Living organic soil from start through recycling

[MileHighGuy]

Also, When figuring buying stuff. If I can afford to. I always get more than I need. Cause, why not have extra.... I Know I really don't like not having enough and I much prefer abundance.

 

[Gascanastan]

Smells like a bag o' crabs. Couldn't believe it when I opened it.

I grew up at the beach, but now live in the mountains. Kinda liked opening the bag just for the smell.

It's like sand. Mostly tanish brown with white chunks.

Excellent...that's the effect it should have if you dig it.

 

[QuentinQuark]

Quentin, Morgan compost has a lot of new amendments. The rest is via mail or feed store. We have good sphagnum available.

Bro, I'm not in MI, I'm in Ontario Canada. I got referred to the MI thread on RIU by NickNasty because I was asking some ?'s in another thread.

Can't mail stuff across the border without getting raped on shipping, taxes, duties, and brokerage fees. Deal breaker every time.

 

[OrganicLearner]

Quentin
I would not recommend the wiggle worm castings they are mainly a waste reduction site of paper and stuff in Canada, so if you can try to source some better quality castings

 

[b_all_in]

Ah ha! Thank you. I noticed that PV carries Malibu Dynamic Compost as well as their own brand. Would I be completely blowing it if I bought their brand for way cheaper than Malibu?

 

[QuentinQuark]

ok guys dont beat me up to hard but want to ask if anyone has tried adding all organic builders to coco? if it was covered in the thread already forgive me as i dident want to read the whole 261 pages. im talking about basic shit like blood and bone meal, cotton seed meal and such..

Have a quick read of pages 255-257 of this thread, talks a bit about coco coir. Also do a thread search for "coir", there's not that many results. Maybe try "coco" too.

 

[QuentinQuark]

Quentin
I would not recommend the wiggle worm castings they are mainly a waste reduction site of paper and stuff in Canada, so if you can try to source some better quality castings

I was told Wiggle Worm isn't sprayed/sterilized which I why I was going to use them; can't verify that information though. My other choices here are Cinagro and WayToGrow - any background on either of those?

 

[QuentinQuark]

Smells like a bag o' crabs. Couldn't believe it when I opened it.

I grew up at the beach, but now live in the mountains. Kinda liked opening the bag just for the smell.

It's like sand. Mostly tanish brown with white chunks.

Talked to a manufacturer today - that's the "exorbitant shipping" item I mentioned on an earlier thread - anyways he said he had two products, crab meal which is mostly the meat/offal but has a bit of shell, and crab shell which is the shell only (well I suppose there's bits of meat in there). The crab shell he said looks like corn flakes. And he was confused when I ask for "crab shell meal" because he was like "I got crab meal and crab shell, I don't have crab shell meal" lol. Not that I can get either of them where I am...

 

[MileHighGuy]

Quentin - Are there any Local Worm Guys that you can contact and ask them to ship a batch for you?

Google and Look for people that sell worms for bait or anything besides the bagged stuff... it might save you some money and be really good stuff.

Here is the first google result for worms in ontario Canada.

http://www.wormcomposting.ca/

 

[Gascanastan]

I took the recipe on the first page and roughly added up all the gallons.

It's under 20 gallons when done.

One 2.5 Cubic Foot Package of Peat Moss... if I had to guess, looks like about 20 gallons once it's opened, but I'm not sure man. I really don't think it's an exact science.

Just buy all the stuff that you want in your mix and make sure the consistency is good. I think about it this way....

When looking at the recipe:

About 30% Sphagnum Peat and some coco (I think mine is more like 40% here.)
About 30% Compost and Earth Worm Castings
About 30% Aeration Lava Rock, Perlite etc. (I probably have around 20% Aeration..... Just don't make mud)
About 10% Amendments and other cool shit.

Figure 10 Times the recipe will yeild about 150 Gallons.

That's about 15-20 10 Gallon Smart Pots with room left for Top Dressing in each.

So adjust accordingly.

Bring your shopping list with you when you visit that store and get every single item you can possibly get.... Then ask for a discount.

Once your done and at home. Figure out what else you need to get.... then get it done online with as little shipping as possible.

Check this guy out...he gets it. Good job man..remember the longer you can let it break down the better. Consider the colder temps as well while this breakdown process is happening. Keep the soil reasonably warm.

I mixed up about a cubic yard tonight w/a buddy for his rig using peat,3 types of compost including vermi-compost,topsoil,perlite,pumice,oyster shell,seabird guano..both types,and a couple shovels...Presto~

This will be his base mix to recycle forever. Since he can't afford all of the amendments,he made due with what will work. Just as long as you have the main components.

He can therefor alternatively add all the fancy BS as he re-amends later. Common sense comes in to play more than anything.....as M/High said just don't make mud.

This mix w/out the fancy shit will rock it for the time being...we eyeballed everything. Proly helped being he worked at a nursery his whole life combined w/my dope life.

 

[BlueJayWay]

Quentin
I would not recommend the wiggle worm castings they are mainly a waste reduction site of paper and stuff in Canada, so if you can try to source some better quality castings

Maybe there's a different wiggle worm, the popular one in the states is owned by Unco industries and is highly reputable.

http://www.vermiculture.com/index.html

 

[Durdy]

ok guys dont beat me up to hard but want to ask if anyone has tried adding all organic builders to coco? if it was covered in the thread already forgive me as i dident want to read the whole 261 pages. im talking about basic shit like blood and bone meal, cotton seed meal and such..

