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big plant ppk
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
Chloemobile
Active member
I guess that is what i am trying to understand - the benefit of the airgap vice sitting it in the rez..too moist? Obviously not ungrowable conditions..but I guess less moist vs more moist ( i know i am using very scientific terminology here so bare with me..) is more optimal for plant growth?
Trying to figure how how to adapt this to my space 18D x 24" long with about 3 feet of total height. Only challenge i have is that i have a pll running vertically down the center so i have basically two 12 inch sides to grow in...
Trying to figure how how to adapt this to my space 18D x 24" long with about 3 feet of total height. Only challenge i have is that i have a pll running vertically down the center so i have basically two 12 inch sides to grow in...
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I had a free minute at work and thought y'all might like a simplified set of the lastest topics...lol
View image in gallery
Some good reads. .
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0422124327665.html
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg062152557037.html
And if words are not your thang...
http://www.google.com/search?q=poro...780,d.cGE&fp=ce9373ffe9234a9a&biw=360&bih=348
And that's all I got's ta say about that.
View image in gallery
Some good reads. .
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0422124327665.html
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg062152557037.html
And if words are not your thang...
http://www.google.com/search?q=poro...780,d.cGE&fp=ce9373ffe9234a9a&biw=360&bih=348
And that's all I got's ta say about that.
SecondAttempt
Active member
One plant topped early split into two tops.. PLL down the center keep the center clean. 2 gallon oil drain pan from the auto store over a 2 gallon bucket. Pump in the 2 gallon lower pumping through 1/4 spaghetti tube into upper.
BAM!
D9... Can you please tell us what you consider mud... b/c this is what I have after soaking thrifty-sorb for 24hs. I'm going to continue soaking for another 24hs and re-examine.
D
DaveTheNewbie
can you break down the rocks into mud/sludge with your fingers?
D
DaveTheNewbie
screening turdface idea :
tall thin crate with screen all around
leaf blower to blow all the dust / fines out
credit to the second of dawgs links
tall thin crate with screen all around
leaf blower to blow all the dust / fines out
credit to the second of dawgs links
No the rocks don't break down. I didn't do a rinse after screening, so there are some fine particles that have the appearance of mud... but when I grab a handfull and squeeze it, what I have is what's pictured above. Looks ok to me? It looks the same this morning.
hi, chloemobile! welcome!
well, the media filled tailpiece, used in conjunction with an adjustable "air gap" between the medium and the reservoir, both removes the perched water table from the root zone after each pulse watering and maintains a permanent hydraulic connection between the solution and the root zone.
there are many reasons that these things are beneficial and it could take quite some time to adequately explain it all. it has all been discussed at length in many places in my threads and the threads of other ppk growers.
it's really about the physics of container gardening and the plant reactions.
but you do not have to understand it all to build one and use it. it is extremely simple and easy to build in the form you see here on this thread.
you see two plumbing options here and there are more ways to do it than this. as icmag member gregor mendel put it; "it's a flow diagram, not a specific build".
the first version here is my veg chamber. it could be done in a spare room like a small bedroom and produce 3-4 monster plants. veg and flower in place.
but i built it to allow me to have a dedicated flower room to run up to ten week strains in sequence, perpetual style.
a plant a week.
if you want to build one i suggest you find someones build and style that fits your situation and copy it to start with.
then as you operate it all the principles that make it work become apparent.
it is extraordinarily simple.
honestly, i don't know unless i go check but it usually is between 5.6 and 6.2 in both the veg and flower res's.
i have 110 ppm tap water here that the plants seem to like.
i feed by tablespoon now, steering the solution up or down as needed. i use 44 gal brutes as volume/mixing tanks and i fill to approx 2" below the rim.
then dump in 5,6, or 7 tablespoons of each part of the jack's formula, depending on which way i want to steer the solution.
this will come out to approx 600-650, 750-825, and 900-1000 ppm respectively. plus my tap water ppm of 110. i'm not real careful and it will vary but it doesn't matter much because there is no immediate effect on the plants.
i have 3 brute's linked for a volume tank in flower. they all drain simultaneously, giving me 126 gals approx at 2" down, so by the time the solution gets to the float valve it is thoroughly blended and averaged.
then, in the float control box, because of the way it operates, the input is continuously blended into the output. another averaging of values. then into the main body of solution through the little 3/64" hole, where it averages again.
diffusion guarantees this every time. i do no sudden changes in either ec or ph.
for example last week i had gone too long without checking the flower system.
it is in a state of week to week transition now as i load the room on schedule.
so, it had gone up to about 1550 ppm. i checked because i noticed the first 2 plants in the room had a little tip burn. curiously the ph was 5.9.
coincidentally my volume tanks were about dry. i dumped the remaining few ounces and refilled with straight tap water.
it took about a week but the ec came down to about 750 ppm so i then re-topped the tanks and mixed in nutrients.
only this time i dropped to the approx 600 ppm level, which is 5 tablespoons of each for me. i'll check it again tonight when the show starts.
