gibberellin + jasmonic acid = more trichomes?

[UpInTheCut]

here are some websites for Methyl jasmonate

5 grams for $150
http://www.plantmedia.com/productinfo/3_43_288_691/6776/Methyl-jasmonate.html
here is a better deal 10 grams for $157
http://www.methyljasmonate.com/order_methyl_jasmonate.html

 

[Bass Akwards]

Spray - Watering combo?

Spray - Watering combo?

The general consensus seems to be that the "Jaz" product should be used at 1/2 - 1/4 strength, as a one time spray application during the second or third week of flowering.

The use of salicylic products in conjunction with Jaz spray is, evidently, problematic.

Would this also be true if aspirin were dissolved in the water being used for hydration at root level?

The use of aspirin in water, both pro & con, has been discussed in MJ forums for many years, though we've never bothered to try it.

Any ideas if it would be a positive addition to the use of Jaz?

If so, at what rate? How many standard aspirin ( 325 mg. ) per gallon would be a reasonable starting point?

 

[WoodElephant]

Hi Spurr, I had another question for you...
...I'd like to know your thoughts, and I plan on trying this in my next cycle here in 3 or so months, unless you think it would be really bad for the plants.

Sorry all, I'd like to re-phrase that. I was enjoying the fruits of my labor when I posted that last one. I'd really love to hear anyone's thoughts who care to comment on this. Please take a look at the defoliation thread and let me know what you think. Or, I'm sure it could be adapted to the regular stresses a lot of us put our plants through with supercropping, FIMming, topping, etc. without going to that extreme. Or, just about my proposed regimen of spraying in general?

Thanks for the input in advance, and sorry again for not including everyone the first time.

 

[Tomatoesonly]

Interesting stuff.

Seems everytime we find one good chemical, it is offset by something bad.
You find something to control stretch, no trichs
You find something to make trichs, no bud growth



Seems simple. Just find a chemical that makes HUGE buds with no rot and looked like they fell in a vat of glazed donut frosting.

 

[bubbakush714]

MicroTech AG & CT Now Includes Jasmonic Acid
http://www.growthproducts.com/pages/agriculture.asp?htmlpage=MicroTechAG_Ag.html


http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/PR_display.asp?prID=07-29

http://www.nanowerk.com/news/newsid=3592.php

 

[Woody]

Hi guys.

Brilliant thread. I enjoyed reading it a lot and although a lot of it is over my head I feel a little bit smarter today

I trialed a product a few grows ago with excellent results in the trichome department. I noticed a small glob of what I initially thought was sap as the buds dried. I pointed it out to my grow partner saying how weird it looked. Over the next few days we noticed more and more. These were not trichs has they were all between 1 and 3 millimeters. I've never seen trichs that big before. As more and more were popping up during the drying stage we decided to investigate further. We took a sample and looked it under the microscope and I was just amazed. You could clearly see that some of the trichs were rupturing. In a big way! You could see about 4 plant cells forming the stalk of the trich, then what can only be described as a "skin" or "Shell" of the original trich. If you imagen the skin as a rough circle under the microscope, a 1/4 of it was missing or opened and of course this is where the glob oozed from. In some of the samples the glob appeared to come out the top of the trich and devour the stalk and all. Amazing stuff.

It was a strain change at the same time as this uncontrolled product trial but I was not about to reproduce the effect from clones taken from that bush. The only limiting factor was the absence of this product that I could not find anywhere since original purchase.

After reading this thread I am starting to see some possibilities as to what this product could be. It is touted as having "triple action technology" from the marketers. Its from a company that traditionally have their hands in the dark forces of synthetic PGR's like paclobutrizol, and chlormequat chloride so I tend to think its something like this, except for resin production.

The liquid is a brown/orange colour, but does NOT smell like molasses. When i finished the bottle there was a couple of chunks of what looks like a very soft wax left in the bottom. Bees wax? Triacontanol? It could just be something that has precipitated out. Its application rate is sugested at 1ml/L for low EC. and 2ml/L at high EC.

Would love to know whats in this product. I drove quite some distance to get another bottle of it 2 days ago. No shops near me stock it. I am planning on using it during this grow and see how I go.

I dont want to promote any brands or anything, but the product is called Rock Resinator.

Your probably all familiar with their flagship product that use to be avaliable called Rock Juice. It was a paclobutrizol style product similar to superbud from dutchmaster. Here is a link to their product website http://www.rocknutrients.com.au/resinator

Once again, bloody excellent thread. Its great to see guys experimenting and demystifying. Now if only I can get a handle on what the active ingredient of this resinator is, then I would feel a little more confident smoking my own product.

 

[Sabertooth Phar]

A good guess knowing what the Aussie's are up to. Since it is too late for PBZ and by their literature- GA3, NAA, TRIA and probably one or two of the Polyamines (ie. Spermine and or Spermidine) to promote Ethylene production. I don't think it has a Cytokinin in it. Cheaper and easier to just buy it and not worry about the dosage.

