Mister D's Vertical Redemption

[FlowerFarmer]

I'm now officially the king of maximum bitchin air flow

Hey now holmes. I'm pretty sure Lazyman hold that title.

But,.. Havnt seen him around in a bit so I suppose you can bask in the glory for a bit.

That valve is sweet. Might have to start me up a christmas list. Let us know how you like it when you get it rigged up.

 

[Mister_D]

Flower - Let me explain a bit better what is going on in that picture. There are two 14" exhausts (one in the ceiling of each flowering room) those are ducted via 14" insulated duct to a 14" duct tee in the ceiling right above the 90 (shown in the picture) The 90 connects to the two 14" max fans which are inline blowing into a massive phresh filter (14x48 2500cfm). Aside from this I have a separte 10" duct that runs from my veg room into the breeding room. This duct has a 10" max fan acting as an intake for the breeding room. What all this accomplishes is massive amounts of are recirculating, allowing me to use the same co2 burner, carbon filter, and A/C for all three rooms. Basicly I'm using my veg room as a lung room for the two flower rooms. If you or anyone else would like, i'll illustrate this better with pictures. I'm not the kind of guy that just throws things together and hopes for the best, my OCD simply wouldn't allow it. Every aspect of this room has been carefully researched, thought about, and planned for. Like lazyman always used to say, overkill is underrated . For example, I use more airflow just to circulate air than most growers with a room this size would use for intake/exhaust. I have an industrial grade seloniod to control gravity fed watering for fucks sake..... Seems i'm getting a bit brash, all work and no sleep....... Going to just bullet point your questions as I don't think I answered all of them.

1. two fans inline? Yes two 14" max fans both blowing into the filter

2. increased duct size? Yes and no. There is a certain limit to the amount of air that can be pushed through a 14" duct (or any size for that matter), more air more resistance. So yes I could increase the duct size and reduce the resistance, but I didn't need to because I hadn't reached a point where the fan was effected enough to justify the change.

3. filter cfm? My filter is rated at 2500 cfm (14 x 48" phresh filter). Can's website claims a 14" max does 1200 cfm when attached to a filter. I believe the test also involved 1 ft of duct on the other end of the fan. Either way I figure they are actually putting out ~800-1000cfm each through the filter. This gives me 500-700 cfm of wiggle room for the 10" max, which I figure after all the duct loss etc gets me pretty close to 2500 cfm moving through the filter.

 

[Mister_D]

View Image


Hey now holmes. I'm pretty sure Lazyman hold that title.

View Image

But,.. Havnt seen him around in a bit so I suppose you can bask in the glory for a bit. View Image



That valve is sweet. Might have to start me up a christmas list. Let us know how you like it when you get it rigged up.

Right you are there. I actually talked to lazy about a month ago, he's up to 5000 cfm IIRC at that spot now . So I guess I'm a silver medalist....... . No worries on the selenoid, i'll be doing a tutorial on how the DTW setup comes together. Lol might get to it before bobble this time

 

[Mister_D]

i bet that thai seeds are going to rock i think my next strains i will add to my collection will be thai and c99

Almost missed ya doc. Very interested in those thai seeds myself, and the hillbilly haze . I'll be doing a pretty extensive haze breeding project in the not so distant future. Always wanted to grow some c99 also. Actually ended up with the pumello 99 as a freebie . From what i've read it's c99 bred towards the orange peel pheno. Never even heard of an orange peel pheno in c99, but it sounds really dank Can't speak for his strains, but reservationlabs is a cool cat, and definitely does it for the love of the plant. I'll be showcasing everything I got from him and others, once I have some free time again. Might even start another thread just for the breeding room. Cross that bridge when I get there though. Let me know if you grab some of his gear, maybe we can crack them at the same time and do a grow off .

 

[Cabron]

You'd better start to think about the corrosive salts in that nutrient solution you're playing with and address building any fluid control
with that fact in mind...


Your lil zone valve is not meant to be used with corrosive fluids but rather pure H20 or H20 with a glycol additive which is an anti corrosive and anti freeze agent .


Ill give your lil taco solenoid a year tops before the pitting cause the stem to hang up and stick open or closed frequently .


Stainless steel or polymer valves only ,,,it's a no brainer


for valves try simple inexpensive lawn irrigation zone valves or If you wanna do it proper then get these its what I used on my
prior aeroponic builds .

