Signs that a collapse is under way.

[SpasticGramps]

but it's going to take a lot of falling before the USA matches Zimbabwe

They certainly have a vested interest in a gold standard due to having so many reserves. I have to say the irony is amusing, but we are EPIC failing all over the place.

The bigger she is the harder she falls and when the party known as the USA is over there is going to be fireworks.

 

[igrowone]

We'll be in Zimbabwe like craziness sooner than most people think

Stores of food, cannabis, beer, wine, and water will serve us well in the not too distant future.

HINT HINT HINT
when NON MORMONS start thinking several years of stored food is a wise idea, you know we are close to a collapse

anything is possible - each of us has our view of the future
there are degrees, Zimbabwe is an extreme example - IMHO that's a low likelihood for the USA
but a decreased standard of living/lower real incomes, that i can believe, and that's bad enough

 

[Hydrosun]

anything is possible - each of us has our view of the future
there are degrees, Zimbabwe is an extreme example - IMHO that's a low likelihood for the USA
but a decreased standard of living/lower real incomes, that i can believe, and that's bad enough

What you describe is a soft landing, why should the greatest empire the world has ever seen go out in a whimper with a soft landing? No other large empire has failed softly. Like you I have no idea what will happen but I don't think the laws of physics or economics will be any different for the USA than it was for Rome.

 

[igrowone]

What you describe is a soft landing, why should the greatest empire the world has ever seen go out in a whimper with a soft landing? No other large empire has failed softly. Like you I have no idea what will happen but I don't think the laws of physics or economics will be any different for the USA than it was for Rome.

eventually, you probably be right, nothing lasts forever
but is it ready to happen now? my guess is not, at least not for quite a while
i don't think such a thing can be predicted with accuracy(other than eventually it will happen)

 

[jarff]

Jeez after reading this thread I won,t sleep tonite.......So many predictions.....some sound and some not.Not much anyone can do at this point and time,except to wait for the crash..
Things def have changed a lot in my 60 yrs,biggest thing I have seen is that more ppl. have so much.Almost sixty yrs ago all we had was an old radio....but that was right after WW2...Things have changed a lot since then.....maybe we,re heading for another cycle similar to the destruction of a global war.Food rationing,the fear felt by ppl.,thinking about the outcome of the war,and the number of deaths ...my mother used to tell me about the uncertainty everyone had of what was to come.But they came out of it after much work.

jarff

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Too many wanting too much, too fast.

 

[In~Plain~Site]

Jeez after reading this thread I won,t sleep tonite.......So many predictions.....some sound and some not.Not much anyone can do at this point and time,except to wait for the crash..
Things def have changed a lot in my 60 yrs,biggest thing I have seen is that more ppl. have so much.Almost sixty yrs ago all we had was an old radio....but that was right after WW2...Things have changed a lot since then.....maybe we,re heading for another cycle similar to the destruction of a global war.Food rationing,the fear felt by ppl.,thinking about the outcome of the war,and the number of deaths ...my mother used to tell me about the uncertainty everyone had of what was to come.But they came out of it after much work.

jarff

Too many wanting too much, too fast.

You're both onto some of the root causes of the potential shit storm we're facing.

When the first great depression hit, my people suffered minimal ill effects...something I'm very proud of.

Frugality, self-reliance and cunning...some traits I'm thankful to have in my 'toolbox', that were passed along.

I have this Rock Maple mitre box that my grandfather made, and every once in a while i'll take it out...just to remind me from whence I came not all of us bought into the illusion of prosperity 'they' presented to keep the sheeple quiet.


If the worst happens, so many people will be lost

 

[longearedfriend]

edit

 

[Applesauce]

Some of you are truly nut jobs. Growing, smoking and talking about weed seems to bring out the crazy in some of you at a much higher rate than normal. Will gas hit 5 a gallon in the future? Yes. Will other World powers rise? Yes. Will the Chinese be at your doorstep ready for a fight? Not within your lifetime. Not even close. A collapse under way? NOT AT ALL. Life will be more restricted, it might be harder to grow your plants the way you do with technology and the enforcement behind it advancing. I think you will all do fine. In my opinion your WASTING PRECIOUS TIME contemplating a shit hits the fan scenario.

