it; first places only.

Then he entered the overall national Cup in Argentina where everybody of the whole country participated in. He entered his SLH and this time became 2nd in the Sativa category. The first place was taken by Kali Mist, grown from seeds by a local guy. A true event from 2012 which can easily be verified in one of the last 2012 issues of 'Haze' magazine from Argentina.

On most of what Mustafunk is saying in post 65 fits a dutch saying perfectly which goes something like this; 'He has heard the bell ringing but doesn't know where the music is coming from'. Meaning that he talks about certain situations and got some names right in the stories, but what he says is absolutely ridiculous. Similar stuff to that my wife has supposedly done all the breeding in stead of me.

As info to the people reading all this crap I can only say in short how things really were; Yes, I was working at Sensi Seeds while Tony (Sagarmatha) was working as a cashier at the Hash Museum (also owned by Sensi). In those days I already was breeding cannabis and producing seeds purely as a hobby. I am not ashamed to tell that I am not a great bussiness man and didn't see the potential of the seeds I created. Tony however did, and talked me into doing a partnership; 'Cerebral seeds' which lasted only a few months.

The names as well as the genetics of the strains I had created back then; AK-47, Chronic and Kali Mist were mine alone. To my knowledge has Tony never disputed that. Nor Adam (THSeeds), nor Shantibaba (Mr. Nice) of whom you all declare that they are 'the real breeders' behind Serious Seeds' strains. What a bunch of ridiculous lies!

I invite Mustafunk or anybody else to show me where any of the above mentioned people have stated the things Mustafunk is claiming. I dont think there is an actual source for these false rumours. I still talk to those people regularly and am sure that they have not said anything in this direction at all. So; Mustafunk, put your money where your mouth is. Come up with some solid source of all your lies or better; show your big tumb where it all came from!!

After our cooperation in 'Cerebral seeds' Tony still had some seeds which I had produced. He used those to create spin offs of my 3 strains and called them; Western Winds, Slyder and special K, apparently. Thats how it went and since people used (and use) genetics of my strains all the time, I was and am not bothered by that as long as they do not give my original names to their seeds. This has happened so many times, which I fought and made them change the names. Hence you have copies of AK-47 named as AK-48, AK-49, AK-74, OK-47, Olé-47, Armageddon-47, Tutankamon, Jack-47 and special K, and I probably forgot a few. Most of those copies were first sold under the similar name of AK-47 until I intervened.

Well, thats actually a good question to you right there Mustafunk; how come I retained the original names and not the other people who according to you did the breeding towards AK-47, Chronic and Kali Mist?? Wouldn't it be a bit strange that I have the original names while people from other companies supposedly created the genetics?? Get real. I have the names because it is me who created the genetics!! What other explanation could there be?? Do you think that other seed companies would let me have the names if I hadn't create them?? What kind of drugs have you been taking when you wrote that stuff??

On several occasions I have already explained that we entered AK-47 in the indica category during a cannabis cup and that a german journalist (G.B.I) assumed the AK-47 had now changed into a mostly indica-strain and wrote this into an article. That story (no need to go through old magazines; this article can be read on our website) was the source for those rumours. And this article simply gave false information. That happens. Verify with G.B.I. first before you continue to spread false info next time.

There is no Haze in Kali Mist at all, a fact that 'Chefboy6969' already concluded on the differences in taste/effect after smoking. Hats off for your sensory distuingishing capacities Chefboy!!

I think that covers most of the outregeous crap being written by people who obviously have something against me or Serious Seeds. Ususally I'm not too sensitive when there is some unfounded false accusation going around, but this was a bit too much. My apologies for the lengthy piece of text I needed for my reaction.

 

[snooze]

Kali Mist has been in my garden since 07, and believe me it's going anywhere. One of the few strains I've done mostly from seed. I have to say I've loved every plant I've grown in it's own way. Had a really soaring pheno with a lemon grass smell unlike the spicy peppery phenos that are more the norm, hands down the best kali i've had, soaring and no paranoia.

I did recently pick up a feminized pack, and maybe it was bad luck, but I didn't find anything great in that pack. And I don't think there is one pheno I've had that hasn't impressed me until this feminized pack. Could be bad luck, or just the fem packs aren't as good, I will say this is my first experience with feminized seeds.

