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The Dangers of H2O2 in hydroponics (“The Slime” and Root Rot)
U
Ultra Current
Test 1
5 gallon bucket with 4 gallons of water at 70.52 degrees f. Air stone is rated at 10.83 L/min of air.
No air stone and no h2o2:
65.1% saturation, 5.74 ppm, 5.74 mg/L
Air stone only (rated at 10.83 L/min):
95.8% saturation, 8.47 ppm, 8.47 mg/L
40 mL 29% h2o2 with no airstone:
103.9% saturation, 9.20 ppm, 9.20 mg/L
Observations: after about an hour of adding h2o2, brand new airstone stopped working and slime appeared on the 1/4" hose. No matter how much more h2o2 that I add, saturation point won't pass 9.30 ppm.
After getting h2o2 in my only good eye left, I washed out my eye and halted test until further notice.
5 gallon bucket with 4 gallons of water at 70.52 degrees f. Air stone is rated at 10.83 L/min of air.
No air stone and no h2o2:
65.1% saturation, 5.74 ppm, 5.74 mg/L
Air stone only (rated at 10.83 L/min):
95.8% saturation, 8.47 ppm, 8.47 mg/L
40 mL 29% h2o2 with no airstone:
103.9% saturation, 9.20 ppm, 9.20 mg/L
Observations: after about an hour of adding h2o2, brand new airstone stopped working and slime appeared on the 1/4" hose. No matter how much more h2o2 that I add, saturation point won't pass 9.30 ppm.
After getting h2o2 in my only good eye left, I washed out my eye and halted test until further notice.
U
Ultra Current
The next test will be to determine how much 29% h2o2 added to water at 70 degrees brings the saturation to 100% DO.
The following test will be how long does the added oxygen last compared to buckets with plants and buckets without plants.
The following test will be how long does the added oxygen last compared to buckets with plants and buckets without plants.
These tests have already been done in a few different threads UC. Ive found it doesnt matter about times with H2o2, still get the growth boost from the extra DO & dead res benefits. I personally will always use H2o2 in NFT/DWC.
Still ill be interested to see your results, cant say i totally agree with the thread title, or alot of whats been said in respect of H2o2. ime H2o2 blasts rootrot into next year. Im impressed with the work youve done on the Erythromycin though, if i ever get the slime again, we'll have to give it a go. G'Luck
DO test: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=206119&highlight=tests
Slime Thread: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55259&highlight=Slime (you know this one) Seems beneficial bacteria is another answer.
Still ill be interested to see your results, cant say i totally agree with the thread title, or alot of whats been said in respect of H2o2. ime H2o2 blasts rootrot into next year. Im impressed with the work youve done on the Erythromycin though, if i ever get the slime again, we'll have to give it a go. G'Luck
DO test: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=206119&highlight=tests
Slime Thread: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55259&highlight=Slime (you know this one) Seems beneficial bacteria is another answer.
Last edited:
U
Ultra Current
Thanks for the links! That DO thread was a good read and interesting. Personally I think there are problems with some of the tests but I will continue here. There are plenty of growers that have problems with h2o2 but not younsonthat is good. The title of the thread might not make sense now but it will later when I'm done and put it all together. Thanks for all the info!
pH Balanced
New member
Thank Youz so so so much !
Great research ! Anybody have any ideas,
about my Res./Nute problem ?
pHBalanced
Great research ! Anybody have any ideas,
about my Res./Nute problem ?
pHBalanced
U
Ultra Current
What problems are you having?
What nutrients should I use if using bleach system?
What nutrients should I use if using bleach system?
Running Cyco Bloom A and B with bleach @ .5 to 1.00 ppm Free chlorine. Found using there additives had urea and ammonium in it that reacts to the bleach it dropped the Free Chlorine to .11 in (some as few as an instant to 3 hrs) also zone and sm90 dropped the free chlorine off to .00 so anybody have a good nuit plan or brand name ones I can buy. Like to have PK boosters and more additives at my disposal.
ebb and flow system rockwool and hydroton
Cyco nuits
1000w
Co2
water temp 66
ppm 1000
pH 5.6-5.9 let it ride up slow
What nutrients should I use if using bleach system?
