LaOtraDroga
Member
Nice one. It`d be really cool if people could post a photo of offending items.
I will later today Tokesome. I want to show these so it can definitely be determined as the culprit.
Warning new off gassing product!!!!
- Thread starter U.G.U
- Start date
I will later today Tokesome. I want to show these so it can definitely be determined as the culprit.
This is from a source I trust implicitly. His company has considerable purchase power with ngw. He said the first time he called them a few weeks ago they denied their product had any problems blah blah blah. When he called again in the last week, there was more hemming and hawing. Hopefully you are getting through.
Thankfully the pumps may not be an issue, but their lagging on taking this seriously makes me consider whether I'll ever buy one of their pumps/chillers/whatever again.
And this thread has really made me think, what else could there be. Totes and storage containers, trash cans used as reservoirs, supports or whatever used for training, really there are so many thing that could have this or other toxic issues. Heck, the BPA free movement only hit baby products like bottles in the last few years. Plastic related toxins in general don't seem to be closely monitored.
Thankfully the pumps may not be an issue, but their lagging on taking this seriously makes me consider whether I'll ever buy one of their pumps/chillers/whatever again.
And this thread has really made me think, what else could there be. Totes and storage containers, trash cans used as reservoirs, supports or whatever used for training, really there are so many thing that could have this or other toxic issues. Heck, the BPA free movement only hit baby products like bottles in the last few years. Plastic related toxins in general don't seem to be closely monitored.
I have cups with #5 and #6. Hopefully #6 is ok...
This is indeed very important and has serious health implications for us as well as our plants.
I can assure you that off gassing does occur with plastics other than the hydro hut (and other) growtents and this NGW piping.
I`ve suspected off gassing before during the past 18 months doing battle with all the symptoms associated with off gassing, I`m done with suspecting my skills as a gardener, which I`ve done after 20yrs of successful growing.
My problems in the main grow room have improved with huge extraction (that I`ve not needed in similar set ups before) but I know its still been affecting the Cheese and Armageddon, which I`ve now lost both strains, the Grapefruit seem more resilliant.
I`m just noticing my young clones are beginning to suffer in the veg cupboard, early signs of interveinal lightening in my 5 Hog clones, a new strain to me, and some little worrying signs on some Grapefruit clones that were taken 3 weeks into flower. The Armageddon mother which was suffering and not very strong, health wise, even though I`d pulled it from the cupboard and kept her in the bathroom for a while, turned almost varigated with lots of bleaching after being returned to the cupboard for a couple of weeks.
This should be easy to solve. Its a cupboard attached to the main room, and leads to the loft/attic hatch. I have this room with no ventilation and have the loft hatch taped up with the ultra strong aluminium gaffa tape. No air passes from the main room to the cupboard as the extractor ensures negative pressure, and a small amount of air flows from the attic through the cupboard into the main room, though not enough to call it ventilation.
So I have this problem confined to a small area 3x3x6 high. In the room I had a piece of plastic coated washing line hanging the light, I replaced it with chains and nylon twine, I had all my potted clones sat on the plastic tops of lighter gas cans, a by product of making honey oil
, which were placed on a sheet of polythene, to assist in the pot`s ability to drain. I`ve removed the polythene sheet and all the lighter gas can tops, and placed the pots on polythene food bags, I`m assuming they`re safe, the base of the cupboard is old wooden floor boards and too dirty to sit the pots on. Now the only other thing in there is the ballast and 200w envirolight and the extention lead running in there to power it, other than the plastic terracotta plant pots that the clones are in. I checked the wiring between the ballast and the light fitting, and its made of the softest, most supple plastic cable coating I`ve ever come across, very very soft, and it was running very close to the bulb so was getting warm. I`ve re run the cable away from the bulb for now, but tmro I intend on buying some quality 240 cable and rewiring the light so that the ballast and extention are outside the veg chamber, the only additional plastic in the chamber will be the wire running to the bulb. I thought I`d remove some of the sealing tape to the loft hatch, to allow more air to be pulled through the cupboard into the main room.This should hopefully sort my clones out with a better start, then I`ll turn my attention to the main room, a much bigger task.