Might add propolis too for flavor and weight. Many Aussie and Canadian companies do this too.

 

[bubbakush714]

http://datasheets.scbt.com/sc-205355.pdf

PRODUCT USE
■ The jasmonates (JAs) are a group of plant hormones which help regulate plant growth and development. Jasmonates
include jasmonic acid and its esters, such as methyl jasmonate (MeJa). Like the related prostaglandin hormones found in
mammals, the jasmonates are cyclopentanone derivatives which are derived biosynthetically from fatty acids. They are
biosynthesised from linolenic acid by the octadecanoid pathway. Upon exposure to stress (e.g., wounding and pathogens),
jasmonates are produced in plants and cause the induction of a proteinase inhibitor. A coordinated activation of programmed
cell death and defense mechanisms often accompany the antimicrobial response of plants. (-) – Jasmonic acid and it methyl esters are ubiquitous in plants. They seem to participate in leaf senescence and in the defence mechanism against fungi. Just
like all other plant hormones have jasmonates both activating and inhibiting effects. Synergistic and antagonistic effects on
other hormones have been observed, too. Jasmonate derivatives induce the accumulation of so-called jasmonate-inducedproteins
that were found in all plant species tested. Their accumulation can also be caused by desiccation or ABA (abscisic acid) effects. Jasmonate-induced-proteins are of varying molecular weights, and molecules of different size classes have immunologically been shown to be related. The major portion of these proteins is not glycosylated, has no proteolytic activity and is metabolically stable. Labelling with immunogold and electron microscopy showed that some of them are located within the nucleus, while others were detected in the vacuole. None have ever been found in mitochondria. Their synthesis can be inhibited by cycloheximide, but not by chloramphenicol. Chloramphenicol affects mitochondrial proteins. Jasmonate-inducedproteins are lacking in roots, in bleached leaves, and in leaves of chlorophyll-deficient Hordeum vulgare mutants. They exist in etiolated leaves, though. Jasmonates not only regulate the transcription of these proteins, but also influence the rate of translation of different groups of mRNA. They do, for example, decrease the production rate of several essential housekeeping proteins. Jasmonates can kill human cancer cells; they act directly on mitochondria derived from cancer cells. Methyl jasmonate induced death in breast and prostate carcinoma cells, as well as in melanoma, lymphoma, and leukaemia cells. Jasmonates are promising candidates for the treatment of chronic lymphocytic leukaemia CLL) and other types of cancer.

 

[Aston1]

What dose gibberellin and methyl jasmonate will be good and safe ?

 

[big_daddy]

FWIW, Jaz Spray products are offered with free shipping until 5-8. http://www.facebook.com/jazsprays if you subscribe to their e-newsletter, you can save an additional 5 bucks.

b_d

 

[Overthinker]

Has anyone tried a little alter application of JAZ rose than 28days into 12/12?

DonkDBZ posted that his plant hit with 1/2 strength at day21 followed by full strength at day 28 was lost to rot from overly dense nugs.
My thought is that a little later application than day 28 may help prevent too much density on strains that have this tendancy already. I worry about possible side affect if applied to late however(foxtailing?)

Donk, Are you still using the JAZ? if so have you any new advice? I will be testing it for the first time soon. (today is day 19)

Thanks, O

 

[Sabertooth Phar]

JAZ is best used after 1 week into the second bud growth stage. It encourages resin production and ripening. Once you start it bud growth will slow and the pistils will turn color. This time frame is usually 3-5 weeks from harvest depending on strain. A further breakdown would be 4-3 week range for heavy indica phenos and 5-4 weeks for heavy sativa phenos. Use it too early and you reduce bud size with no increase in resin over using it at the above time frame. Once you notice that there is more bud growth, look back and try to figure when you think it started. Add 1 week and work from there. Can’t get you any closer at this time as it is far too strain dependent.

Foxtailing

JAZ has no effect on foxtailing. That belongs to gibberellins (GA3) and or the DNA breakdown in parts of hybrid plants. To stop that use a light shot of PBZ or BAP. If you are against synthetics, then folar spray seaweed every other day for a week to 10 days. The cytokinins in it will slow it down yet keep growth going. Any cytokinin will help slow it down. Something with limited success is also to remove the top of the foxtailing branch. This tends to stop the bad hormone signals from continuing. This is not always successful though, but it is free.

 

[spurr]

Wow, this thread has continued nicely. I will pop in an answers questions as I am able in the next few days.

