Silver's second straight-bulb several strain sweetened soil sweetness. Seriously.

[silver hawaiian]

remember that PGRs are really just sea kelp gibberlins and auxins (or something like that)
hormones that occour naturally but are refined
theres no reason that aptus couldnt make an organic equivalent
in fact i know of a few organic legal PGRs available over here. Rock juice organic for example.
but hey, what do i know, its just a thought

It's funny - after I made that post, I kind of saw this coming..

I should revise that statement - perhaps "An organic approach seems to be fundamentally at odds with an approach that would include the use of PGRs."

..And I should add that when I make that statement, I'm thinking strictly of chemicals like paclobutrazol & products like Bushmaster, Gravity, etc..

But who cares - now we've opened the door to the conversation about organic PGRs..

Looking good silver!


Oregon has the strictest labeling laws. This is a good thing since standards these days are "low" and deceptive.

Think Paclobutrazol.

The entire house an garden line is facing some mislabeling issue, sure doesn't stop the local stores from selling it though.

Organic is starting to mean about as much as "all natural" in many cases ...

This! .. is all exactly what I thought after I posted with this morning's coffee.

PGR means plant growth regulator, basically something that "regulates" plant hormones,
I don't think all pgrs are naturally occurring, and definitely not all safe..

Yes alfalfa and beeswax has tricantonal (pgr) which regulates auxins(growth hormone often found in the auxiliary node) and tricantonal can be isolated and concentrated. Safer PGR.

Paclobutrazol (pgr) aka phosphoload aka flower dragon...not natural afaik, known to cause cancer in fact, listed for ornamental use only. Unsafe PGR although some may say its safe in smaller dosages, but some may say that's greed justifying.

Let's take aptus fasilitstor for instance. It has salicylic acid in it..
I think Aspirin has acetlysalicylic Acid, certain plants have salicylic acid. Which costs the most? Which is the most active, the bottle or the plant. Is one more effective?

On top of that even though pgrs can be found in nature, it doesn't always mean they are organic (at least in oregon) unless the plant itself was grown organically etc.

Many things aren't "organic" but certified for organic production, I think rock juice might fall into that category.

...Crikey. Yeah, all that.

hl45, now you've got me piqued on the possibility of alfalfa (or other easily-acquired organic meals/substances) not just as a source of food, but also to help manage stretch.

Am I reading too much into what you'd posted about the alfalfa and the beeswax?

It's funny - I was also gifted a small bottle of the Fasilator, but it just felt a little too voodoo-y to bother with. Perhaps I'll do another side-by with the Nightmares..

 

[MileHighGuy]

Here are the PGR's: (As Dank Frank pointed out, they are plant hormones (organic PGR's what have you) because PGR is typically reserved for man made wanna be hormones.)

Auxins, Gibberellins, Cytokininis, Abscissic acid and Ethylene. Newer are Brassinosteroids, Salicylic Acid, Polyamines and Jasmonates.

Alfalfa has tricantonal and is a very good PGR typically used in the first 4 weeks of flower to shorten the nodes and increase side branching or basal breaks as they call it.

Works excellent as a foliar and will control stretch like you were speculating.

Go easy with anything alfalfa, I use about a 1/2 Cup Alfalfa meal in a 5 gallon bucket with 4 gallons of water in it and bubble it for 2-3 days. (Just getting into this by the way by no means an expert)

Strain and use that water to feed with or to foliar with.... if it's to strong of if your worried cut in half with water or use 1/4 cup.

Salicylic Acid is another PGR and is in rooting hormones.

Here is a link to an awesome book on the subject, you can read the intro and a lot more.

Salicylic Acid Book

Check out Chapter 2:

Aloe Vera has high amounts of SA and Saponins and for this reason I really enjoy using the 200x Concentrated dry powder.

Now for some of the others you can do that Barley Sprout tea or any seed sprout tea really.

I used to think well, with the right soil I'll just do water and that will be awesome... yeah, it works great but I love to tinker so now it's starting to click.... Freshly made PGR's used in the proper manner at the right times has got to have some amazing potential. I really need to step up my enzyme and kelp game in the last half of flower and my alfalfa tricantonal deal in the first half.... including veg.

