Tea critisism please??

[OrganicOzarks]

USDA NOP (National Organic Program) - Seaweed Extracts
NOP Rule: 205.601(j)(1)



Verbatim

Acadian Seaplants, Ltd. products are listed & registered under this rule as is Maxicrop.

So I talked with my supplier this morning for an hour. Always so much info from him. They do indeed manufacture this themselves. They use their own process separate from the companies that you have listed.

They could not divulge proprietary info, but we did go over chemical analysis, and I asked 20 questions about the process, and the testing results form said process.

I feel very comfortable using their product still, and would still recommend it over kelp meal.

Although I 100% see why you would bring up what you brought up, and if there is any question whatsoever of safety it would be non-existent by using kelp meal.

Again I really appreciate you bringing this to my attention as I have learned a lot today.

 

[Toes.]

From what I have seen I am thinking the alfalfa is a bacterial food. Thus growing more bacteria in your brew.

I've noticed my alfalfa-based aerated water extracts (teas/leachate.. whatever) smell more pungent after 48 hours than anything similar that is guano based, or even compost based.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

So I talked with my supplier this morning for an hour. Always so much info from him. They do indeed manufacture this themselves. They use their own process separate from the companies that you have listed.

They could not divulge proprietary info, but we did go over chemical analysis, and I asked 20 questions about the process, and the testing results form said process.

I feel very comfortable using their product still, and would still recommend it over kelp meal.

I can see why you would given your comments about product registration. The term 'proprietary' is a 'bovine excrement' trigger. There are no 'proprietary' methods. This is a term used by grow store 'nute' companies to cover up the fact that they're selling you 9&%+ water. H2O. Aqua.

All products must have at least 3 (three) MSDS documents - one each with USDA, FDA and EPA and all of these are different once the ingredients are listed, i.e. the EPA's regulations are specific to 'a set of standards' and USDA (i.e. you know - food stuff?) have their own 'set of standards'

I wouldn't want to divulge the name of the manufacturer either - pulling the covers off is something that anyone can do if they take the 3 or 4 minutes that's involved.

Here's how it works as you can see here and this was updated on July 20, 2012

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Is your product from Eco-Nutrients by any chance?

 

[Microbeman]

On the kelp meal, I use plain ordinary dried powdered/shredded kelp which comes in a 50 pound bag from the livestock store. ($55 to $80 range)

On alfalfa meal I use the same, a bag from the feed store. It brings in some protozoa and bacterial spores. It is a foodstock for bacteria/archaea and fungi.

Ozark can you tell me how you evaluate that the microbes present in the stored extract are beneficial and what types are you seeing?

Now I did leave out that you can have aerobic bacteria suspended in a dormant state through making a compost extract. Their shelf life is longer than most would think.

I looked at some through the scope that were 3-4 months old, and they were still chalked full of good critters.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

Is your product from Eco-Nutrients by any chance?

It's not them.

I am not worried about anyone digging up dirt on these products. I just talked with the owner for an hour this morning, and feel fine about the products.

Why are you so abrasive, and wanting to prove yourself so much? It seems weird. I have already said that I agree with you to a point.

You need to pick up the pipe, and chill out.

I have read this Oregon List before, and read a bit about the rules up there. I know they are on top of labeling things correctly.

All of this shit has been great to talk about, but we have all hijacked this guys thread, and gotten off of track.

I would be more than happy to continue all of this in a thread of it's own. there has been some great dialogue here.

We should continue it in it's own thread.

Maybe we can call it:

ClackamasCootz has something to prove even though no one is arguing with him.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

On the kelp meal, I use plain ordinary dried powdered/shredded kelp which comes in a 50 pound bag from the livestock store. ($55 to $80 range)

On alfalfa meal I use the same, a bag from the feed store. It brings in some protozoa and bacterial spores. It is a foodstock for bacteria/archaea and fungi.

Ozark can you tell me how you evaluate that the microbes present in the stored extract are beneficial and what types are you seeing?

I am assuming based form a soilfoodweb test that they are beneficial. The results from them were very good. However I take what they say with a grain of salt.

What I saw through the scope was a lot of bacteria, a few protozoa, and a possibly a nematode.

Now my samples of extract have been outside in summer temps so it will be different than the one sent to the lab.

That one was stored in about 70 degrees where as mine got over 100 sometimes.

The fact that after so long stored like shit there was anything in there I was shocked.

I plan on getting another sample, and storing it inside at 72, and then look and see what we get though the scope.

Extract machines are great except for the price tag.

 

[Toes.]

FWIW,

The MSDS on all four Sunleaves guano products state the guano is "biologically active".