Hayward Tru Union Valves

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24448&catid=803
or......
Think Rainbird or Orbit ,,,hell I've built complete hydro systems with full controls all from Orbit Lawn irrigation
equipment from Lowes on the cheap and the shit is still running without a hiccup 4 years later for the people
I built it for ...full poly construction ....Orbit Easy set timer

It's not rocket surgery







I install hydronic heated floors and use Taco controllers and valves, pumps all the time.
They're great but need to be used in the proper environment ,and corrosive nutrients
sure as shit aren't it.

 

[Mister_D]

You'd better start to think about the corrosive salts in that nutrient solution you're playing with and address building any fluid control
with that fact in mind...


Your lil zone valve is not meant to be used with corrosive fluids but rather pure H20 or H20 with a glycol additive which is an anti corrosive and anti freeze agent .


Ill give your lil taco solenoid a year tops before the pitting cause the stem to hang up and stick open or closed frequently .


Stainless steel or polymer valves only ,,,it's a no brainer


for valves try simple inexpensive lawn irrigation zone valves or If you wanna do it proper then get these its what I used on my
prior aeroponic builds .

Hayward Tru Union Valves

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24448&catid=803
or......
Think Rainbird or Orbit ,,,hell I've built complete hydro systems with full controls all from Orbit Lawn irrigation
equipment from Lowes on the cheap and the shit is still running without a hiccup 4 years later for the people
I built it for ...full poly construction ....Orbit Easy set timer

It's not rocket surgery







I install hydronic heated floors and use Taco controllers and valves, pumps all the time.
They're great but need to be used in the proper environment ,and corrosive nutrients
sure as shit aren't it.

I was under the impression the taco valves had polymer insides? Also am I reading right, that hayward selenoid runs off 120V?

 

[bobblehead]

Lol... School is out in another month. I'm gonna have some free time on my hands.

 

[Cabron]

The sentry series and the geothermal do indeed have anti corrosive internals ,but the 570 hasn't as far as I have experienced ..

Look inside it should be all brass from inlet to outlet ..
The stem is the achilles heel corroding and pitting eventually
and sticking .

poly valves made for corrosive fluids are best D

Yeah they are indeed 120 v actuated ,,, the juice is fully encapsulated and separate from the valve body ,no worry of
an type of transfer or short to the liquids .


I never used them for anybody's builds but my own and use the low voltage lawn irrigation system solenoids for clients .


I see risk of electrocution on these forums that exceed any solenoid failure by a thousand fold every day here in pics of people's grows with ballasts on the floor by reservoirs ,cords ,timers etc...



ya can't fix stupid ...



lookin good D keep up the good work ..

 

[Mister_D]

Cabron - EPDM or FPM seals. Any preference? After some quick browsing it seems FPM might have a slight advantage for our purposes. What are your thoughts here?

 

[Cabron]

Ya made me go dig through some of my inventory ..
Yeah I still have 4 of those ..
2 Fpm's or Fluorine aka Viton seals
1 CPVC
1 EPDM also known as Ethylene Propene

The EPDM and Viton are neck in neck same quality with regards to what
we play with and that's mildly oxidative solutions ,salts etc..

my EPDM is in the shop not gonna go dig that out for the pic ,but yeah
I've played with all of them and no problems ,last forever ...

rig em up to an Art DNE timer and ya have some serious control ..
Love that set up for a top feed hydro table arrangement ..
I feed the manifold to all the tables with one single Hayward
1" in front of a rusco spin down micron filter ,a well Mate fiberglass
pressure tank and a shallow well pump drawing from a 120 gallon
livestock tank Rubbermaid...
running about 55 psi .....let's just say every fackinig drip ring gets
even pressure,,,I don't play games with circulating pumps in my hydro applications....

Just don't try and use the Haywards to control true aeroponic misters at 60 psi and above ....Jesus they never close no matter what ya do
to remedy it ...I had engineers at Hayward on the phone for hours baffled
a few years ago ,,,none of us could ever fix that lil problem ..

look in the pic there's a lil Irrigation direct solenoid for 13 bucks ...
lil shits work forever for what you're doing ...


The Haywards are facking expensive ..
I dug through boxes of Danner mag drive pumps, Rusco spin down
filters, timers , and the like and couldn't believe the money I have spent
over the years playing with creating systems ....Jesus I have thousands
in hardware ...lol....good thing I'm using it now making systems for customers .



