Can you identify issues? Many pics.

[MrGreenWeed]

All plants in FFOF with 30% perlite, 10% castings and 1-2 TBS dolo lime per gal of soil mix. Pots are all 4 gallon. Plants have been flowering for about 6-12 days since first white pistils, about 20 days from 12/12.

Pics 1-3 are of full sativa. Fed starting last week or 2 of veg with FF lineup. Just using Open Seasame soluble so far. Half to normal strength nutes every other watering.
Not much def or burn issues below, but a lot of clawing and canoeing down as seen in pics.

Pics 4 and 5 are just the early tops of the two indicas that are being fed EJ at light to medium strength every watering. Pics 6 and 7 are lower and mid level fans on one of those indicas with what looks like to me over-nuting but I'm unsure as it doesn't have all the characteristics of nute burn.

Pics 8 and 9 are lower fans on a indica dominant plant being fed FF.

Pic 10 is just a shot of a tiny section of my other sativa about 80% dominant. Being the plant is tied down everywhere because it is so tall and has so many branches, there are about 20 branches like the two in the last pic and 20 more smaller ones that are all high and exposed to light very well. I have never grown sativas before, it is normal for some strains to start flowering so slow and have such skinny branches? This one is Strawberry Blue. On this plant the lower growth has many leaf tips that curl up and back into the leaf like an elf boot.

Sorry for bad pics, I cannot turn off HPS lights and my camera sucks.

I also began humic acid about week 4, fed every other watering. Plants have also had 3-4 doses of calmagplus from mid veg to a few weeks ago. I also plan to begin molasses as usual in week 5 or 6 until week before flush. Just started using pro-tekt about 2 fed ago.

Feel stupid being I have years of growing under my belt in the past, but I haven't grown in years steady and I'm using all new soil and nutes with a different type of grow room and I had these issues the last grow and it didn't affect yield greatly but I want to nip this in the butt now.

Any ideas or remarks would be appreciated.

 

[MrGreenWeed]

 

[Hammerhead]

looks like N toxicity with lock out. Here is a example. Anytime I have these problems I know its a nutrient or insect issue . Once I rule out insects I flush let the soil dry well and start back up with lighter feedings around 1.8ec/800ppm and I never go over 1200ppm/2.2ec. Using .5 conversion meters

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

first ones deff over nitrogen... looks like they are all heavy on the nutes... back off them and give water till the tell you you should feed them...

You should stick with ffof or nutes... combining them is just asking for problems.

 

[MrGreenWeed]

Thanks Hammer. It's definitely not insects and I have been doing just water with pro-tekt the last few waterings and plan to at least a few more.

 

[MrGreenWeed]

Hey Poopy, have seen and agreed with many comments I've seen you make around the site.

Can you please explain more on the FFOF or nutes? I though FFOF ran out of viable nutes within 30-60 days. I start in 5x5x5 square pots(germinated seed goes in soil) and I transplant into same mix at about day 18 into final 4 gallon pots. I veg for at least 50 days so I wouldn't think there are much nutes left by week 1 and 2 of flower. Should I not be feeding as early with FFOF? I can't see not feeding at all the entire grow. Thanks.

 

[Hammerhead]

Open Sesame 5-45-19. I would be using this as a bud booster only. Get some base nutrients like PBP 1-4-5 or any other one with NPK values that are low like PBP..

I use FFOF/FFLW/FFHF all mixed together as my medium. It will only last 30 days with its pre charge.

 

[MrGreenWeed]

Open Sesame 5-45-19. I would be using this as a bud booster only. Get some base nutrients like PBP 1-4-5 or any other one with NPK values that are low like PBP..

I use FFOF/FFLW/FFHF all mixed together as my medium. It will only last 30 days with its pre charge.

I think you misunderstood. Open Sesame is the only Fox Farm "soluble" I'm using and I have used it three of the four times as per schedule at half strength. I have also been feeding the FoxFarm plants big and Tiger bloom, and for the Earth Juice plants I've been feeding them that lineup.

Not just using Open Sesame. OS is for early flower, then Beastie Bloom is for mid flower then Cha Ching for late.

Why all three? I have both Ocean Forest and Light Warrior.

 

[Hammerhead]

No I did not misunderstand. OS is a bud booster and should only be used for that. I use Canna PK13/14 for the same thing. You have to much stuff going on there. You dont need all of that. From your list I would only be using EJ with OS or TB not both..