Alfalfa is good right now.... and we can always grow our own very easy, but as an industry it will be changing soon. Mansanto starts it's takeover of the alfalfa industry as Whole Foods cracks and starts working right along with it.... dirty business. Alfalfa feeds all of our meat so it will be very hard to determine non GMO meat at all.

But, that Aloe is totally organic.... and you can grow your own if you don't mind slicing and dicing before water time.

Ah I love this hobby

 

[dank.frank]

The hormones (organic PGR's) are typically found within your dynamic accumulators, fwiw.



dank.Frank

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

wow i sure started something with my speculation

 

[silver hawaiian]

Happy Valley testers, courtesy of House of Love. Big ups to them!

#6

 

[silver hawaiian]

#4

On both, the flower size is above average, so far!


The #4 is starting to fade/yellow, for sure. The #6 has none of that going on.

They're both in the same dirt, same everything. I'm beginning to think (from the behavior of some other varieties in the room, but not all..) that there's a heat issue in the room.

It's a 600 and a 400 W bare bulb in the center of the room. The ID of the room is 3' x 4'. Not surprisingly, the plants farthest from the bulbs have consistently been the hardiest. The others don't show 'significant' signs of stress (they're not dead or spindly). .. That's the conclusion thus far, but anyway. On with the show!

 

[silver hawaiian]

photo-less update, everyone's favorite!



Nightmare Diesels are coming down this weekend, if not a skosh before. Waiting 'til Saturday would gimme 'til day 85.

As this round went on, I became fairly convinced that (wouldn't have been surprised if) the Aptus rabbit pellets might yield more'n my fancy pants dirt..

Anyway, opened up last night, and I think we're back to neck-and-neck. I gave the Silver styl-ee Nightmare some kelp tea over the weekend, and boy did she thank me for it.

Per usual, I'm a little light on things to replace these Nightmares coming out. I think that works out, actually. Once these Happy Valleys are finished up, I'm going to throw a reflector back on that bulb, pack my bags, and go be a boring, reggalar, plain-old grower again.

Anyway.. As life and time permit, photos and more gabby-gab, ..

 

[wildgrow]

I missed the earlier post - #4 looks so weird.

Whats prompting you to go back to the horizontal?

 

[silver hawaiian]

hey wg!

I may have a few issues here. I'm experiencing a lot of crispy leaves, and some yellowing (not always one and the same here), .. It definitely seems to be more prevalent on the plants nearest the bulb -- that is, the plants in the corners of the room (where the distance to the bulb is the furthest) seem to yellow & crisp up.

(I'm almost wondering if I have two issues - heat, and a relative-yet-not-catastrophic inadequacy of N in the dirt)

But, without question, heat is an issue in there. I've been doing well despite it, and consciously (or sub) ignoring it.. ? Who the heck knows.

I'd say that's the primary factor - HEAT. (Hell, there are days the thermy reads 87, and the unit is on the wall, in the relative shade). That is, if it's 87 where the unit is, I can only imagine what it's gotta be like on some of leaves/buds s'damned close to the light.

I came down yesterday, and one of the main colas on the Aptus ND had taken a flop towards the light (I'll take the responsibility for user-error here, for not tying the fuckers up already), .. And it wasn't resting on the bulb, but looks like it may's well have!

I'm also going to be taking it back to a single 600. On the vert gimmicks, at points I had 2 x 400, 1 600 + 1 400, .. And the truth is that it's more wattage for more herb than I need to produce. I'd gotten down to a lone 600 vert styl-ee, but then these Happy Valleys wouldn't slow down 'til they're 4' +, so I fired up the second bulb, ..

Likely motivating all of these decisions/thoughts is the fact that our little dude will be here in about 60 days. So I'm really, really trying to sort of scale it down (in terms of, err, scale, .. Wattage?), and reduce weak links (heat).

Who knows - maybe I'm just feeling an itch for change since I've got change comin'..

 

[bobblehead]

Hey dude! Its been a minute...

Do you have some time to chill next week? I'm taking my drug test next week, and I'm gonna be ready to blaze! You might actually have more of a tolerance than me now. ha ha...

I have 2 new fool tubes sitting idle still... $60 a piece if you want them. That should help you get your temps under control and stay vert if you like... Or you can down-scale... w/e. Truthfully you shouldn't need more than 1 400w lamp to keep yourself rolling... I mean normally I smoke 2-3oz a month... 10-12 weeks per harvest... 7.5-9oz is what I would smoke in that time. If you can't pull that much with a 400w lamp, you're doing something wrong. I know you don't smoke nearly as much as me.