UGU, thanks again mate, and I hate to put on your time, but do you have a description of how supple/flexible the plastic is that uses the phthalate that causes this problem? I know the grow tent plastic was incredibly supple, how about this NGW tubing. I`m trying to get a sense of what might be most likely to be dangerous, like from between brittle hard plastic to the softest squidgy plastic. I know its a tough one as it will have some variants, but maybe there`d be enough of a description to give me and a growing number of others that will be reading this thread a bit of a clue other than soft or supple. I`m stoned and may be asking the rediculous there, but if that info isn`t already available, I`d be happy to contact some plastics manufacturer`s to try and find out.
Has anyone noticed a higher than usual trich build up on their dwindling harvests. Despite plants from mine producing more yeild, non of it seems to have the resin build up and consequently strength. Its like less bud but more resin, doesn`t seem to make sense to me, I`d expect shite bud.
Cheer`s Toke
Here are a couple of pics of the new Hog genetics with early signs of interveinal lightening that have been in the cloning closet.
I just hope I get this under control straight away and that it hasn`t fooked with their genetics. If left as is, I`d expect the Hogs to be in a much worse state and probably permanently damaged. But I`m taking this seriously until I have no off gassing, Place to start is the cloning cupboard.
The Grapefruit, 3 week into flower clones are showing different signs but I`m pretty sure it`ll be down to the same problem, even though the GF`s have been the most resistant strain I`ve come across so far.
Before
After, sitting on polythene food bags.
Cheers, Toke
I just hope I get this under control straight away and that it hasn`t fooked with their genetics. If left as is, I`d expect the Hogs to be in a much worse state and probably permanently damaged. But I`m taking this seriously until I have no off gassing, Place to start is the cloning cupboard.
The Grapefruit, 3 week into flower clones are showing different signs but I`m pretty sure it`ll be down to the same problem, even though the GF`s have been the most resistant strain I`ve come across so far.
Before
After, sitting on polythene food bags.
Cheers, Toke
S
snoopytime
that "ECO" in the SKU number is probably a coiincidence, it says its made by hydrofarm (which really means FOR hydrofarm), but nonetheless should be the same decent hydrofarm tube. When in doubt, check the screening on the hose. NGW.COM = DEATH, HydroFarm = LIFE! Yayyy!
S
snoopytime
LaOtraDroga
Member
Nice one. It`d be really cool if people could post a photo of offending items.
these are suffering from the gas off. Hefty #5's.
Wow, we have some sick shit between us, man Snoopy, that`s gotta be the worse I`ve seen yet.
Hey LaOrta, can you be sure that its the cups and not some other plastic such as electrical cable? Have you tried removing them from these cups and seeing how they do? Many people have plants in cups doing ok. I was using clear ones, it was good to see the root development, but I changed for all small plant pots, I`d like to assume that the plastic plant pots should be good as they`re made for the horticultural market generally and I`d assume there`d be a lot of come back for companies selling off gassing materials there as its been known about since the 60`s and strong actions taken in the 80`s to remove them from all horticultural applications. I have off gassing in my cloning space, but not sure what is responsible yet, I have no plastic cups there now, so it has to be one of 4 plastic items, the last one, and the biggest suspect I think, is a very soft lighting flex, and will be replaced today.
China say "fuck that" and profit minded companies will buy from them because they`re cheap. The average dope grower isn`t going to say a word as they`re already involved in an illegal activity (in most places).
Wouldn`t it be an idea to have a thread for listing items proven or heavily suspected of off-gassing. It`d be easy to search for items and add them if not on the list already. It could save a lot of headaches and this problem needs as much exposure as possible.
Cheers, Toke
Ps.Can we rule polythene out of the equation. Food bags and polythene sheeting for example? And is it safe to assume that if you buy stuff from a good garden centre, here in the UK (EU ban on the phthalates), that it`d be free from toxic crap?
Hey LaOrta, can you be sure that its the cups and not some other plastic such as electrical cable? Have you tried removing them from these cups and seeing how they do? Many people have plants in cups doing ok. I was using clear ones, it was good to see the root development, but I changed for all small plant pots, I`d like to assume that the plastic plant pots should be good as they`re made for the horticultural market generally and I`d assume there`d be a lot of come back for companies selling off gassing materials there as its been known about since the 60`s and strong actions taken in the 80`s to remove them from all horticultural applications. I have off gassing in my cloning space, but not sure what is responsible yet, I have no plastic cups there now, so it has to be one of 4 plastic items, the last one, and the biggest suspect I think, is a very soft lighting flex, and will be replaced today.
China say "fuck that" and profit minded companies will buy from them because they`re cheap. The average dope grower isn`t going to say a word as they`re already involved in an illegal activity (in most places).
