Gas is gonna go through the roof.....

[BrainSellz]

i think i seen something of the sort....except they werent burning wood they were burning animal sh*t...the look of discust on the folks faces as they were driving through the town was hilarious....the poo poo train....

 

[igrowone]

yeah, it does give the pooh pooh train a bad name, that was funny
it's an old technology, but is pretty cost effective from what i've seen, not sure how far you can go on a bushel of shit through

 

[BrainSellz]

yeah, it does give the pooh pooh train a bad name, that was funny
it's an old technology, but is pretty cost effective from what i've seen, not sure how far you can go on a bushel of shit through

... id say alot further than you can go on bullshit....

 

[supermanlives]

glad i got in early. my pad is worth 3x what i paid 10 years ago. and its just about paid off.and i got great weather and can walk to all my needs

 

[RudolfTheRed]

oh well?

find other ways to live?

stop bitchin' and do something about it.

solar panels on the house and an eco-friendly car and it'll even out.

or do what humans (all other land animals) did for millenniums.... walk!

i know, i know.... shocking isn't it?

perhaps some of us will have to give up some luxuries... big deal. you still have it better/have had it better than 99.99% of the rest of the world.

if joe shome can't afford his hummer anymore and has to ride a bike i could give a shit. there's still far bigger tragedies in the world.

food prices? start a garden. get some animals and learn to slaughter them. buy local. etc. etc. etc.

 

[idiit]

it's gonna happen. proactive is the only way to go.

 

[Blueshark]

My veg garden tripled in size last year and will be bigger this year. Freezing in Florida and too much rain/mudslides in Cali? yeh, food is going up. Adapt or perish. Oldest adage in Nature's book.
I'm in for the long haul, but not looking forward to it....Just like my Grandparents and Great Grandparents didn't want the Depression.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.....

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

My pops was born in 1924. His family was poor, he says they rarely if ever thought about others with more. Everybody around them struggled. My grandfather owned a general store but didn't do much better than his patrons.

Farming was a necessity and my dad continued gardening throughout my young life. I can remember sacking up extra produce and taking it to my friends' homes. I was a silly kid and it was so embarrassing. I'm proud of the memories though, not to mention the know how.

Unless you're a fiend like me, general gardening is every bit as fun as growing weed. Outdoor growing has it's challenges but nothing beats rain, sun and homegrown produce.

 

[robbiedublu]

During the great depression, my gramps who was an electrician by trade, in Buffalo NY, couldn't find a regular job for over 10 yrs. They just scraped to get by. Funny thing is that my dad, who was just a little kid, didn't remember it as being a terrible time. Things were just simpler then. Things certainly seem more complicated now.

 

[DeezyH]

We have over 100 years worth of natural gas in shale in the Eastern US alone...

Prices are going to go up significantly over the next decade, first because of global consumption and second because of debt related inflation.

The US govt on down to your local municipality has been borrowing too much and promising even more for decades now. All that debt has been monetized by the Fed and inflation is going to happen.

Switching to "Green" energy wont solve anything except make a few Washington elites extremely wealthy.

 

[ibjamming]

You know, there are times when I even wonder why I care to pay attention about things that go on in the world. Its not like I have the power to really do anything about it on a worldly scale.
However, when many voices come together, it is like a chorus and CANNOT be ignored. Just by virtue of the fact that all of us are discussing this and many other points on this forum gives me hope for the future. I am certain that things we post about are talked about with others in our OWN personal lives and it mushrooms from there.
I am very appreciative of the interaction between us all on these forums...because it means we CARE about the world around us.
We may not always agree (the Founding Fathers didn't) on the course of action to take, but when we are talking about it, ideas come forth that may end with a great solution previously hidden from view.
Thanks to all of you for sharing ideas....remember, WE are the answer. If we fail to care, then all is truely lost.

Be safe this New Year...

That's why they keep us divided with "hot button" issues...so we don't unite.

Disco, You're right. Big Gov't. shouldn't subsidize anything. Oil, banks, insurance/investment co's and car manufacturing.... No business using MY tax dollar for their own ends. All of these have plenty of markup on their goods/services and if they mismanage their way to bankruptcy, so be it. Maybe the next one won't make the same mistakes. If they know that there is no REAL consequence for there stupidity, why should they change?

They give themselves these subsidies...they "pay" someone to get elected and they in turn give them what they want once in office.

Great post... I'm always a little disappointed when a good heated political thread gets shut down. It's important that we argue these things out amongst ourselves... I know it makes me think & do more research about the issues.