the flower system was filled for the first time over 8 weeks ago and has only been added to in the manner described.
i initially added ph down right after mixing but have found since that i can just let it float. so i'm currently using no ph adjusters in either system.
i put absolutely nothing but jack's into the system.
i just checked my veg res with the meters and i'll put some pics up later.
howdy! welcome to the asylum!
i don't know if it is or not because i can't see much and you did not provide any info.
if you could tell us more it would help.
ok, i'll try again!
the left 2 are the autozone "oil absorbent", the right 2 are "turface mvp" or "primera one"
i put both hands together with moderate pressure and rubbed them back and forth 3 times.
the oil absorbent disintegrated and left a muddy feel and the turface remained hard and gritty feeling.
bobble, you may have a better grade or batch.
i'm going to check some more brands.
also, found that sam's club has some type of DE that is finding it's way into the bonsai group. marketed as a spill control product.
thanks for your input.
the left 2 are the autozone "oil absorbent", the right 2 are "turface mvp" or "primera one"
i put both hands together with moderate pressure and rubbed them back and forth 3 times.
the oil absorbent disintegrated and left a muddy feel and the turface remained hard and gritty feeling.
bobble, you may have a better grade or batch.
i'm going to check some more brands.
also, found that sam's club has some type of DE that is finding it's way into the bonsai group. marketed as a spill control product.
thanks for your input.
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D
DaveTheNewbie
BTW i read that Espoma Soil Perfecta is the same as turdface for those that can find it
Thank you for the response! Yes, I would encourage you to try again. I left the thrifty-sorb soak for 48 hs, I took a handful, and rinsed out the fine particles with my garden hose. Then I rubbed the granules back and forth in my hands as suggested. The granules didn't break down, but rather they remained coarse. Your picture of turface is how the thrifty-sorb appeared in my hands after rubbing back and forth. Without rinsing, my hands looked like a combination of the two.
On another note... Everyone now knows that we are both white males... lol
icdog
Member
D9 thanks for the update on ec and ph. My ppk test is setup, have another question.
In the multi ppk setup you have going you said you time the pulse to fill the container and use the cycle timer to control when it is on and off. Have you noticed any issue with overfilling a container? I ask as plants grow differently and can have a different root mass does this effect how quickly the container fills up possibly leading to an overflow, say one plant is really huge? Or is this not an issue in a ppk?
In the multi ppk setup you have going you said you time the pulse to fill the container and use the cycle timer to control when it is on and off. Have you noticed any issue with overfilling a container? I ask as plants grow differently and can have a different root mass does this effect how quickly the container fills up possibly leading to an overflow, say one plant is really huge? Or is this not an issue in a ppk?
People deal with this differently, but one of the better solutions is to set up some sort of valves so you can dial in the flow to each container. If you look in the first post D9 is using a garden hose manifold right off the pump for the vegging plants.
Sorry I didn't give more details, was on the way outa the house.
What your looking t was a glass mason jar where I lifted the soil/root ball out and put glass beads below the soil and filled it with water.
My understanding is ppk at a high level is growing a hydro plant outside of the water itself and either pump it over the roots or wick it up?
Good luck with finding a good & affordable medium. Love that people like you are pushing the boundaries towards the next leap in growing. Thank you
Budelight
D9 sorry to be clogging up your thread man, it just seems like the spot for centralized ppk info right now.
We've been discussing mediums a lot. I found this post on garden web which has a lot of good info about soil drainage and PWT. Most of it will be familiar to to the ppk experts but for the new guys it's a really nice primer:
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg1221344425812.html?40
It definitely helped me understand why my plants were choking in the coco, even amended heavily, and why the perlite drainage layer in the tails contributed to the problem instead of helping.
Also contains a couple mixes which could be tried out in a ppk, the gritty mix looks like it might work pretty good!
"The gritty mix:
1 part uncomposted screened pine or fir bark (1/8-1/4")
1 part screened Turface
1 part crushed Gran-I-Grit (grower size) or #2 cherrystone
1 Tbsp gypsum per gallon of soil (eliminate if your fertilizer has Ca)
CRF (if desired) "
probably get rid of the gypsum and CRF for our purposes.
We've been discussing mediums a lot. I found this post on garden web which has a lot of good info about soil drainage and PWT. Most of it will be familiar to to the ppk experts but for the new guys it's a really nice primer:
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg1221344425812.html?40
It definitely helped me understand why my plants were choking in the coco, even amended heavily, and why the perlite drainage layer in the tails contributed to the problem instead of helping.
Also contains a couple mixes which could be tried out in a ppk, the gritty mix looks like it might work pretty good!
"The gritty mix:
1 part uncomposted screened pine or fir bark (1/8-1/4")
1 part screened Turface
1 part crushed Gran-I-Grit (grower size) or #2 cherrystone
1 Tbsp gypsum per gallon of soil (eliminate if your fertilizer has Ca)
CRF (if desired) "
probably get rid of the gypsum and CRF for our purposes.
D
DaveTheNewbie
pine or fir bark : wouldnt that break down?