Hey ...either is good bro ,,,,,take care ,,,don't stop creating ...

 

[bobblehead]

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Thanks for sharing.

This is just another of bobbleheads flat out lies.

 

[bobblehead]

Now is a good time for me to share... And tell D about how the website is wrong. Hopefully señor cabron can tell me what he/she/it thinks about these solenoids...

http://www.irrigationdirect.com/cat...519/s/rain-drip-r673-replacement/category/31/

http://www.irrigationdirect.com/med...ation-direct/DD-DWT673_Instruction_Manual.pdf

Technical Data.
Operating Voltage: DC 3v. (use high quality alkaline battery)
Static Current: less than or equal to 18uA
Battery life: 1 season (6 months) normal use.
Time error: +0.25 second per day
Operating temperature 41F to 140F (5°C to 60°C)
Water pressure: 0.75 psi to 116 psi (0.05 bar to 0.8 bar)
Key Lock: Simple to set and unset. Prevents unauthorised/accidental program changes.

 

[Mister_D]

Ya made me go dig through some of my inventory ..
Yeah I still have 4 of those ..
2 Fpm's or Fluorine aka Viton seals
1 CPVC
1 EPDM also known as Ethylene Propene

The EPDM and Viton are neck in neck same quality with regards to what
we play with and that's mildly oxidative solutions ,salts etc..

my EPDM is in the shop not gonna go dig that out for the pic ,but yeah
I've played with all of them and no problems ,last forever ...

rig em up to an Art DNE timer and ya have some serious control ..
Love that set up for a top feed hydro table arrangement ..
I feed the manifold to all the tables with one single Hayward
1" in front of a rusco spin down micron filter ,a well Mate fiberglass
pressure tank and a shallow well pump drawing from a 120 gallon
livestock tank Rubbermaid...
running about 55 psi .....let's just say every fackinig drip ring gets
even pressure,,,I don't play games with circulating pumps in my hydro applications....

Just don't try and use the Haywards to control true aeroponic misters at 60 psi and above ....Jesus they never close no matter what ya do
to remedy it ...I had engineers at Hayward on the phone for hours baffled
a few years ago ,,,none of us could ever fix that lil problem ..

look in the pic there's a lil Irrigation direct solenoid for 13 bucks ...
lil shits work forever for what you're doing ...


The Haywards are facking expensive ..
I dug through boxes of Danner mag drive pumps, Rusco spin down
filters, timers , and the like and couldn't believe the money I have spent
over the years playing with creating systems ....Jesus I have thousands
in hardware ...lol....good thing I'm using it now making systems for customers .



Hey ...either is good bro ,,,,,take care ,,,don't stop creating ...

for the input. I do have one concern with that cheap unit, it's minimum operating pressure is 10 psi. i'm doing elevated gravity feed, and if my calculations are correct i'm not getting anywhere near 10 psi from my setup. Looks like i'll be going with the hayward.........

Now is a good time for me to share... And tell D about how the website is wrong. Hopefully señor cabron can tell me what he/she/it thinks about these solenoids...

http://www.irrigationdirect.com/cat...519/s/rain-drip-r673-replacement/category/31/

View Image

http://www.irrigationdirect.com/med...ation-direct/DD-DWT673_Instruction_Manual.pdf

Technical Data.
Operating Voltage: DC 3v. (use high quality alkaline battery)
Static Current: less than or equal to 18uA
Battery life: 1 season (6 months) normal use.
Time error: +0.25 second per day
Operating temperature 41F to 140F (5°C to 60°C)
Water pressure: 0.75 psi to 116 psi (0.05 bar to 0.8 bar)
Key Lock: Simple to set and unset. Prevents unauthorised/accidental program changes.

Well I doubt batteries are going to last 6 months in our application, but you might get a full cycle out of a set..... maybe. Minimum operating pressure says 10 psi for that solenoid if you click on the details tab. Odd it says .75 psi in the manual Hmmmmmm. Still leaning towards the hayward....... though the price is making my asshole clench .

 

[Cabron]

I personally would never buy an integrated timer /solenoid combo

especially one that's run off two aa batteries
has a HPT on the outlet ,that's not practical
is very limited in regards to timer start sequences ,only 8



it's just not applicable to the type of builds I do
It's far too tinker toy ...


sorry that gets tossed into the junk category for me ..