I use PBP grow/bloom when im using the bloom I add the canna pk 13/14 to it with a ec of 2 and a PH of 6.5+-.3

 

[Neo 420]

You have to much stuff going on there. You dont need all of that.

 

[rootcap]

i dont know why, but it looks for me like a start of root rot....

 

[MrGreenWeed]

No I did not misunderstand. OS is a bud booster and should only be used for that. I use Canna PK13/14 for the same thing. You have to much stuff going on there. You dont need all of that. From your list I would only be using EJ with OS or TB not both..

I use PBP grow/bloom when im using the bloom I add the canna pk 13/14 to it with a ec of 2 and a PH of 6.5+-.3

OS is used early in flower to promote stocky growth and bring the plant into flower, it's not a true bud booster. On the FF feed schedule it begins in last week of veg. I'm done with it this grow and won't start up Beastie until issues are resolved.

I would never use either OS or tiger bloom with EJ as EJ is organic and OS and tiger are not.
The EJ plants are pure EJ lineup, the FoxFarm plants are pure FoxFarm lineup. The only extras going on in this grow is humic acid which I am stopping and molasses later in flower. The calmagplus organic and pro-tekt are basics that are doing zero harm to soil or plant.

If you are referring your "You have to much stuff going on there" to the three FF solubles; OS, BB and CC. Those are part of the basic/advanced lineup.

I used this exact lineup minus the separate EJ lineup last round and got half pound plants. That's why I now believe it's not that I'm using so many things but that I'm using too much of one. I'm guessing tiger for FF plants and Big Bloom on the EJ side.

I'm now just watering with pro-tekt until I see an improvement then I will go lighter on future nutes.

Thanks.

 

[MrGreenWeed]

i dont know why, but it looks for me like a start of root rot....

Not too worried about that. Clean water, clean soil, warm temps, great wet/dry cycle, large enough containers. I never want to see root rot.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

Hey Poopy, have seen and agreed with many comments I've seen you make around the site.

Can you please explain more on the FFOF or nutes? I though FFOF ran out of viable nutes within 30-60 days. I start in 5x5x5 square pots(germinated seed goes in soil) and I transplant into same mix at about day 18 into final 4 gallon pots. I veg for at least 50 days so I wouldn't think there are much nutes left by week 1 and 2 of flower. Should I not be feeding as early with FFOF? I can't see not feeding at all the entire grow. Thanks.

If your going to use FFOF thats all u need to use unless u cut it with coco or promix... maybe lime is all uneed to add... to refeed you up pot it back into a bigger pot of FFOF. When u start adding chem or organic ferts to stuff that already has nutes it can cause problems.


To avoid these problems pick one or the other... lot easier to help.

I personally dont care for amended mixes but thats a personal preference as once u add u cannot take away. i have done tea and done chems im in chems now but about to go back to a mixture of teas and base nutes. Personal preference as ive done great with both.

use promix and feeds nutes or use FFOF and uppot for nutes... simple and e z.

 

[SeaMaiden]

I agree with Hammerhead, it appears as though you're using many different products.

I think you misunderstood. Open Sesame is the only Fox Farm "soluble" I'm using and I have used it three of the four times as per schedule at half strength. I have also been feeding the FoxFarm plants big and Tiger bloom, and for the Earth Juice plants I've been feeding them that lineup.

Not just using Open Sesame. OS is for early flower, then Beastie Bloom is for mid flower then Cha Ching for late.

Why all three? I have both Ocean Forest and Light Warrior.

You're using these high number products along with humic acid, which suggests to me that you don't understand what humic acid does. You need to decide on a feeding program and stick to it, don't try adding in all this other stuff. Humic acid can act as a chelating agent, which makes nutrients better available, which means you not only can use less, but probably should use less. But you're using it with these high number solubles, which leads to plants that look like yours because they're overfed from the solubles AND the humic.

This should also serve as a lesson that feeding according to the bottle schedule is likely to not turn out well. The plants are grossly overfed.

An FYI. Big Bloom is the only organic product Fox Farms puts out. If you're also using Tiger Bloom then you're using yet another high NPK soluble. This is the result. I use Big Bloom often, have for years. Will NOT touch the other products, never will.

 

[Hammerhead]

If your going to use FFOF thats all u need to use unless u cut it with coco or promix... maybe lime is all uneed to add... to refeed you up pot it back into a bigger pot of FFOF. When u start adding chem or organic ferts to stuff that already has nutes it can cause problems.


To avoid these problems pick one or the other... lot easier to help.