Don't know about Kali mist pre 2000, but everything I've had from 07-now (sans the fem pack) has simply been incredible.

From what I understand there was some afghan thrown in at sometime to improve yield (not sure, would love some verification), and I've always found this strain to be a surprisingly large yielder.

 

[Serious Simon]

Kali Mist is a great yielder. I know a few guys who grow Kali commercially because although the flowering time is longer, the higher price they get for the end product makes more than up for that.
I am sorry to hear about your experience with the fem seeds. Personally I think the fem Kali is really nice. May be you were unlucky. Would you be interested in doing a test of fem Kali Mist again, to see if it was indeed bad luck? Or may be it was due to a difference in taste. I'm sure many would like to see your grow report in this thread!

 

[Brad]

Id like to thank you personally...kali mist is my all time fave sativa..hats off to you...truely a masterpiece...
PEACE

 

[spaceboy]

No offense Simon, but I dont really feel like your addressing the real issues here... Its easy to say that so and so was wrong about certain details, but what about all the unhappy grow reports scattered across the net stating quality is not what it used to be nor the genetics? I know I'm much more concerned if you are still using the same breeding stock than whether or not Kali mist has haze in it.

I'

 

[The Hummus Monk]

Simon - I'll do a test run of your fem Kali Mist and thoroughly document the whole grow. What do you think?

 

[Claude]

Hi Spaceboy,

You should read Simon's post as he is mentioning that Kali Mist have no Haze in it.

As for knowing if it is the same breeding stock you can find the answer on our site.

Respect
Claude

 

[nachoconqueso]

Ive read most people enjoy the post 2000 kali mist as much as the early 90's kali. I don't know. It's the same shit with bubblegum. There's a bunch of people saying that the bubblegum pheno is impossible to find but I had no problem finding one. I find that in most of the grow reports it is 95% grower error when they complain about a strain. How often do I hear on here "yeah I might have overfed and the temps were a little high...strain was crap for me"? Far too often imo. I spent several cycles on 4 phenos of bubblegum before I locked down the good one. It's not so easy. There's just too many grow reports by amateurs and with so little information about a strain of interest then these grow reports become fact when they're not. If I had a 10 pack of kali I could probably find a winner. Weird that Western Winds came up. I have 6 that just broke ground.

 

[redneck shogun]

I enjoyed vitality and you cant beat the price. It is half kali.

 

[Homebrewer]

Here is a Kali Mist (from 2010 I believe) at day 97. Not overly photogenic but the quality is there.

 

[Claude]

<<TOU>>

 

[MostlyMe]

Well, I'm convinced. I had Western Winds on my to do-list, but I am changing it to Kali Mist.

 

[Claude]

I enjoyed vitality and you cant beat the price. It is half kali.

Can you elaborate on the subject??

Respect
Claude

 

[siftedunity]

simon I wish you would address the real issues with the stock. its interesting reading your stories, but the un willingness to address particular questions directed towards you doesn't really help. theres a whole serious seeds section which needs your input.

 

[Mustafunk]

Sorry from the delay guys... First of all, I want to apologize to all the users for wasting their time and keeping all this drama going on, but after this call out, I’ve felt obliged to reply to such strong accusations made by Simon. I’m not willing to consent anybody to manipulate what I’ve said and I demand the respect and the manners I’m trying to keep to anyone who wants to debate with some finesse. My time is as valuable as anyone else's and believe me, replying to this took a while... I know that most won't take the time to read it with attention, specially Simon, who has already proven he reads what he wants and the nerves keep him out of focus.

I'm so honored by this last intervention, Serious Seeds’ front man himself finally taking some time from his busy agenda to attend his customers personally (why all this big seedbanks always delegate on employees to attend the forums, where customers are and first hand info is needed?). It’s good that you took part in the community as well; after all, it’s your business to care about customers and their problems. But it was pretty predictable that you could appear sooner or later. Sad thing is that you only do it after sensitive threads that could hurt Serious Seeds renowned fame and could certainly result in a sales/reputation drop.

Anyway, I want to remind you that this thread wasn’t at the Serious Seed sub forum but in the main Strains & Hybrids forum, where someone simply asked if the KM strain was what it used to be, and like it or not, we are here to share our experiences and opinions. So it wasn’t meant to be for posting pictures or Serious grows as you said, like the ones in your room.

