gibberellin + jasmonic acid = more trichomes?

[spurr]

If anyone is interested I can write how to make stock solution of MeJA with EtOH (as Everclear) and water, and then how to dissolve 1 mL into 1 liter of water to make a specific ppm for foliar application.

 

[OsWiZzLe]

for me it was 30 ppms of GA3

 

[OldMan&theWeed]

@ OldMan&theWeed and Oswizzle:

I cannot recall, did you tell us at what concentration you used GA3?

I'm a bit sloppy when it comes to application rates.

I used the wincy spoon that came with the GA powder, and dissolved it in one a liter spray bottle as per the directions. I then added 1.5 oz. of of JAZ Rose Spray to the same container.

I know my inaccuracy cheapens the value of my experiment, so I leave it to others to carefully pave the trail I have so crudely hacked.

 

[spurr]

I'm a bit sloppy when it comes to application rates.

I used the wincy spoon that came with the GA powder, and dissolved it in one a liter spray bottle as per the directions. I then added 1.5 oz. of of JAZ Rose Spray to the same container.

From super-grow? I can calculate the approximate ppm you used. Was it a level spoonful? Also, was it an older order or do you know the size of the spoon? (I ask about when you ordered because super-grow changed spoon sizes at one point and that affects the ppm).

 

[spurr]

for me it was 30 ppms of GA3

And did you notice foxtailing in flowering and stretching plants in veg or pre-flower?

 

[OldMan&theWeed]

From super-grow? I can calculate the approximate ppm you used. Was it a level spoonful? Also, was it an older order or do you know the size of the spoon? (I ask about when you ordered because super-grow changed spoon sizes at one point and that affects the ppm).

It's from a 2 year-old super-grow order.

 

[DonkDBZ]

DonkDBZ,

Are you seeing smaller buds on the treated plants?

What day did you start?

I hit my Blueberry with 1/2 Str Jaz at day 21. And gonna spray it and the other blueberry at day 29. full str.

My test is too see if early application of Jaz affects end nug size or causes any effect on ripening

 

[spurr]

It's from a 2 year-old super-grow order.

If it was that long ago, and you used about one spoon full to one liter you probably used about 25-30 ppm. Can't say for sure, but that is pretty accurate.

When I test GA3 again I think I will use 1 ppm and 0.5 ppm.

 

[OsWiZzLe]

I sprayed my girls in week 2 of flowering...and within 3 days the foxtailing became intense...it looked like my nugs were throwing up gang signs lol

 

[spurr]

Yep Yep day 21 of flower. Interesting note from day 25.....pistols of the 2 girls spray are turning slightly brown/dieing off. The blueberry not sprayed still all white.

So whats the deal with spidermites and Jaz? So ....from rooted clone when would be best time to spray jaz in veg? ....and would it hinder growth at all?

whats your guys best theoretical guesses?

Sorry, I just noticed your question. For Jaz spray you could spray the plants once they are visibly growing after being moved from the clone chamber/cloner.

I do not have any experience using Jaz (MDHJ) so Oswizzle would probably be the best person to ask about effects on growth; he has been using it for some time. My best guess would be that using Jaz spay at 1/2 strength, like you did with flowering plants, will not noticeably hinder growth rate. But again, Oswizzle would be the best person to answer that question for cannabis. I think he has used Jaz during pre-flowering but I am not sure. IIRC, in the Jaz patents I read the claim was made that MDHJ does not affect growth (e.g., possibly reducing growth rate) as much, or in the same fashion as JA (and IIRC MeJA hinders growth less than JA).

FWIW, I have not noticed reduced growth rate from MeJA during pre-flowering or early flowering. Granted I have not tested MeJA enough and at various concentrations to make any type of definitive claim in that regard...

 

[OldMan&theWeed]

FWIW, I have not noticed reduced growth rate from MeJA during pre-flowering or early flowering. Granted I have not tested MeJA enough and at various concentrations to make any type of definitive claim in that regard...

I'm on my second run with JAZ, and all other things remaining equal, I sprayed the JAZ at the end of week three, one week earlier than my first trial run.

The buds are even frostier than before, but about HALF the size as before. Since I'm not a commercial grower, quality trumps quantity, and I think I'll keep it at week three.

 

[AgileCrow]

Hi All,
First let me say this has the potential to be a great forum. I'm not a "serial forum-joiner" because most are just "Dankity-dank! I love weed!" (We get it already, we like pot too...)

After a quick browse through, I had to stop in. I've read some comments that challenged me and that's awesome! I'm really looking forward to particpating.

Quick question (on topic finally...) I used a Humboldt's Own product that was given to me that produced a reasonable increase in trichs. Any ideas on how they're doing it? The cat that gave it to me said it was only like $10.

 

[DonkDBZ]

OK here we go

Blue Dream day 27 before being sprayed. Already very frosty.




And a few days Later day 32




The blueberry already has almost all cloudy trics.

 

[OldMan&theWeed]

Hi All,

I used a Humboldt's Own product that was given to me that produced a reasonable increase in trichs. Any ideas on how they're doing it? The cat that gave it to me said it was only like $10.

It sounds like Purple Max or Snowstorm. I too have used it. More than likely the active ingredient is chitosan.

Both chitosan and jasmonic acid fool the plant into thinking it's under attack. In its defense the plant starts to produce resins in order to ward off the insects.

I've experimented with both substances, they both work, but jasmonic acid has been the more effective of the two.