Of course you could always just sign your plants over to me... he he he...


edit: and I'm very excited for you about the little hawaiian!

 

[silver hawaiian]

Hey dude! Its been a minute...

Do you have some time to chill next week? I'm taking my drug test next week, and I'm gonna be ready to blaze! You might actually have more of a tolerance than me now. ha ha..

You know, I was just mowing the lawn, thinking about that - it's been a minute, and I was lamenting how f'ing busy I've been lately, so's I've not been able to hang.. Sad panda.

I have 2 new fool tubes sitting idle still... $60 a piece if you want them. That should help you get your temps under control and stay vert if you like... Or you can down-scale... w/e. Truthfully you shouldn't need more than 1 400w lamp to keep yourself rolling... I mean normally I smoke 2-3oz a month... 10-12 weeks per harvest... 7.5-9oz is what I would smoke in that time. If you can't pull that much with a 400w lamp, you're doing something wrong. I know you don't smoke nearly as much as me.

Good call on the offer man! I've been kicking around the idea (someone offered them on a kickdown - I love this place ) ..

Not entirely sure actually. When I'd made the "take my ball/reflector and go home," statement, I'd actually forgotten about the cool tubes.

Shit - So now I suppose it's a matter of which is more conducive to a perpetual setup, .. ..also to consider would be the size of plants in each setup, .. Hmm.

Maybe I oughtta just keep it vert styl-ee with a lone cool tube.. ?!

Decisions, decisions..

..back to the quantity deal. I'm with you - I could squeak by with a 400, .. Since I have the 600, I'd prefer to rock that (flowers noticeably more dense, larger vs the 400), ..

I'm probably close to 2 oz/month. (Depends if I'm on a kick smoking a lot of hooters, or just rockin' the pipe.. Also depends if I'm on a relative health-kick and am vaguely conscious about inhaling hot airborne particulate matter into my alveoli)

But, back to that, definitely no need to rock both lamps. (f'ing A, right now it's 1000 W of bare-bulbedness in a 3'x4' space)

To be honest, I'm such a dudley-do-right when it comes to staying within my legal beagle parameters at harvest that it's kind of a burden to have to do something with the overages - oil (i'm lazy), edibles (i'm lazy), move (nothing friendly about this climate), or store off-site (i'm lazy).

.. I think I'm getting at the idea that, aside from general human "Why the fuck wouldn't you?" I don't have a need to yield tremendous amounts - or even more, or as much as, I currently do.

Of course you could always just sign your plants over to me... he he he...

That, my friend, will be coming sooner than either of us wants. Well, me, anyway. But, no shit - need to talk about that at some point..

edit: and I'm very excited for you about the little hawaiian!

(see previous statement) wink (all out) But thanks man - we're stoked here, .. And nervous and pretending to not be nervous and admitting it's okay to be nervous.

bobbles, help me out with the cool tube thing. I seem to recall having seen ones that are 100% tube (no reflector), and some that seem to be ~ 66% tube, 33% reflector, .. ? The ones you've got, do they have the reflector section? Is that removable?

I ask because, to be honest, I might dig a little reflector-y action on it. I run plants on 3 walls in my room - none against the doorway. So, if I didn't have light blasting me in the face when I walked in, that'd be sweet.



Hot damn, now I'm all excited - I'd straight forgotten about the f*ckin' tube offer!

Edit: This post confirms that the silver's been taken into custody by the Fun Police.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Here goes - this is what I'm wondering if is heat (and perhaps a combination of low N in the mix, but .. We'll come to that in a bit)

This is the same photo wildgrow pointed out "what the fuck yo."

The plant in the center of the photo, kind of gnarled out from the bottom-up/inside-out, is the Happy Valley #4.

To its left, and a shorter plant than it, is a Death Star. You'll see both have that lightened, not-so-lush-green look.

On the far right of the picture is another, different, Happy Valley. It's showing none of the signs of the other Happy Valley (or the Deathstar for that matter).

So WTF ic-smarter-than-I-folks: Whaddo I got on my hands here?!