Running Cyco Bloom A and B with bleach @ .5 to 1.00 ppm Free chlorine. Found using there additives had urea and ammonium in it that reacts to the bleach it dropped the Free Chlorine to .11 in (some as few as an instant to 3 hrs) also zone and sm90 dropped the free chlorine off to .00 so anybody have a good nuit plan or brand name ones I can buy. Like to have PK boosters and more additives at my disposal.
ebb and flow system rockwool and hydroton
Cyco nuits
1000w
Co2
water temp 66
ppm 1000
pH 5.6-5.9 let it ride up slow
Really you can use many oxidisers for this purpose, chlorine, H2O2, Condys crystals, O3 - they all have their pros and cons. The main pro with H2O2 is that the by products are only heat, water and oxygen before dissipation. Chlorine however is toxic to all life + sodium hypochlorite solutions like Clorox generally contain a lot of sodium chloride (common salt).
MadeInGermany
New member
Dr. Buddington
Member
So why don't people use ORP meters? Takes the guess work out of sterilizing the rez. I was adding calcium hypochlorite at the correct "theoretical" rate. When I checked with a Hanna ORP pen, I realized the ORP level was quite low. Now I add 1 tsp of pool shock to 250l of RO water, once the nutes mix through I bring the ORP level up to 780 millivolts using 12% liquid sodium hypochlorite (takes 10-25 ml).
I had a couple extra plants sitting around, so I tested for phytotoxicity of high ORP levels. I didn't see any damage caused to the plants with a 900 mV ORP level solution! The one plant that received 1000 mV solution showed clear signs of bleach damage - bleached young tissue, fan leaf necrosis at the edges. The damaged plant has come back fully after a few weeks of lower ORP levels, H2O2.
Bottom line - when you are not accurately measuring the actual ORP levels, you cant tell how effective the sterilization properties of a solution are. If you don't want to use an ORP meter and bleach - use Physan 20 or SA-20 at 10 ml/gal.
I had a couple extra plants sitting around, so I tested for phytotoxicity of high ORP levels. I didn't see any damage caused to the plants with a 900 mV ORP level solution! The one plant that received 1000 mV solution showed clear signs of bleach damage - bleached young tissue, fan leaf necrosis at the edges. The damaged plant has come back fully after a few weeks of lower ORP levels, H2O2.
Bottom line - when you are not accurately measuring the actual ORP levels, you cant tell how effective the sterilization properties of a solution are. If you don't want to use an ORP meter and bleach - use Physan 20 or SA-20 at 10 ml/gal.
Dr. Buddington
Member
Good to know that someone else doesn't see room for guessing in chemistry!
Well, the nutes I get are made locally. 3 part plus a silica supplement. They only use nitrates, no urea. Excellent results for 6+ years using the same line. Its called Wild Thing and available from All Seasons Garden store in Edmonton, Alberta. As for which mainstream nute line that is good with bleach, I have no idea.
Well, the nutes I get are made locally. 3 part plus a silica supplement. They only use nitrates, no urea. Excellent results for 6+ years using the same line. Its called Wild Thing and available from All Seasons Garden store in Edmonton, Alberta. As for which mainstream nute line that is good with bleach, I have no idea.
bubbler720
Member
root rot in hydro?
root rot in hydro?
Hi All, I'm looking for help making a diagnosis on these sick ladies in veg.
1. hydro rockwool; top drip; ph 5.8-6.2; recirculating 80% RTW 20%
2. started from seed. master kush suffering the most - but some MK are ok; most critical are ok, some are suffering from the same
3. problem is the new growth is stunted. plant still stretching up, but not like healthy plants next to it -- which weighs out a number of factors why these few are suffering
4. veg = 18hrs light on/ 6 off
5. watering 1x day, when lights come on, to saturation. 23 hours later, cubes partly dried out. ppm with nutes 1300. RO water with cal/mag
6. roots that are showing on the bottom of the cube look healthy - white or just off-white. no brown or slime
7. no mites - have scope and nothing. fought off cyclamen/broad mites in the past this is a new batch from seed, still scoping and nothing.