I truly think that entire market is comprised of men with a primal calling that is deep inside. Instead of logical thought you are overun with some notion of running around a ravaged earth skinning animals and eating raw meat. Instead of convincing yourself AND OTHERS of a collapse, maybe you should leave your family, buy a .22 and wander the Earth. And I'm being serious.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Some of you are truly nut jobs.

You are right. There are absolutely no consequences to permanently monetizing structural deficits. It's never been tried before in the course of human history and we have no basis on which to draw conclusions for what may be the outcome.

Someone said on CNBC or Bloomberg the other day that you need only a room temperature IQ in economics to see the upcoming crisis. I'm guessing your economics IQ is around freezing point.

The Wiemar Republic collapsed. Life goes on. The Soviet Union collapsed. Life goes on. The USA will collapse and guess what. Life goes on. It will be different, but it will go on.

 

[sso]

empires rise and fall people go on.

i think applesauce and spasticgramps have some good points.

besides, any collapse now is only because of these moneybubbles.
(money that only exists in computers)

its human manufactured this crash.

nothing important is crashing. only banks and shit.

and thats only becuase they are greedy morons.

anything important like food and of that nature, is just fine.

i think we might be seeing some changes, but the only ones with anything to fear are these hucksters and swindlers that have been running around. their schemes are running aground.

of course, probably just gonna see new schemers.

life is just going to go on.

cant expect it not to change though.

if you havent seen how much it allready has changed in the last 100 years you are blind, heck the last 10 years,

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Only Little People Pay Taxes

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/04/taxes-richest-americans-charts-graph

 

[Bobby Stainless]

As Martin A. Sullivan of Tax.com recently calculated, a New York janitor making slightly more than $33,000 a year pays an effective tax rate of nearly 25%. And the effective tax rate for a resident of the Park Avenue building named after Helmsley, earning an average of $1.2 million annually? A cool 14.7%.

$33,000 x .25 = $8250
$1,200,000 x .147 = $176,400

I am confused. Who is paying more tax?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

14.7% < 25%

 

[Bobby Stainless]

$176,400.00 > $8,250.00

Correct?

It would take 21 people paying $8,250.00 to equal the tax that the one millionaire pays.

 

[RetroGrow]

When world population got above 6 billion, a cycle of collapse began.
The only way to fix this mess we're in is to limit overpopulation.
Yet, our "leaders" don't even talk about this.
Corporations need more people to sell stuff to.
Politicians need more dumbed down masses to keep them in power.

 

[SpasticGramps]

$33,000 x .25 = $8250
$1,200,000 x .147 = $176,400

I am confused. Who is paying more tax?

The number itself isn't what's important. It's the percentage of total income.

Our tax system's complexity favors the very wealthy. The productive class get hosed. The klepocrats use the complexity of the progressive tax system to not pay taxes.

All the arguments about raising taxes on the rich won't change anything either IMO. Raising taxes on "$250,000 and up people" sounds like a great way to stick it to the "rich". Only thing is that's just going to squeeze the productive class more. Keep doing it and they will have nothing. The klepocrats will continue stealing unabated until a fair tax system is put into place.

Fair tax IMO, would be some sort of low flat tax and a consumption tax. Income tax is slavery. I now work 1/2 of the year just to pay taxes. That's 6 months of labor so a bunch of bankers can go blow shit up in other countries and steal shit. No thanks. The system needs to collapse so it can be purged of all the institutionalized injustice.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I read an article the other day that graphs current income taxes, they're the lowest since 1952.

 

[igrowone]

Our tax system's complexity favors the very wealthy. The productive class get hosed. The klepocrats use the complexity of the progressive tax system to not pay taxes.

here lies the dark heart of the beast - people with very large amounts of money can change the system(to their benefit)
it's so difficult to break the hold, practically impossible actually
the USA isn't the worst, though it's getting worse over time

 

[Hydrosun]

I read an article the other day that graphs current income taxes, they're the lowest since 1952.

I'm pretty sure the top federal rate was lower when papa Bush said "Read my lips no new taxes." He raised taxes was NOT re-elected and then Clinton raised them again.

Just looked it up and top rate of 28% for 1988 and 1989 is lower than the current rate of 35%, so we are not living with the lowest rate of taxation since 1952, but rather we are living with a 25% higher marginal tax rate than the late 1980's.