 

[budman678]

Start stockpiling bro. You're gonna love that 1yr cure when you got a little babe. Can't wait for you. Watching my guy on his back playing on a little pack n play thingy.

This nightmares look so chronic

 

[wildgrow]

I ask because, to be honest, I might dig a little reflector-y action on it. I run plants on 3 walls in my room - none against the doorway. So, if I didn't have light blasting me in the face when I walked in, that'd be sweet.

Gotcha. Ive thought of doin the same with my little 400 - basically running 3 walls. 'Spose 1000 is on the side of overkill. Our spaces are real close to the same size and I know 1000 would give me a walk-in-oven.

I wonder if somehow the airflow is pushing the heat in a certain direction.

Think of it like this: 1000 - 400 = diaper $.

Congrats on your lil golden boy, silver!

 

[silver hawaiian]

Gotcha. Ive thought of doin the same with my little 400 - basically running 3 walls. 'Spose 1000 is on the side of overkill. Our spaces are real close to the same size and I know 1000 would give me a walk-in-oven.

I wonder if somehow the airflow is pushing the heat in a certain direction.

Think of it like this: 1000 - 400 = diaper $.

Congrats on your lil golden boy, silver!

wg - very good point, .. If I had a lone, bare 1000 W in there, it'd be ALL bad. Like, I wouldn't be asking "So this is heat, right"

But, if you can manage temps (I probably could if I went back), you could rock two 400s -- two levels of plants, one on the floor and one on shelves, .. ?

I'm in this weird dumb ego place of "I don't need much, relatively, but I'm a human and I'm a man so WANT MAKE LOTS"



And thanks on dudeman! We're excited Diaper money is fairly in check (cloth!) - but I'll tell you what, everything else is .. a lot of.. shit!

..and suddenly it all makes sense.

 

[wildgrow]

Want make lots! Want make lots! : Ugga, ugga!

Yaaa! Two shelved 400s wouldn't be bad a'tall! At least in the cooler months for me. Maybe even scrog the bottom layer. hmm, hmm, hmmmm. Evil man giving me evil plans.

Aieee! ( <--- original Johnny Quest bad guy holler) Cloth - Im grateful for not remembering very early childhood.

 

[Avinash.miles]

Once these Happy Valleys are finished up, I'm going to throw a reflector back on that bulb, pack my bags, and go be a boring, reggalar, plain-old grower again.

another one bites the dust

anyhoo
everything looking great in there silver, as usual.
also, i'd love to hear your overal feelings& review of the aptus products u used (granular soil additive and...?). I've always been curious about that stuff, esp. when not in large ops.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Want make lots! Want make lots! : Ugga, ugga!

Yaaa! Two shelved 400s wouldn't be bad a'tall! At least in the cooler months for me. Maybe even scrog the bottom layer. hmm, hmm, hmmmm. Evil man giving me evil plans.

Aieee! ( <--- original Johnny Quest bad guy holler) Cloth - Im grateful for not remembering very early childhood.

Stupid human ego gets in the way of my moderate needs and compels me to MORE MORE MORE

another one bites the dust

anyhoo
everything looking great in there silver, as usual.
also, i'd love to hear your overal feelings& review of the aptus products u used (granular soil additive and...?). I've always been curious about that stuff, esp. when not in large ops.

Acutally, looks like I might be stickin' around! I'd totally forgotten about a cool tubes conversation I'd had with someone.. Durrrrr

As for the Aptus, I've only used the baseboost - and I have to say, it was impressively easy and productive!

I was even considering loading up the whole room with baseboost-treated dirt, when the baby gets here.. I prefer, probably just in principal, my own personal approach, but the convenience of the baseboost stuff is undeniable.

I deliberately ran only water (well, the same "water" everyone else gets - treated with Ful Power, sm90, and ProTeKt) to the one aptus plant this time around. No ACTs or top dressings or anything.

And it's pretty damned good lookin'

 

[Avinash.miles]

thanks for that info Silver, I'd also love to hear your review of the smoke from aptus vs silver soil plants (since u have plenty of exp.) with the nightmare diesel's flavor and potency....

u got me scheming on a bucket of them pellets....

 

[calientecarlos]

Sup Silv!! Glad you're stickin aroond!! CoolTubes are key when heat is z issue!! I still got 4 justin case...