Wouldn`t it be an idea to have a thread for listing items proven or heavily suspected of off-gassing. It`d be easy to search for items and add them if not on the list already. It could save a lot of headaches and this problem needs as much exposure as possible.
Cheers, Toke
Ps.Can we rule polythene out of the equation. Food bags and polythene sheeting for example?
And is it safe to assume that if you buy stuff from a good garden centre, here in the UK (EU ban on the phthalates), that it`d be free from toxic crap?
LaOtraDroga
Member
It is either the cups or the carpeting/panda film. I've had crops in the past at my other spot excel! I used to clone in styrofoam though and go straight to plastic one gallon grow bags. My last spot had hardwood floors, hmmm?
LaOtraDroga
Member
ouch! ditch the hut brah!
This is hydro hut off gassing right here.
dusto2k3
Member
those are from 2007 or 2008 before anyone knew about what was causing it.
Yeah I had similar issues last year with an unbranded tent off of ebay. Luckily I`d already read up on it and was able to diagnose as soon as the signs were showing. I changed the environment and they produced a decent harvest, which goes to show that all the info and help from those of us that have had problems, is a real wealth to the growing, growing community.
LaOrta, did you use the same cups in the other grow space with any plants successfully, or are your mate`s using them with no problems?
Cheers, Toke
LaOrta, did you use the same cups in the other grow space with any plants successfully, or are your mate`s using them with no problems?
Cheers, Toke
LaOtraDroga
Member
I used styrofoam cups and had little to no problems at my other spot. I ran 3k at my other spot and come spring time my pull suffered. It was because I had used caulk on my windows to seal them airtight. That gassed off. I wish I still had pics but it looked awful! Last fall I used plastic cups and my young plants were always suffering. Now I know why.
dusto2k3
Member
so many use plastic cups, this is the first i've heard. I doubt it's plastic cups.Hey LaOrta, so do you still think its the plastic cups? Sorry, I`m a bit confused.
Toke
My thoughts too mate. Got to be careful not to find false culprits. I have so many likely candidates in my room, but cant rule them all as harm ful. If stinks of toxic plastic tho, dont give it a chance.
I think my double glazed window might be off gassing. I have double Panda plastic sheet over it and although the plastic bows out into the room due to the neg pressure, its pretty air tight, but not 100% obviously.
At the level is it likely to cause a problem to the whole room? It does get very warm in the window when its a sunny afternoon, the plastic panda sheeting can feel very warm where the hot air is trapped between it and the blacked out window, but it will only be a very small amount of air movement coming through any gaps, due to much easier air intake elsewhere.
The windows are crap though and let drafts into the house from around the frames. I`d have thought the covering with a couple of layers of Panda would be enough to at least bring it down to harmless levels, but I`m not so sure that`s correct.(?)
As I said, its one of many many suspect items in my grow space.
Cheers, Toke
LaOtraDroga
Member
Hey LaOrta, so do you still think its the plastic cups? Sorry, I`m a bit confused.
Toke
http://blog.edu-cyberpg.com/2008/04/26/toxic plastic numbers 34567.aspx read and decide. My standpoint is would you wanna poison your plants if this can harm you?
#6 PS (polystyrene): used in foam "clam-shell"-type containers, meat and bakery trays, and in its rigid form, clear take-out containers, some plastic cutlery and cups. Polystyrene may leach styrene into food it comes into contact with. A recent study in Environmental Health Perspectives concluded that some styrene compounds leaching from food containers are estrogenic (meaning they can disrupt normal hormonal functioning). Styrene is also considered a possible human carcinogen by the World Health Organization’s International Agency for Research on Cancer.
Number 6 Plastics PS (polystyrene) Found in: Disposable plates and cups, meat trays, egg cartons, carry-out containers Number 6 plastics (polystyrene) are made into soft Styrofoam-style cups as well as rigid foams and hard plastic products, so remember to look for those little numbers in the arrows (don't feel bad if you need a magnifying glass). Avoid using them as much as possible. Why? Number 6 plastics can release potentially toxic breakdown products (including styrene). Get this: particularly when heated! That insulated coffee cup -- the one that 'knows' when to keep your drink warm -- doesn't seem so smart anymore does it?
***Number 6 plastics can release potentially toxic breakdown products
LaOtraDroga
Member
I believe heat is a contributing factor and I ran my room at 82 degrees with c02.Hey LaOrta, so do you still think its the plastic cups? Sorry, I`m a bit confused.
Toke