8. haven't seen this prob before - only new items for me are starting from seed, sealed a/c, full time co2 1500 ppm.
any ideas much appreciated
root rot in hydro?
Hi All, I'm looking for help making a diagnosis on these sick ladies in veg.
1. hydro rockwool; top drip; ph 5.8-6.2; recirculating 80% RTW 20%
2. started from seed. master kush suffering the most - but some MK are ok; most critical are ok, some are suffering from the same
3. problem is the new growth is stunted. plant still stretching up, but not like healthy plants next to it -- which weighs out a number of factors why these few are suffering
4. veg = 18hrs light on/ 6 off
5. watering 1x day, when lights come on, to saturation. 23 hours later, cubes partly dried out. ppm with nutes 1300. RO water with cal/mag
6. roots that are showing on the bottom of the cube look healthy - white or just off-white. no brown or slime
7. no mites - have scope and nothing. fought off cyclamen/broad mites in the past this is a new batch from seed, still scoping and nothing.
8. haven't seen this prob before - only new items for me are starting from seed, sealed a/c, full time co2 1500 ppm.
any ideas much appreciated
Attachments
Here is where I would start if I was you. Go and get your 2 calibration solutions and check your pH meter with the 4 and the 7 to make sure your meter isnt broken and is spitting the right numbers out to you. If your meter is correct and your solution has been 5.8-6.2, squeeze a little solution out of a few of your cubes and check the pH. Your pH may be much higher in the cube itself. Let me know what you found and we will see where to go from there. Also your PPM and CO2 levels are pretty high. If my plwnts were yours i would be at 1 EC for your nutrients and 600 PPM for your CO2.
bubbler720
Member
Hi Snype, thanks for the reply. I calibrated ph pen and all checked out. I monitor runoff daily, and runoff and res are within 5.8-6.2. I did more research, I think the problem may be pythium. For a couple days I ran low ppm - say half normal - 750pm (1.5ec i'm on 500 scale), cut back co2, and ran 30% h202 at 3ml/gal, along with 1ml/gal pythoff, run to waste instead of recycle, and things are looking better. i'm adding h202 and pythoff every day (rtw so fresh nute solution every day)
Nice that you got it figured out. I use chlorine at all times at the rate of 0.5 ppm. Costs me around 1 cent per use. I add back chlorine at least once per week.
Hi Guys,
I cant get pool shock in my location unfortunately or clorex bleach
I have found a possible replacement for this and hoping you guys might be able to help me decide if its okay or not?
It says:
Active ingredient – Sodium Hypochlorite – available chlorine content of 13%.
Liquid chlorine requires no pre-dissolving, has no residue and requires daily application. Dosage 500ml per 10 000 litres of water, if stabilised requires 250ml per 10 000 litres of water.
This product is also an ideal Shock treatment for Salt water pools as it is a sodium (salt) based product.
Benefits
Fast Acting Chlorine, no need to dissolve
Zero Residue
Strength:
130g/L (13%)
Pack sizes:
5L, 10L
http://www.poolresources.com.au/product/freestyle-liquid-chlorine/
Would this be suitable to use ?
Thanks Guys
I cant get pool shock in my location unfortunately or clorex bleach
I have found a possible replacement for this and hoping you guys might be able to help me decide if its okay or not?
It says:
Active ingredient – Sodium Hypochlorite – available chlorine content of 13%.
Liquid chlorine requires no pre-dissolving, has no residue and requires daily application. Dosage 500ml per 10 000 litres of water, if stabilised requires 250ml per 10 000 litres of water.
This product is also an ideal Shock treatment for Salt water pools as it is a sodium (salt) based product.
Benefits
Fast Acting Chlorine, no need to dissolve
Zero Residue
Strength:
130g/L (13%)
Pack sizes:
5L, 10L
http://www.poolresources.com.au/product/freestyle-liquid-chlorine/
Would this be suitable to use ?