I personally dont care for amended mixes but thats a personal preference as once u add u cannot take away. i have done tea and done chems im in chems now but about to go back to a mixture of teas and base nutes. Personal preference as ive done great with both.

use promix and feeds nutes or use FFOF and uppot for nutes... simple and e z.

I do the complete opisite of this advice.

I have used FF soil for years never encountered a problem like that. There is no FF soil that I know of that will keep your plants Healthy until harvest with just transplanting. FFOF and HF are only pre charged 30 days max. I don't even wait that long before I start using my PBP Nutrients. Nobody I know can use FF medium without nutrients until harvest.. FF mediums are not a water only option.. I have not got any Deficiency's. the last time I had one was a very long time ago. If I did not use the PBP nutrients I would have major plant problems. I do transplant from 1.3.8 g pots. After the 1g pot I start using PBP grow with LQ.

 

[MrGreenWeed]

I agree with Hammerhead, it appears as though you're using many different products.


You're using these high number products along with humic acid, which suggests to me that you don't understand what humic acid does. You need to decide on a feeding program and stick to it, don't try adding in all this other stuff. Humic acid can act as a chelating agent, which makes nutrients better available, which means you not only can use less, but probably should use less. But you're using it with these high number solubles, which leads to plants that look like yours because they're overfed from the solubles AND the humic.

This should also serve as a lesson that feeding according to the bottle schedule is likely to not turn out well. The plants are grossly overfed.

An FYI. Big Bloom is the only organic product Fox Farms puts out. If you're also using Tiger Bloom then you're using yet another high NPK soluble. This is the result. I use Big Bloom often, have for years. Will NOT touch the other products, never will.

Thank you much SeaMaiden.

Although I still don't agree I'm using too many products as the three solubles are packaged to be used with each other in stages, I do agree that the use of humic, which should be amended in the soil prior to planting, is what contributed to my issues along with feeding nutes at too high of strength in the FFOF soil.
I'm definitely taking all this advice in.

I never fed at full strength but I will start with even lower strengths from now on. Lesson learned again.

Understood. Big bloom is the main one out of the FF lineup. I know the lineup itself is not organic but I was just trying it out along with the EJ in my other plants to see the results. I not only fed too much to begin with but I jumped into a multi-strain grow using two totally different systems and I got what I deserved.

I'm just going to do my best to save this round and water until they need nutes, and next round I will heed the advice of the people here.

For the FF lineup. Being I don't really need grow nutes in this soil, when it comes to flower, is the big bloom enough to get through it? I'm assuming I need some type of bud booster at some point. Any suggestions of a good organic one that's packaged?

Peace

 

[MrGreenWeed]

I do the complete opisite of this advice.

I have used FF soil for years never encountered a problem like that. There is no FF soil that I know of that will keep your plants Healthy until harvest with just transplanting. FFOF and HF are only pre charged 30 days max. I don't even wait that long before I start using my PBP Nutrients. Nobody I know can use FF medium without nutrients until harvest.. FF mediums are not a water only option.. All of my results speak for themselves. I don't get Deficiency's the last time I had one was a very long time ago. If I did not use the PBP nutrients I would have major plant problems. I do transplant from 1.3.8 g pots. After the 1g pot I start using PBP grow with LQ.

Poppy's advice might work for him but it would never work for my setup..

I agree with you. I can't see using FFOF only throughout the entire grow. I understand his theory of re-potting in larger pots but in my case I only transplant once or twice in early to mid veg and I want to limit my final pot size to 4 gallons.

Just took a look at the Botanicare product lineup and they have tons of products. Do you limit yourself to the grow and bloom only?

Thanks for all the criticism and advice.

 

[Hammerhead]

I use Pure Blend Pro Grow and bloom for soil and coco,Liquide Karma. For my Bud boost I use Canna Pk 13/14. Thats all from seed to harvest .....When im in veg I use 300-500ppm. The plant will stay here until sexed and ready to flower up to 8 weeks. Transplant to 8g pot flip the light start using bloom with PK 13/14 weeks 3-6.

 

[SeaMaiden]

A good organic feed that's already packaged, sized only for smaller scale grows, is the suite of products made by some hippies around Alabama way. They call themselves Blue Mountain Organics, and the first product of theirs I used was Super Plant Tonic. They can be found on eBay, and like I said they make a suite of organic products. They are *not* certified, but being made from freshly squeezed hippies does away with the need for all that.
<I kid>
You pretty much can't do harm or go wrong using these products.

http://stores.ebay.com/Blue-Mountain-Organics?_rdc=1