The author got some dead honest replies because we all know that neither AK47, or Kali Mist and most of the classic strains from the 90s (Blueberry, Sensi Star, White Widow, Jack Herer and so on) remained as good as they used to be, the exact reason to this is still unknown but it seems to be something common among many classic strains. That’s why so many people are chasing good elite clones and old F2 seeds saved in their time capsules, or why reproductions from rescued old seeds get so many hype. Things were quiet unless some people got over sensitive. You, as a seed company making profit for us customers, are exposed to our opinions even more and that’s how it should be (you are charging us for a product you deliver). Problem is that instead of caring about customers or delivering a decent product, you care mostly about keeping sales up or raising them and avoiding polemics at the forums. You should go back to the lab instead and refine your product and stop expecting that everything could be solved with free seed packets. Anyway my opinions are based simply on mine and many other growers’ experiences I’ve been reading for years, just like all the information I took the time to gather, put together and share with everybody. It was available on the net for anyone curious enough, but obviously more dispersed.

Was Mustafunk referring to my wife which I divorced about 10 years ago? Or to one of my girlfriends since? Wow, you manage to make things even more mysterious Mustafunk!

I’m glad you liked the bird’s joke… to be honest and for the record, it’s not mine but from a knowledgeable Spanish grower who wrote about it in the past. So I clearly stated “Some even said…” before it, then your message doesn’t make any sense because I didn’t invent anything. Here what we are discussing it’s just the present quality of your strains (against what it used to be) or your skills and methods of breeding; a topic that you seem to avoid. Nobody is disrespecting anyone. Anyway, 10 years ago it’s around 90s, that’s in many people’s opinion, probably the last time Serious did some serious breeding as well (until the Serious 6 try?). Also in 1998 dutch police banned cultivation for seed production, so basically it's true that all the mass breeding done in Holland, stopped around 2000 (and with it, probably the quality started to decay as well).

On most of what Mustafunk is saying in post 65 fits a dutch saying perfectly which goes something like this; 'He has heard the bell ringing but doesn't know where the music is coming from'. Meaning that he talks about certain situations and got some names right in the stories, but what he says is absolutely ridiculous.

We know that saying about the bells too, we have it in Spain as well but apart from admitting I have most situations and names right, you didn’t prove anything wrong yet. Denying everything and calling me liar and asking what kind of drugs I have won’t prove anything, it just leaves you in a poor position. The only thing you did was complaining about the bird’s joke and giving useless information about Argentinian Cups that nobody needed. Keep on keeping on.

Yes, I was working at Sensi Seeds while Tony (Sagarmatha) was working as a cashier at the Hash Museum (also owned by Sensi). In those days I already was breeding cannabis and producing seeds purely as a hobby. The names as well as the genetics of the strains I had created back then; AK-47, Chronic and Kali Mist were mine alone. To my knowledge has Tony never disputed that. Nor Adam (THSeeds), nor Shantibaba (Mr. Nice) of whom you all declare that they are 'the real breeders' behind Serious Seeds' strains. What a bunch of ridiculous lies!

Yeah we all know that already and of course the names and strains were yours, but you created them with previous works from other breeders. I never said Shantibaba or Neville were the only breeders behind Serious’ strains but probably the source of the strains used to breed them (by the way, Shanti and Nev did great stuff and obviously had a big impact on the “Eurocanna” business explosion but nothing revolutionary like what's been done in USA, for me they are 3rd generation breeders already, brand new school, u know?). That’s the point here and the things I’ve said in my post. If you think it’s ok to release and make profit from strains created and maybe sold by other people, great for you. We all know it’s what most breeders do. But the fact that it sadly become common practice, doesn’t mean its ethical or the right approach with breeding. There are other new school great breeders who create new strains from their own sources and if they may work with other breeder’s creations and genetics, they are honest with the lineages or even ask for the blessings if needed. Otherwise, if your strains were created from heirloom lines from all over the world that you've brought and keep working since those trips, why not adding that to the strain info like the great breeders do, providing valuable info on the strains? I think everybody can guess why... I bet that skunk, afghan, northern lights and so on won't be such a novelty at the descriptions. At least with the Bubblegum it seems to be quite honest, so we all can see such a big breeding effort done with a strain that was already fantastic when it arrived to Europe from the states and sold as is. Such a big breeding work! Just like AK and Chronic, created during the Cerebral Seeds existence wih material sourced at Sensi (few months as you stated).