 

[spurr]

MicroTech AG & CT Now Includes Jasmonic Acid
http://www.growthproducts.com/pages/agriculture.asp?htmlpage=MicroTechAG_Ag.html


http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/PR_display.asp?prID=07-29

http://www.nanowerk.com/news/newsid=3592.php

I just looked at that first link you posted really quickly, and I thought I would point out an incorrect claim:

Jasmonic acid (JA) is a natural plant hormone that is released by plants when plants are attacked by insects. Like many other phytohormones, JA helps regulate a plant's response to wounds and enhances a plant's systemic acquired resistance (SAR), which is critical in "helping a plant help itself" when faced with stress.

Jasmontes (as JA, MeJA, or MDHJ) do not induce SAR response, or at least they have not been shown to do so as of yet. I too made that mistake in thinking they do induce SAR when I was first reseaching jasmonates some time ago. It would be just great it they did induce SAR, but sadly, no. That siad, they do provide SAR-like effects, but it's not a SAR response per say.

 

[Overthinker]

Thanks for the details saberT. Very much appriciated!
So it sounds like 'in general' day 28 is a bit early for most genetics.
Sounds like to me the ideal range would be from day 35 to 45 depending on the genetic tendancies. possibly day 28 for a very fast finisher.
Your input helped my understanding of ideal timing quite a bit. Thanks

O

 

[Overthinker]

Another question to anyone who would know. For the purposes of testing, would a plant translocate the JAZ if sprayed on only one brach and affect the entire plant? Or would it only primarily affect the cells that actually come in contact. My understanding is that MJ can take the form as vapor? and could it possibly even affect neighbors?

 

[DonkDBZ]

Has anyone tried a little alter application of JAZ rose than 28days into 12/12?

DonkDBZ posted that his plant hit with 1/2 strength at day21 followed by full strength at day 28 was lost to rot from overly dense nugs.
My thought is that a little later application than day 28 may help prevent too much density on strains that have this tendancy already. I worry about possible side affect if applied to late however(foxtailing?)

Donk, Are you still using the JAZ? if so have you any new advice? I will be testing it for the first time soon. (today is day 19)

Thanks, O

I am flipping to flower here in a few days. Yes I will use it again. I have different strains though.

Another growing I know had the same blueberry cut and he brought a nug that had been cured for a month. after checking his side by side with mine mucho difference in smell and my was denser.

 

[Sabertooth Phar]

JAZ will transfer to all plants in a 4x4 cell. It is a hormone that is gaseous. It will excite the next and then the next plant. They in turn produce more gas and on it goes. Boy did I mess those other experiments up when I put it on a couple in a cell. They all changed within 10-14 days.

They say that it is not a SAR reaction but what else can you call it. The plant thinks it's under attack and produces resin and ripens to get the seeds out before it might be overcome by herbivores. Thats SAR to me but yes they say it is not. Oh well, maybe they will make a sub division of SAR for us cannabis guys.

 

[spurr]

JAZ will transfer to all plants in a 4x4 cell. It is a hormone that is gaseous.

I'm not sure that is fully correct. Jaz is MDHJ, not MeJA, and it's MeJA (and/or JA) to which you are referring. There is sadly very little research on MDHJ thus far, esp. in regard to trichome production. I assume MDHJ is converted into MeJA within plant tissue, like is the case with exogenous JA, in terms of trichome production.

What do you mean by "4x4 cell"?

They say that it is not a SAR reaction but what else can you call it. The plant thinks it's under attack and produces resin and ripens to get the seeds out before it might be overcome by herbivores.

That is not how jasmonates affect trichome production. Exogenous application of jasmonates increase trichome density by MeJA directly, not by 'tricking' the plant to think it's under attack. MeJA is needed for plants to form trichomes, and AFAIK without MeJA plants will not form trichomes. Jasmonates are found endogenously as (at least) JA and MeJA in plants, and it's the MeJA that is used for trichome production and increase of (some) terpenoids/teprenes.

Thats SAR to me but yes they say it is not. Oh well, maybe they will make a sub division of SAR for us cannabis guys.

When a plant has SAR response induced the plant do not 'try' to ripen faster as a rule. SAR response is varied and jasmonates do not induce SAR. That said, I am unsure what you mean by "... they say it is not [SAR]"; who are "they"?

Induction of SAR can happen via many routes such as application of SA, aspirin (SA analog), chitosan, touching/shaking of plant, cutting lots of leafs, etc. However, SA and/or aspirin should not be used on a plant one is also spraying with jasmonates because there is "negative cross talk" between SA and MeJA. Not only that, but SA actually reduces trichome density and formation ...

 

[spurr]

Another question to anyone who would know. For the purposes of testing, would a plant translocate the JAZ if sprayed on only one brach and affect the entire plant? Or would it only primarily affect the cells that actually come in contact. My understanding is that MJ can take the form as vapor? and could it possibly even affect neighbors?

I am unsure if exogenous application of jasmonates are systemic, but I assume so. Plants will release jasmonates (as MeJA IIRC) if 'under attack', which 'warns' other plants. That in turn will set off a chain reaction in the second plant.