D can you show in a pic or two what exactly you are trying to
accomplish with some details in mind ???


I'd like to help you do it right the first time with minimal expense.

 

[MrAwder]

I'm using the Drip Pro timer/solenoid from irrigation direct in my setup. I grabbed 4 rechargeable AAA's and a charger just for convenience. It is working fine with my res setup, good flow to 8 1/4" T fittings. Been running 9 days so far.

I went with it for price and ease-of-build. Was easy to go from the solenoid to 1/2" drip line and regular drip fittings from there.

It is lacking when it comes to timer settings. 8 on/off sequences and only adjustable to 1 min increments. With the open 1/4" fittings 1 min feed is just about perfect for ~3gal of coco. 2 min would cause too much runoff I think. However, if you go with drip emitters instead then there is greatly reduced flow which allows for multiple minute feeds. In my veg tent I am using emitters and have 2 5 minute feeds per day. So I think depending on how build the manifold you can get pretty good control of saturation still.

All that said I was aiming for a minimal budget, minimal effort setup that keeps my plants watered. I don't think this would work well or at all in high-pressure more finely controlled "fast-hydro" applications.

 

[bobblehead]

I'm using the Drip Pro timer/solenoid from irrigation direct in my setup. I grabbed 4 rechargeable AAA's and a charger just for convenience. It is working fine with my res setup, good flow to 8 1/4" T fittings. Been running 9 days so far.

I went with it for price and ease-of-build. Was easy to go from the solenoid to 1/2" drip line and regular drip fittings from there.

It is lacking when it comes to timer settings. 8 on/off sequences and only adjustable to 1 min increments. With the open 1/4" fittings 1 min feed is just about perfect for ~3gal of coco. 2 min would cause too much runoff I think. However, if you go with drip emitters instead then there is greatly reduced flow which allows for multiple minute feeds. In my veg tent I am using emitters and have 2 5 minute feeds per day. So I think depending on how build the manifold you can get pretty good control of saturation still.

All that said I was aiming for a minimal budget, minimal effort setup that keeps my plants watered. I don't think this would work well or at all in high-pressure more finely controlled "fast-hydro" applications.

exactly the type I've review I was looking for Mr. Awder... b/c I just ordered 6.

I plan on using rechargeable batteries, and changing them every 3 months. That solenoid is specifically for low-pressure applications. I don't see 8 different settings as being limited... I'm not going to water more often than every 2hs during lights on. As for the timer/solenoid combo, I would think that the less distance between the two, the more reliable it should be. I think that for my application, it should work well.

Thanks for the input cabron... If these things don't work out, I'll be using an orbit kit. Gonna be watching what you and D come up with, but my build is already in progress...

 

[Mister_D]

Impossible to get a picture of the whole thing, but these pics show the important parts.

This is the elevated res (holds ~25 gal.), sits on a shelf approx. 6ft off the ground. Top of the water level in the res is maintained at ~7.8 ft. The green line runs over to the racks and forms a manifold. The other green line running up to the top of the res is just an air release. Plan is to install a solenoid right before the air release. When the solenoid is opened the manifold will fill with water, solenoid closes, and the air release allows all of the water to drain out through the drip lines without creating a vacuum.

This picture shows how the manifold is setup. Basicly it's a loop that runs around the top shelf of the racks with arms that run down between each rack. New drip lines will be run from these arms to each plant (little brown lines in the picture were connected to blumats, these will be replaced with standard 1/4" drip line). You can kind of see the elevated res in the upper right.

 

[MrAwder]

When the solenoid is opened the manifold will fill with water, solenoid closes, and the air release allows all of the water to drain out through the drip lines without creating a vacuum.

I did not consider this. My air release is before my solenoid so I guess once it closes everything left in the manifold just stays filled once the pressure decreases enough. I like your solution better but mine seems to be working so far.

But now as I'm sitting here thinking about it... wont the air release just allow air back into the lines once the solenoid closes? This prevents a vacuum, but will all that air be purged back out of the air release once the solenoid opens or will some still be trapped in the lines? Will it even matter with drippers as opposed to blumats?

 

[bobblehead]

it don't matter none... the solenoid closes and stops draining or siphoning of the reservoir...