I invite Mustafunk or anybody else to show me where any of the above mentioned people have stated the things Mustafunk is claiming. I dont think there is an actual source for these false rumours. So; Mustafunk, put your money where your mouth is. Come up with some solid source of all your lies or better; show your big tumb where it all came from!!

Of course there is a source for this “rumours”, it’s well known information for the enthusiast, of course one must be careful and know how to sieve information and sources. Anyway, you need to understand that it’s not me or any other current or past Serious customer who really needs to be questioned or prove himself (neither his opinions or freedom of speech)… we are not selling anything, nor competing for who’s best grower or anything like that. It’s certainly Serious Seeds and their plants the ones who should be proved and stand on their boundaries, especially when so many people ask the same question. Let the plants speak for themselves! I’m tired about reading the same comments from people after growing your strains, just Google it! Even you had a happy customer a few posts before who was unhappy with the last feminised batches; now that’s pure statistics and it proves how common it is. And if your company feels the need to worry that much about some lies and gossiping on the forums as you say, it’s only because you have much to loose with all this, anybody can see this (don’t forget the seedbanks are simply another form of business companies selling a product with the goal of profiting and raising th sales). Do you think that good reputable breeders as Sam Skunkman, CBG/ACE, Tom Hill, DJ Short, Chimera, etc… are having this ridiculous issues or will care about a few bad comments? They don’t firstly because they are humble with the information, plants are decent, and in the case they aren’t, they take them from the market or go back to the lab and solve the problems and deal with customers. With good practices, few unhappy growers have still any reason to complain. Keep in mind that not all the growers will be ok to be manipulated with some free seeds and marketing tactics. Some of us have ideals and morals not only as persons but as growers and members of the cannabis culture too. And that’s what we demand.

Since people used (and use) genetics of my strains all the time, I was and am not bothered by that as long as they do not give my original names to their seeds. This has happened so many times, which I fought and made them change the names. Hence you have copies of AK-47 named as AK-48, AK-49, AK-74, OK-47, Olé-47, Armageddon-47, Tutankamon, Jack-47 and special K, and I probably forgot a few. Most of those copies were first sold under the similar name of AK-47 until I intervened. How come I retained the original names and not the other people who according to you did the breeding towards AK-47, Chronic and Kali Mist?? Wouldn't it be a bit strange that I have the original names while people from other companies supposedly created the genetics?? I have the names because it is me who created the genetics!! What other explanation could there be?? Do you think that other seed companies would let me have the names if I hadn't create them?? What kind of drugs have you been taking when you wrote that stuff??

We all know you worked at Sensi and then started cerebral seeds with Tony, being that the reason why you guys had the same genetics for your seedbanks. But having a great memory for the copies of all the people who wanted to take advantage on the AK47 fame, doesn’t prove anything else than your good memory. How does retaining names can deny anything? what if you retained all the knock-off names for your acclaimed Ak47?? Who cares about it? After all, only other mediocre seedbanks will sell AK47 copies or F2 seeds instead of developing better strains. Does it prove you’re your strains aren’t as good as they used to be? Does it reject the fact that you may have AK47, Kali and Chronic from other existing strains (hybrids from other breeders) that were well extended around Holland in that time?? Probably afghani, skunk, northern lights, Skunk X Haze, etc… and not from Thai, Cambodian, Colombian or any other landraces as you always suggested and your beautiful descriptions preach? I’m pretty sure AK it’s just a skunk cross, Chronic a Northern Lights cross and KM a Skunk Haze hybrid as it’s was said or something similar at least, but obviously you will never admit the truth, otherwise you will remain like a total liar and you company will loose all the credit. We all expect that already man, so you can sit back and relax.

That’s also why all the greedy breeders always sell their seeds under different fancy names besides their true origin and they love “secret recipe” lineages. We all know that Skunk 1 was (Mazar x Colombian)/(Mazar x Colombian) x Mexican and no one wasted ever the time in trying to copy it. It was far easier to get IBL Skunks and just make new hybrids crossing them with other strains. Same nowadays with the trendy elite cuts and so on. For me if a breeder lies or can’t be clear about his strain origins, he doesn’t deserve any credit. All this mystery just comes when they care too much about sales getting affected. And as for the name, you do not support selling a strain under a similar name like what happened with AK47 (and you even demanded they should be renamed) but selling someone’s genetics under a different and misleading name is OK?