Section VI - Health Hazard Data

Health Hazards (Acute and Chronic)

Acute: Choking due to inhalation of fine dust, Possible Irritation if open wound is exposed (Biologically active material)

Chronic: Potential for exposure to Spores of Histoplasma capsulatum if fine dust is inhaled, causing potential for chronic lung Infection Histoplasmosis

http://sunleaves.com/senddoc.asp?id={52BDDCC4-2479-437C-AFF8-8215F5BE884C}

 

[ClackamasCootz]

On the kelp meal, I use plain ordinary dried powdered/shredded kelp which comes in a 50 pound bag from the livestock store. ($55 to $80 range)

MM

That is kelp meal.

Powdered seaweed extract is pure black and you can put it on a table and in a month the pile of seaweed extract is still there - intact. It is biologically dead. Kelp meal is not biologically dead. It's simply dried kelp fronds that are sliced & diced and then screened to a specific size, bagged and shipped.

Thanks for explaining that what you are using is kelp meal - not powdered seaweed extract.

CC

 

[dank.frank]

CC is only trying to help the OP use the best product in his tea. OrganicO - You put him in a position to prove why he was suggesting kelp meal over a product you refuse to name yet still suggest the OP use comparable products that are extracted using chemicals. If you want to help the OP, state a reason aside from "my future products will use this mystery extract"...

Kelp meal - in the raw form, is better. Unless you find micronized non-soluable food grade kelp meal - I find the smaller particle size (which I have specially prepared) to be beneficial in regards to better dispersement throughout the medium...the fact it is still a raw product keeps the benefits of biological activity in play.


dank.Frank

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Maybe we can call it:

ClackamasCootz has something to prove even though no one is arguing with him.

One that would be more apt is:

OrganicOzarks doesn't know anything about the products that he shills - why is that?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

So i would like to list my recipe and see what constructive critisism I can get. So I am going off basic knowledge, nothing scientific and it sounded like a good recipe. It has not hurt any of my plants at all, but I have only fed to one strain so far. Here ya go:

In a 5 gal bucket:

-2.5 gal water
-2tsp Mexican bat guano
-2tsp peruvian bat guano
-2tsp seabird guano
-1/2cup comfrey meal
-1/2 cup alfalfa
-2tsp blackstrap molasses

I have an air pump for a 60 gallon aquarium hooked up to 2 air stones, both 6". The water is from the tap set out at least 24hrs and PH balanced to about 6.0-6.2

I "brew" for about 2 days, strain through cheesecloth. Mix 2.5 gals of tea to 2.5 gals clean water, and feed. The only strain i used it on was Blueberry Funk, a sativa dominant hybrid. It turned out absolutely amazing. The issue though is I have not grown that strain without the tea, so..... ya haha.

So, what do you guys think about the tea? Should I consider adding more ingredients? Apprciate the help!

SONNN

SONNN

Here's one that I do and you can incorporate as you see fit:

5 gallons of water

1 cup organic Alfalfa meal
1/4 cup Kelp meal

Bubble to bounce the material around for a day or so. Strain & Drain and apply to the soil. I have never seen a plant that did not respond to this simple tea.

With this you have live plant material.

I grow Comfrey in massive amounts for our vegetable garden and some in the MMJ garden. Since you have Comfrey pellets then I would split the cup of Alfalfa and use 1/2 cup of each, i.e. same volume but now you have diversity. Comfrey, Alfalfa & Kelp are probably the 3 best nutrient accumulators in the plant world that are easily available.

Blow off the guanos and do something else with them.

I apply this or a similar each week. You could dilute this 50-50 with water and apply as a foliar application. If you do spray you want to spray as late in the day or the end of the veg cycle if indoors. The reason for that is that the compounds in the plant materials are simple hydrocarbon chains (just like THC) which means that they will degrade quickly under bright light. To get the maximum benefit this is how to use this tea.

I would also suggest adding liquid Silica. Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt has the best price for a liquid product. A gallon is obviously the best price but you may not need that amount but at any rate, a gallon is around $34.00 and this gives you 768 teaspoons.

You want to add 1/2 tsp. to each gallon of water. 1 gallon will make 1,536 gallons.

How's that for cheap?

HTH

CC

 

[ixnay007]

The reason I stay away from SHIT lol lol.. is there is really ZERO reason for it ontop of which I think it's been proven more then once that it's NOT NEEDED lol.. I don't get it with ppl why they insist on putting this SHIT in thier bud and then they argue about it lol..Makes me laugh actually,, I have had the best bud I have ever had and had no SHIT ferts in it whatsoever.. There is no such thing as good SHIT when it comes to fertilizers we need to get used to that one.. We need to look for a healthier source headband 707

If you look at most people here, including MM and CC, they're both using feces in their mixtures, in compost and fed to their worms, usually ruminant excrement. Saying that there's no benefit in poop is silly, it's a big part of the cycle of nature, and it definitely has benefits.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

One that would be more apt is:

OrganicOzarks doesn't know anything about the products that he shills - why is that?

I shill things.
I am a shiller.
I practice the act of shilling.
Shiller I am.

Shiller till death Nephew!!!!