Hey joesy, in a couple weeks 2-3, I'm going to be using something close to cootz soil recipe(PG 2 I believe) but instead of peat I'll be using coco coir. Read more about it here........https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=247726

 

[OrganicLearner]

That's the same bag I got once and it didn't seem to great, maybe I am mixing up another brand not sure now because there's a few brands out there that are made from recycling waste management programs

 

[BlueJayWay]

Thank you for your response. Yeah 20gal was just me figuring bigger would be better for this particular application. Maybe I should start smaller. Say I go with 10gal Smartpots instead. Specifically, I guess, how far will a bale of Premier Peat go, including rice hulls, hummus, amendments etc . I am also looking for suggestions as to the compost, and, wormcastings that Peaceful Valley offer. I also would like some direction on the rest of amendments I will need, that are available through Peaceful Valley, since I will be there. Thanks for the ebay tip too.

Ya dude if they have everything on site that is listed on their website then you can get probably everything you need, if they have more than one brand look at them side by side and make an educated guess as to which is best and if maybe the cheaper one is the exact same as the expensive brand.

Most likely malibus is better than their own brand, but check it out and ask what they make it with and cost may come in to play. Take a shopping list and get it all, they have good rice hulls, organic, I friggen ordered some before I found em for nine bucks local

Sphagnum peat
Malibu compost
Rice hulls
Kelp
Crab
Neem
Glacial rock dust
Alfalfa
Oyster shell powder

And/or fish meal, fish bone meal, guanos, gypsum etc etc

 

[ClackamasCootz]

While I've got everyone's attention... I'm thinking of trying some Feliz 300 watt dual spectrum fluorescents http://www.felizlight.com/products-50062-0-item-98439.html?backurl=/

Any comments, experience?

MM

I don't have experience with that specific bulb but I did use one about 4 years ago that was of the same basic design. I used it for rooting cuttings and keeping some plants sort of as 'mother plants' - sort of. It was mounted in a horizontal reflector which wasn't anything fancy from a grow store.

I liked it a lot and I'm sorry that I sold it. For specific purposes they're a good option especially when you consider the lower temperatures vs HID bulbs. I'm not claiming that they're a replacement but for some projects they're definitely worth considering.

HTH

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Tibetan Barley? My local place has some other type... Should I be concerned with the type of Barley?

Nothing to be concerned about. The Tibetan Purple Barley is one of about 75 wild barley cultivars grown in Tibet, Bhutan and China. Barley is the most important crop in Tibet for making flour, a barley wine, beer as well as livestock feed.

The Tibetan Purple is one of the most beautiful grains that I've ever seen:

 

[b_all_in]

BlueJayWay

BlueJayWay

Thank you for the response. Im thinking, for six to eight 10 gallon Smartpots I will need two 3.8 cu ft bales of peat, seven or eight cu ft of compost/vermi compost, and a 50 lb bag of rice hulls. Does that sound about right?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I'm in Ontario Canada

QQ

Gaia Green, Grand Forks, BC

They have the exclusive on the Canadian Glacial Rock Dust from the mines also located in Grand Forks. Their Product List is very impressive and they have retailers that carry their products in 12 provinces including Ontario.

So now you're down to Sphagnum peat moss and humus. The reason that the US versions of Sphagnum out of Canada arrive here unadulterated is that the packers here do a much better job of screwing things up in their soil mixes and blank-soil packs. Quite an achievement.

That's a start for you anyway......

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Thanks MM. I am really interested in how much to buy per 20 gal smartpot. After reading this thread and trying to keep up with discussions, I know I will need: bales of peat, lots of kelp meal, compost, worm castings, some neem meal, oyster shell flour, alfalfa meal, rice hulls, maybe crab/shrimp shell meal? Was basically just hoping someone could take a look at this place I can get to, http://www.groworganic.com/ ,and possibly point me in the right direction. Any comments, tips, direction or counsel is appreciated.

Let's see if this makes sense for you......

#25 SmartPot = basically 3 c.f. or something close

3.8 c.f. bales of Sphagnum Peat are available at DIY stores - look for Alaska Peat, Premier and Lakeland (a pack from Sun Gro Horticulture) and these should run around $15.00 and I'll round this out to 4 c.f. - again close enough

So to each bale you would want to add 2 c.f. of humus and 2 c.f. of rice hulls if that's what you go with. So now you have 8 c.f. of base potting soil.

To each SmartPot you want to use 1 - 1.5 cups of kelp meal (8 oz. to 12 oz) so you can figure what you need for this amendment. You would want to use the same amount on the neem meal. I would not suggest buying the neem from this web site. For less money you can get the organic version from KIS Organics near Seattle even with S&H charges.

Compost will also be less expensive than vermicompost but for that cost savings you have to be diligent in your search. I know what GrowOrganic used to sell for compost and it was out of Teufel Nursery in Forest Grove, Oregon. It also appears in potting soil products from Down-To-Earth ("Keep swingin' boys!") and commercial mixes from OCB (wholesale nursery supplier) and quite frankly it just isn't very good. Even at the base price direct from Teufel which is $6.00 for 2 c.f. compressed bales there isn't much value there.

HTH

Do the names 'Coast of Maine' or 'BuffaLoam' show up in your searching?

CC

 

[bajangreen]

#25 SmartPot = basically 3 c.f. or something close

3.8 c.f. bales of Sphagnum Peat are available at DIY stores - look for Alaska Peat, Premier and Lakeland (a pack from Sun Gro Horticulture) and these should run around $15.00 and I'll round this out to 4 c.f. - again close enough

So to each bale you would want to add 2 c.f. of humus and 2 c.f. of rice hulls if that's what you go with. So now you have 8 c.f. of base potting soil.


CC

Not exactly so the total WEIGHT would add up like that. 4+2+2=8
but the VOLUME will not you will end up with 6.5-7.5 c.f. of base soil.

NOT REALLY A BIGGY THOUGH.