On several occasions I have already explained that we entered AK-47 in the indica category during a cannabis cup and that a german journalist (G.B.I) assumed the AK-47 had now changed into a mostly indica-strain and wrote this into an article.

As for the AK47 at the Indica cup… that’s another ridiculous excuse to justify your decissions. No one supposed the lineage has necessarily changed drastically but the strain did because it was obviously inbred towards more afghan/skunk expressions and phenotypes. How then those fat leaves and short flowering times in the last years? What happened to some of the 70-75 days AKs that used to appear 10+ years agoHow can you enter the indica category if the strain is supposed to be a sativa and remains the same? How can end such nice overall plant end like a mostly indica (sometimes autoflowering, as some people reported, check the amazing responses from Serious here: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=256754) and couchlocking-stupifying-high strain? Was it magic? Maybe some inexperienced growers will believe this stuff: yeah AK47 is such a great strain that it has won either sativa and indica cups and it’s the strain it always was (but now, surprisingly it will just put you to sleep like most commercial genetics nowadays). C’mon, sounds a bit like a joke for the serious grower. So the strain hasn’t changed at all in all this time?? Well, I don’t think so and it happens so often that no one will get surprised.

There is no Haze in Kali Mist at all, a fact that 'Chefboy6969' already concluded on the differences in taste/effect after smoking. Hats off for your sensory distuingishing capacities Chefboy!!

All the stuff you are saying it’s totally senseless, when you are asked straight with questions on your products, you always try to find what to reply in other's growers opinions rather than professional responses from someone who should know everything about his plants… backing yourself up with stories and things like this, about an user who apparently grew KM and found out that they couldn’t be the same genetics because the taste and effect were different… seriously what kind of logical reason is that? You totally discredit yourself. How do you want us to think you guys are serious?? Cheese, Critical Mass and a whole pile of different plants came from the same Skunk genetics too. And how many strains came from the Skunk + Haze combination?? Skunk X Haze? NL5/Haze? Super Silver Haze, Jack Herer, C99, Amnesia Haze, SAGE?? And do they all smell and flower the same or have the same characteristics?? Hell, no! So honestly I don’t understand the point on that.

As for the Kali Mist lineage… let me tell you that it was Tony Sagarmatha himself at a private meeting with other Spanish breeders and friends at Spannabis fair around 10 years ago, who said the Kali Mist was a work done with old Skunk X Haze plants being selected in Holland (at least the legit Pre 1998 KM!!!). This info was shared by one of those Spanish breeders on the net as well for information purposes and without any interests. But hey! It’s the same damn old story, isn’t it? it happened so many times in the cannabis industry that we won’t keep believing the seed companies bullshit no more! Maybe you need to clear things up with Tony who was the first saying that, but after seeing all you seed bank ethics, I firmly believe it was true. How did he have this information? What kind of interests could he have on that? who knows the truth, for sure you won’t be the one telling or admitting anything. Anyway, we all know you didn’t made KM from real landraces (a with the other strains) and all that breeder bullshit it’s been said about KM. We know that almost no one is doing nor did hybrids from real landraces or heirloom lines in Holland since the 80s, simply because it wasn’t their goal, they just wanted to make money fast and easy selling seeds (so spending years in breeding a strain wasn’t among their plans). Thus, they started mixing existing strains as skunk, haze, northern lights and so on; and kept the tricks and secrets behind curtains of mystery. Man we’ve listened to that story so many times and from so many people and strains that now we honestly can’t believe it (unless it comes from the mouth of a well renowned and respected breeder with plenty facts to back him up). It’s like when seedbanks say they’ve made their amazing strains from Brazilian, Colombian, Afghan and Mexican genetics when the liars are just maybe selling White Widow X Skunk or even worse, S1 seeds from clones they got! C’mon, most are breeding indoors or in closets and releasing strains every year! What did you expect?? Crazy breeding like the one made in USA or Switzerland decades ago?

I think that covers most of the outrageous crap being written by people who obviously have something against me or Serious Seeds. Ususally I'm not too sensitive when there is some unfounded false accusation going around, but this was a bit too much. My apologies for the lengthy piece of text I needed for my reaction.