Thanks Guys
bubbler720
Member
The problems I've been having - that can be seen in my pics - have more to do with burning co2 in a sealed room than anything else. I just recently switched to a sealed room and kept the propane co2 generators. The plants have been suffering ever since - with co2 levels safely under 1500ppm.
I already have co2 burners but for anyone considering a sealed room I would stay away from burners and go the tank route. The reason is toxic build up of ethylene and sulfur dioxide - byproducts of the combustion to generate co2. Ethylene and sulfur dioxide is what has been making my plants claw, wilt, have slow growth, and generally look sick and under preform. The solution is that a sealed room must be vented at least once / day with fresh air. Some growers have recommended periodic venting ie 90 sec air exchange every 3 hours.
Here's the best info I was able to find:
Ethylene is one of the banes of sealed room growers. Sealed rooms have to be vented daily to prevent namely ethylene (always a problem but to a further extent when burners are used) and sulfur dioxide (only a problem when burners are used) buildup. The faster your plants are growing, the more ethylene they release. Its active on a part-per-billion level and causes slowed growth rates and flower/fruit abortion in many crops along with other physiological mutations.
Unvented greenhouse heaters and natural gas CO2 generators have been completely phased out of the greenhouse floriculture business in the U.S. and Canada. You wont see either in a commercial flower greenhouse in America nowadays, and that's all because of the ethylene (and to a lesser extend sulfur dioxide) issues that come with the combustion in sealed environments. The phasing out of natural-gas CO2 generators in commercial greenhouses is a more recent phenomenon (last 5 years) since it was originally thought that ethylene wouldn't reach significant levels with high quality generators. More scrupulous real-life testing showed that if the CO2 generator was providing adequate amounts of CO2, it was also providing supra-optimal amounts of ethylene and causing slowed growth rates and and undesired physiological characteristics, and so burners were phased out.
One of the many priorities in creating viable crops that can be grown in space, such as the test crops grown on MIR and ISS, is creating Ethylene insensitive cultivars that can handle the unnatural levels of ethylene that build up in sealed rooms, along with creating dwarf cultivars, heavy guttation cultivars, photoperiod-insensitive cultivars etc.
I already have co2 burners but for anyone considering a sealed room I would stay away from burners and go the tank route. The reason is toxic build up of ethylene and sulfur dioxide - byproducts of the combustion to generate co2. Ethylene and sulfur dioxide is what has been making my plants claw, wilt, have slow growth, and generally look sick and under preform. The solution is that a sealed room must be vented at least once / day with fresh air. Some growers have recommended periodic venting ie 90 sec air exchange every 3 hours.
Here's the best info I was able to find:
Ethylene is one of the banes of sealed room growers. Sealed rooms have to be vented daily to prevent namely ethylene (always a problem but to a further extent when burners are used) and sulfur dioxide (only a problem when burners are used) buildup. The faster your plants are growing, the more ethylene they release. Its active on a part-per-billion level and causes slowed growth rates and flower/fruit abortion in many crops along with other physiological mutations.
Unvented greenhouse heaters and natural gas CO2 generators have been completely phased out of the greenhouse floriculture business in the U.S. and Canada. You wont see either in a commercial flower greenhouse in America nowadays, and that's all because of the ethylene (and to a lesser extend sulfur dioxide) issues that come with the combustion in sealed environments. The phasing out of natural-gas CO2 generators in commercial greenhouses is a more recent phenomenon (last 5 years) since it was originally thought that ethylene wouldn't reach significant levels with high quality generators. More scrupulous real-life testing showed that if the CO2 generator was providing adequate amounts of CO2, it was also providing supra-optimal amounts of ethylene and causing slowed growth rates and and undesired physiological characteristics, and so burners were phased out.
One of the many priorities in creating viable crops that can be grown in space, such as the test crops grown on MIR and ISS, is creating Ethylene insensitive cultivars that can handle the unnatural levels of ethylene that build up in sealed rooms, along with creating dwarf cultivars, heavy guttation cultivars, photoperiod-insensitive cultivars etc.