 

[spurr]

@ OM&tW:

You bring up something I plan to try: chitosan (i.e., chitin oligosaccharide) with jasmonates. Chitosan induces SAR and jasmonates induce plant defenses via other mechanisms (not by SAR to my understanding). Jasmonates induce greater trich production (number and density) than inducing SAR from my experience using aspirin and harpin protein to induce SAR (separately). Using both chitosan and jasmonates together could negate the possible growth reduction from high application rate of jasomonates because SAR induction causes many plants to increase growth rate/yield. Granted, it is only my speculation that both together could offer synergistic response. SA and jasmonates are not a good mix, yet I have not found info stating chitosan and jasmonates may have negative cross-talk like is the case with SA and jasmonates.

Both chitosan and jasmonates have been found to inhibit powdery mildew, fwiw.

Also, if/when you use Jaz spray again on other plants you should try using 1/4 strength (or less, even 1/8 strength). Jaz at full application rate (from bottle direction) is ~320 ppm, or thereabouts. Using ~100 ppm or less may provide increased trichs and smell (terpenoids) on par with higher ppm but not reduced bud growth (or as much reduced) as you have noticed with higher ppm of MDHJ.

I plan on testing 1 ppm and 10 ppm of MeJA, I have used 100 ppm before. With many PGRs less is more, and with MeJA using less, ex., 1 ppm in working solutoin (foliar spray) means one could make a stock solution and not have to buy a lot of MeJA.

 

[AgileCrow]

@OldMan&TheWeed- Thanks! That's how I was leaning, but I've been wrong before :}
I went and looked at Snowstorm, sounds like you were right on.

@Spurr -Now you've got me thinking I'm going to try all of your suggestions/ideas.
-The cost/availabilty of the chitosan is attractive. So...number 1 gets that.
-The MDHJ is more trich-productive, I'll give it a try with the reduced ppms you suggested.
-Number 3 gets the salicylic induced SAR and MDHJ induced predation response.
-Four gets the chitosan and MDHJ to how bad I can possibly ruin a plant...LOL

I'm a firm believer when both of you say less is more. Anybody that has seen a healthy case of Too Much Love with nutes, knows more isn't always the way to go. Just inch up the ppm until you see diminishing returns and you've got your number.

Eventually I'll get a good handle on the jasmonates and start working with the MeJa. But this is a great starting point.

Thanks for the info, you guys rock!

 

[Jaymer]

I emailed em about getting a Jaz spray sampler hoping for a response and a package. I know that using it outdoors sure would be a big help to detour weathering. Everyone's smoke reports sound like it caused an improvement so smoke quality and effect must depend a lot on trich production versus big yielding buds..

 

[WoodElephant]

@ OM&tW:

You bring up something I plan to try: chitosan (i.e., chitin oligosaccharide) with jasmonates. Chitosan induces SAR and jasmonates induce plant defenses via other mechanisms (not by SAR to my understanding). Jasmonates induce greater trich production (number and density) than inducing SAR from my experience using aspirin and harpin protein to induce SAR (separately). Using both chitosan and jasmonates together could negate the possible growth reduction from high application rate of jasomonates because SAR induction causes many plants to increase growth rate/yield. Granted, it is only my speculation that both together could offer synergistic response. SA and jasmonates are not a good mix, yet I have not found info stating chitosan and jasmonates may have negative cross-talk like is the case with SA and jasmonates.

Both chitosan and jasmonates have been found to inhibit powdery mildew, fwiw.

Also, if/when you use Jaz spray again on other plants you should try using 1/4 strength (or less, even 1/8 strength). Jaz at full application rate (from bottle direction) is ~320 ppm, or thereabouts. Using ~100 ppm or less may provide increased trichs and smell (terpenoids) on par with higher ppm but not reduced bud growth (or as much reduced) as you have noticed with higher ppm of MDHJ.

I plan on testing 1 ppm and 10 ppm of MeJA, I have used 100 ppm before. With many PGRs less is more, and with MeJA using less, ex., 1 ppm in working solutoin (foliar spray) means one could make a stock solution and not have to buy a lot of MeJA.

Hi Spurr, I had another question for you. I don't know if you've seen much about the "Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique, but I had an idea and wondered what your thoughts would be given your knowledge of the PGRs. I thought it might be useful to spray JA on the plants a day or so before pruning, then spray chitosan a day or so after. From what i understand from reading this thread and some of your background information, the JA should upregulate plant defense/recovery mechanisms thus better preparing the plant to deal with the shock of losing leaves. Then, spray the chitosan after the plant has time to heal would promote growth and accelerate recovery and new growth. This could probably be done throughout vegetative and cloning, as per the cycle you stated you use earlier.

I'd like to know your thoughts, and I plan on trying this in my next cycle here in 3 or so months, unless you think it would be really bad for the plants.

 

[DonkDBZ]

Well my blueberrys are done and dried. Dunno where my camera is.

One blueberry got 3 week 1/2str week 4 full
other got week 4 full.

The one that got week 3 and 4 produced some of the stinkiest and rock hard nugs I have seen. They looked small when I pulled em but they barely even shrunk and dried.

Major Major Major downside. Lost all my top nugs to Budrot. So dense that they could not transpire proper and blam into the garage they went.

The other girl. very dense but does not make that same thud sound when dropping a nug into some tupperwere. Smell is just as bad as the other one. Me and my brother in law both felt like we were cutting onions when trimming buds. They also barely shrunk after drying. did not get budrot like the other.

Downsides almost none. A lil foxtailing on both girls

The blue dream came out super frosty. Sugar leaves coated to the tip. great trim. big downside was major foxtailing

My suggestions for others.

Know your strain well. Especially how it handles stress. Beware of already dense strains use 1/4 to 1/2 str or chance loseing a bunch off that plant. Keep humidity in check. Use preventatives like serenade.

 

[Storm Shadow]

how bad was the foxtailing? You used Jazz by itself without GA3 right? Also, When did you apply it? Was it b4 lights out or b4 they came on?

Which bottle from Jazz are you guys using? They only ship the Rose version to California....The label says it has some P & K in it...