It’s obvious that you are feeling now the urgent need to solve this issue otherwise Serious Seeds reputation could be “seriously” questioned by many growers reading ICMAG. Taking the time to reply personally at the forums and just complain about the crap and hidden interests against you, doesn’t mean we will believe you. We all now MOST breeders lie to get more respect and sales. They lie on their genetics sources, they misuse strain names, they lie many times on so many stuff just in order to get more credit, fame, market quote and money, as simple as this. If even the most well know respected breeders sometimes trick us a little bit to get our interest, do you really think we will believe and respect what all this big capitalist seed companies as Green House, Serious Seed, Soma, Dinafem and others can say when they were already caught in so many lies and manipulation? I’m sorry, that won’t happen. It’s too late as they have lost their credibility already! It’s a shame that so many growers from the community have their eyes blinded, or how many American growers see this euro-seedbanks or Amsterdam as the fucking grail, something crazy whey they have much better stuff there, more pot culture and the prices of imported European seeds are just ridiculous (just like weed in Amsterdam), well, they have to pay all the expenses from transporting and mass-producing them in Spain and still make bills, so hence the prices!

The serious companies and breeders don’t have any need to keep “secret genetics” recipes away from cannabis enthusiasts or customers spending money in their seeds (who in fact deserve the utmost deference and respect from seedbanks for having invested on them). That’s the main point with Serious and with most seed companies, seed sellers and business men, against real cannabis lovers, enthusiast breeders and honest people who love the plant and the community more than the money they can make out from it.

People will question stuff when they have reasons for it… and Serious Seeds has certainly made some wrong decisions in the past, so now, they are just reaping what they have sown. Be it the changes in the genetics that even you guys admitted in the past, the marketing mistakes or many other things that simply have given out the impression of mediocrity and lack of ethics for the seed company towards its customers. If you were the serious company you preach, I’m sure everything will be much different. Because honestly, if you guys always say you’d rather stay with a small catalogue with proved quality, how can so many growers be upset or disappointed with your strains in the last years (otherwise why the pre98 fever or the people chasing old fruity and sativa AK47s phenos ever could happen?), what happened with the quality minimums? If you guys want respect from the community, maybe you (and most seedbanks) should change something, for a start you could:

- Be honest with lineages, genetics and breeding work, real breeders don’t need secret recipes because their breeding masterpieces can’t be replicated even having the same genetics. Also good and legit info for the advanced grower and customer who wants to know what is he really growing and not just fancy names and hype.

- Be honest when parents are lost and changes are made on the strains… if strain changed substantially or was inbred, why the strains are sold under the same names? Who no one explains this to customers? Do you keep all your parent plants since the 90s and which ones have you guys lost, resulting in changes on the strains? What changes happened and how they affected the strain characteristics? Why lies are made when customers ask about this changes? Why there is lack of info on the strains?

- Be honest when there are problems with your products and the customers, instead of always saying it never happened before and blaming the growers or delegating on employees who are told what to say and given templates to reply: our strains have won lots of cups, our strains are the same as always, it must be grower’s fault and so on. And seriously nobody cares about the cups!! Only the worst companies are showing off with the cups thing and they mean absolutely nothing! Maybe one was statistically the best plant entering the cup or it was a good selection against poor plants and so on. After all, who goes to cups? The best breeders? The best growers? I don’t think so, just those who could benefit from wining cups. It’s a senseless marketing tactic to say the least. Seeds are just plants; they aren’t mass made mechanical pieces, so sometimes you can’t predict them. We need honest breeders that can assume this.

Anyway, as for all the other things you said, many experienced and respected growers and members of the community believe that most of the strains you are selling, came in one or another way from third party genetics, Kali Mist, AK and Chronic probably from Sensi’s time and Bubblegum from USA. And then, your amazing breeding work started, making some cool crosses from great genetics and then adding some White Widow as well in 1995 to make the most of the the cannabis cups being won and white strains becoming a big trend in Amsterdam (as I’ve already said). No one said you are selling strains from other breeders as is (but certainly using them to develop your strains). So it’s just about being honest about the strain origins or the possible quality drops on them. It seems you guys don’t spend enough time at the lab and way too much behind the computers and desks. Especially nowadays, with so many seedbanks and great growers, you can’t live forever from the past fame/success and plants need to be top notch more than ever. But well, I need to say that sadly nowadays, the best seed banks seem to be those who invest the more in marketing and as a consequence, they sell more (even if they sell mediocre products).