I must now stop shillin as I have been called out as a shiller.

Fuck what to do now? Everything I have worked for the past few years is now all just shillerism.

Oh well. Back to the drawing board I guess.

Wait maybe I can convert to Judaism, and then just call you antisemitic. Then I won't have to go back to the drawing board.
That sounds much easier. then I can continue shilling with the protection of god.

Now that sounds like a plan.

Christmas is going to suck this year.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

FWIW,

The MSDS on all four Sunleaves guano products state the guano is "biologically active".

http://sunleaves.com/senddoc.asp?id={52BDDCC4-2479-437C-AFF8-8215F5BE884C}

I just looked at a sample of guano under the scope, and there was absolutely nothing that looked like it was alive. It was all just organic matter.

Again I thought(which does not mean it is a fact) they sterilized the guano.

I don't know how else there would be no sort of biological life in it.

Either my scope is broke, or copy and pasting is not getting the full story.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

CC is only trying to help the OP use the best product in his tea. OrganicO - You put him in a position to prove why he was suggesting kelp meal over a product you refuse to name yet still suggest the OP use comparable products that are extracted using chemicals. If you want to help the OP, state a reason aside from "my future products will use this mystery extract"...

Kelp meal - in the raw form, is better. Unless you find micronized non-soluable food grade kelp meal - I find the smaller particle size (which I have specially prepared) to be beneficial in regards to better dispersement throughout the medium...the fact it is still a raw product keeps the benefits of biological activity in play.


dank.Frank

I agree with you.

I use this mystery extract because compared with kelp meal under my scope I prefer the results with the extract.

Now unless you have a scope all you can do is copy and paste.

I already said that if you are worried that kelp meal would alleviate that worry.

However I am not worried, and I can look at the results through a scope.

Again I prefer the results that I get from the extract than with kelp meal.


They both will work. I have already agreed to this. However let me beat the dead horse once more, Under my scope I prefer the end result with the extract.

That would be a bit of science thrown in with a bit of personal choice.

Ain't America grand!

There are a million ways to skin a cat, and they are all correct.

 

[headband 707]

I believe this is where personal choice plays a role. There is indeed good shit. I am going to start raising chickens for this very reason. so that I have good organic shit.

The best part of this site is all of the different angles people use to get similar results. It really just comes down to what process you are happy with.

I believe that you can not get the same taste, and odor using minerals. Shit as you say makes the true flavors come through.

Again this is a believe, and an opinion. No fact in it whatsoever. The same as saying shit is not necessary is an opinion.

It all depends on what you want your end result to be, and how you feel the best way to get to that result.

I do love this site though, and all of the different ideas that come with it. I have learned so much over the years.

LOL yeah I used to use SHIT until it made me kinda sick and I looked into it and thought WHY?? LOL.. I can get most of this from other ferts so why am I doing this ?
Now I'm even questioning Kelp and all things coming from the sea
because of Fukushima of-course,, now that they are finding radiation in the Salmon I'm not to sure I want this in my bud LOL.. Stay safe headband 707

 

[OrganicOzarks]

LOL yeah I used to use SHIT until it made me kinda sick and I looked into it and thought WHY?? LOL.. I can get most of this from other ferts so why am I doing this ?
Now I'm even questioning Kelp and all things coming from the sea
because of Fukushima of-course,, now that they are finding radiation in the Salmon I'm not to sure I want this in my bud LOL.. Stay safe headband 707

Maybe you are allergic to shit?

People have been growing with shit for 1000's of years. Seems weird to me that you have found a better way.

So do you use compost? Because that is shit as well. Soil Microbe shit.

If you use non of these things then you will have no soil biology. Unless you buy the soil biology in a bottle at the grow store.

I think this explains it best.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should be doing it.

Shit I am going to stop growing with organics and just do chemical hydro. No shit in it.

I think you lost me when you thought you were better than others because you don't use shit.

Every single human is equal to every other single human. Not one person is better than another.

What is right for one may not be right for another.

Opinions are nothing but fleeting words in the wind. They mean absolutely nothing except to the person that holds them.

They also change over time as we experience life, love, and loss.

How exactly do you grow you herb? I am intrigued now. What products do you use? Give is the run down on how it should be done.

 

[Scrappy4]

I shill things.
I am a shiller.
I practice the act of shilling.
Shiller I am.

Shiller till death Nephew!!!!

I must now stop shillin as I have been called out as a shiller.

Fuck what to do now? Everything I have worked for the past few years is now all just shillerism.

Oh well. Back to the drawing board I guess.

Wait maybe I can convert to Judaism, and then just call you antisemitic. Then I won't have to go back to the drawing board.
That sounds much easier. then I can continue shilling with the protection of god.

Now that sounds like a plan.

Christmas is going to suck this year.

Acknowledging that you have a problem is the first step.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

What's funny is my plan all along was to get to 1000 posts.

Ha,ha,ha,ha