So that’s how it is Simon, I’m not the one who needs to prove anything. If you really want to talk to us about good strains and breeding or something interesting (apart from praise your fantastic catalogue and discredit any opinion that may differ), you can start posting pictures of them, bring interesting and legit information about their history, how you got the parents, the clones kept, the breeding stages, the developing of your famous strains and all that we growers love… just providing honest info and anything that possible customers will like to have, as reputable breeders do. Thus, you will get the community respect and mine too. And get this in your head: selling a lot has nothing to do with delivering great strains or being a great seedbank.

Last but not least, I need to remark that I honestly don’t have anything against Serious, Greenhouse or anything like that. In fact, there was a time when I used to love them and think they were the best seed companies! But when someone gets more experience, gets his job done and refines his criteria, one just needs to pass the page and forget about the commercial strains with frequently bland potency and lack of characte, to find what you really love and share what you have learned in such path. This is not just about taking from the community and from the plant, one needs to give something as well, even if it’s just some love and experiences that came with the time. I don't get absolutely any benefit neither loss by posting my experiences and opinions in a forum, so what's the point on having the hate you say I have for a seed company I don't give a damn about? I'm just informing other growers so they can give it a think before doing purchases.

Congratulations to all those who reached this point and thanks a lot for your time. Peace to all and to Serious crew as well, my best wishes for your seed company too but I’d rather focus more on quality and satisfy the customers, specially the old customers (and avoid loosing them because of bad results, like it’s happening now) instead of following your common strategies, proved to be wrong. They are stopping you from spending more time at the lab and that’s exactly where breeders should be. I’d also appreciate if you stop writing my name and whining, this is a forum and I’m free to give my opinion. You have a seedbank to attend and I have other things to do apart from discussing about Kali Mist, so let’s move on.

P.S: Damn, nothing personal but it’s a fact that we will be much better if a big percentage of the mediocre commercial seed companies disappear. Because they are just robbing people and polluting the cannabis gene pool, misinforming many growers and changing the cannabis scene for worst.

INFO:

Originally Posted by british_hempire
Well, Sensi bought all their seeds from Nev until 1991 when Ben Dronkers forced Nevil to sell him the Castle and Seedbank business for a derisory undervalued sum because he knew Nev needed the money to pay his legal bills.

It all went to shit after that as no-one at Sensi had the first clue so they hired Nev back and he got everything in order again. After Nev left they had some guys like Simon there, the few strains they released were just simple derivatives from the stock Nev had left them.

Seed Buyer said:

This question is intended for Claude and I hope he can shed some light here. This is in no way an attack or slander to Serious Seeds.
In the spring of 2001 some college buddies and I went to A-Dam for spring break. Before I left I emailed Soma Seeds to see where I could buy his weed and his seeds. To my surprise he emailed me back personally and as it turned out Soma was an American and loved the company of other Americans and invited us to his flat. When we finally got to his flat he was in the middle of selling some crystals or rocks/gems of some sorts to a young couple. There was also another older man sitting quietly in the corner. He looked like Radar from the old show MASH except he had a massive bushy hippie beard (and he had a look in his eyes that made me think this guy had been tripping acid for the past 30 years straight). Soma was super hospitable and we blazed and talked shop for a while. It was at this point I told Soma I was mainly working with the Serious Seeds AK-47. Soma then made a comment about how Ak-47 had been created by the quite bearded guy sitting in the corner (who also was an American living in A-dam) and that it had been stolen from him. He also elaborated a little further about his involvement with AK-47. I do not remember this conversation verbatim, as this was over ten years ago and I had been smoking with Soma for about 45 minutes straight. So Claude, do you know of any old American hippie friend of Soma's (possible going by the nickname Radar) involvement with the development of this strain? Thanks for your time.

Hi Buyer,


I talk with Simon about this and here is is repply as I thought that this was a direct question to him.


Hi Claude,
I know Soma and the guy they are talking about. He has been working for Serious many years ago and was there when AK-47 won its first awards. The development of AK-47 however was done without him at all. I doubt if these guys still remember it correctly as I can hardly imagine that Soma would have said this. He knows very well that I did the AK-47 before he or Gene (name of radar) came to the Netherlands.

I hope this answer your question!

Claude said:

Hi Godless,

The liniage I do not know for sure but I can say it was made with colombien and 3 sativa strains from south Asia.

Respect
Claude

And later changed:

High,

Just to clarify the Kali Mist lineage:

The genetics of Kali Mist come from Cambodia, Colombia, Mexico and Africa.

Respect
Claude

There are also posts from Serious Seeds were they speak about adding some more indica, so what's up with the recipe? It's all bullshit or you guys are changing it all the time? lol

Simon Said:

The whole confusion started in 2003 when I decided to enter the AK-47 into the Indica-category of the High Times Cannabis Cup, in order to show that a sativa-dominant plant can also pack a strong indica-punch.
I was convinced that the potency of AK-47 was so strong, that she packs and indica-punch as strong as the best Indicas.
Back then the categories of the cup weren’t very strict and it was no problem to enter a strain in a different category.
AK-47 performed exactly as I expected and won the second place in the Indica category in 2003.

We also improved Chronic in 2000! I wanted to give it more potency .... so we crossed it to AK47

The Kali Mist was improved in 2000, so it is true that this is not the exact same genetics as in the beginning. In 2000 the father-plant we used was lost due to a police raid, but we still had seeds and plants from the same seesdstock as the fatherplant. Therefore we bred Kali Mist back with the still existing motherplant and even enhanced it in 2000(=bigger yield). The new and improved version has won 8 of the 10 cups behind the name Kali Mist! Just last year in 2012 our Kali Mist grown from our retail-seeds won the overall-cup in argentina (Copa del mar) beating super lemon haze!!!

KM not only had 2 changes, the first in 1997, when it was mixed to afghan to cut flowering and improve production. Customers complained so much, that Serious felt themselves forced to do something with it. The KM sold since 2000 (2nd change), it's just a remade because in 1998 or 1999, Serious have lost the parent plants due to a police raid. So nowadays, there is much more variation and it's longer flowering. This is the reason why the Pre 98 KM fever started and why some prefered the Western Winds, a strain that never changed. Maybe people like some nice phenos from the new KM, but that's not the point, for god's sake!!

From an interview:

An extremely bright and pleasant man, Simon prides himself on his classic and stable strains. His philosophy is to sell only the best genetics and, as such, his current roster of strains stands at five. Rather than constantly working to develop new strains, Simon intends to ensure stability and make improvements to his current strains over time. When the improvements are successful, he doesn't rename a strain, but rather denotes the date of improvement in his seed catalog and keeps the original name of that genotype.

Ganja on AK:

As I understand it AK-47 - a pure Afghani hash plant with outstanding resin production and an exceptionally fast flowering time (hence the 47 part of the name) - was around since the Eighties. The 'AK' is said by some to be a reference to Afghan Kush, ie from the Afghan part of the Hindu Kush mountain range or (meaning almost the same thing) a kush plant from Afghanistan.

The two meanings tied together very well as AK-47, since this was a strain that was brought out of Afghanistan around the time of the Soviet invasion, when there was a huge excess of that particular gun in that particular country.

Anyway, at some point in the Nineties, the name AK-47 was made a registered trade mark for a particular strain of cannabis seeds, by Serious Seeds, if I recall correctly. So, from that point on, no-one else could legally apply the name to another cannabis strain. Hence OK-47 (not a hugely enticing name, IMHO), which is the original Afghan Kush strain from the 80's.

Vibes.

 

[Homebrewer]

Well Musta, I read the whole thing and I think you're living in an ideological fantasy land. While I too would like to hear about what went into each and every strain I grow and the methods and techniques used to breed, regardless of the breeder, it's just not going to happen. It's not going to happen just like that Master Chef in your city wont give you his recipe to his award-winning shecrab bisque that you love so much. What if that favorite soup of yours was inspired by another, does it taste any worse? What if his heavy-cream supplier changes, should that be noted on the menu if the soup is still meets the chef's standards? This is just a broad example but I think you know what I'm getting at.

To an extent, I see where you're coming from but there are like 3 breeders out of the hundreds who live in that fantasy land of yours and they're just playing the seed game with a different sales pitch (ie, buy our beans because we 'care' and we're 'honest'). It's the same angle craft breweries use to battle AB InBev. Big targets are easy targets.