Reading you guys talking about this reminded me of a radio show I heard the other night (I don't remember who...), anyways, he was talking about tax credits really being disguised expenditures. Accordingly, when you add up all these government expenditures (tax credits... both for business & personal). It's the biggest portion of the budget, bigger than defense, bigger than medicare & bigger than social security. We spend more on tax credits than anything else, why in the world did we send money to exxon/mobile last year???

So... I hate to agree with Ronald Reagan, but thinking about it this way... I guess government does spend too much... (on tax credits... oh, there's a lot of other places we could save money... but l'm sure we'll all have some disagreements to hammer out... although I think we can all agree to disband the DEA)

... but what the guy was saying was that by is numbers (I don't have any links or math to back me up here... just something to think about), we could more than balance the budget just by cutting out spending on tax credits.

Sorry this doesn't relate to oil...

It's NOT an expenditure...it's just going deeper into debt. EVERY dollar not gained through taxation stays as debt. Nothing is given to the company...they just don't have to pay anything. so it stays a debt to the government.

Your conversation with Disco just made me think of it... I agree, (something for a different thread)

as someone who's dirt poor right now... I wonder how inflation will affect me, I don't drive much right now (for now... I use to have a two hour commute), but it's gonna drive up the cost of just about everything else (that has to be transported anyway). Now would be a great time for me to take on some debt and buy a house, (hopefully the next year or so).

If you're "dirt poor" now...you don't stand a chance. Inflation WILL eat you alive! But the government will bail you out...as the debt reaches $15 trillion +.

Thanks for reminding me about the double dip... I forgot I'd just heard about that the other day (with the talk about inflation, I was thinking of interest rates), I won't be in a position to buy for awhile, so that's good news for me I guess.

That's what I'm hoping... just thinking of interest costs too, I guess I can minimize that with a high down and short terms.

Interest rates MUST go back down...we CAN'T service debt at high interest rates. They'll figure out some way to keep them down...or, it's REALLY the beginning of the end.

They're already working on it. At least according to this story.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar-1798175.html

The day the dollar isn't the world reserve currency...is the day America will die. I don't see it happening...all that military spending wasn't just to show off you know. We CAN kick ANYONE'S ass...big time. Anyone who thinks we "lost" Vietnam, or will lose in the middle east is dreaming. We voluntarily decided to cut our losses...we COULD have literally destroyed Vietnam or the middle east. It's the collateral damage we try to avoid that makes it LOOK like we lost. It's like Mike Tyson not continuing fighting the "woman's boxing champion" to her eventual death...

High fuel prices hit the poor first and hardest.

Bolivia Fuel Riots

The old woman makes a good point at the end. "As fuel prices increase my money becomes worthless."

Yup...and it's what started that recession.

Love your posts, don't usually comment because I agree...

During the great depression, my gramps who was an electrician by trade, in Buffalo NY, couldn't find a regular job for over 10 yrs. They just scraped to get by. Funny thing is that my dad, who was just a little kid, didn't remember it as being a terrible time. Things were just simpler then. Things certainly seem more complicated now.

Yes they are. Back then MOST people could survive on their own...not now. Stop the food to NYC and in a week there will be millions dead...from starvation and killed for what they have. MOST people can't survive now without our "system".

We have over 100 years worth of natural gas in shale in the Eastern US alone...

Prices are going to go up significantly over the next decade, first because of global consumption and second because of debt related inflation.

The US govt on down to your local municipality has been borrowing too much and promising even more for decades now. All that debt has been monetized by the Fed and inflation is going to happen.

Switching to "Green" energy wont solve anything except make a few Washington elites extremely wealthy.

Cracking the shale to get the gas SUPPOSEDLY has been bad for the water table in some places it has been used. I don't know the wisdom of cracking underground rock with explosives... But I also don't know if the reports of pollution are real.

The rest of what you said...dead on!

 

[Pompey_Monkey]

Fuel needs, water needs, fertiliser needs, energy needs...

The basic problem is that demand is (or soon will be) outstripping supply. What drives demand? People!

Population growth is the root cause of all this crap.

Doug Stanhope has the answer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwcap_-9tuA

 

[zenoonez]

Cracking the shale to get the gas SUPPOSEDLY has been bad for the water table in some places it has been used. I don't know the wisdom of cracking underground rock with explosives... But I also don't know if the reports of pollution are real.

Yea "fracking" as they call it is bad stuff. They use all sorts of chemicals when they do that, they just pump it into the rock like it is never going to get into people's water. The midwest is covered in that shit because of Dick Cheney opening up federal land leases to mineral excavation. There are tens of thousands of natural gas wells destroying the water table of the midwest as we speak. It is fucking horrifying that it isn't a bigger story than it is.

 

[Sir_Nugget]

THINK you guys.. between air batteries, synthetic "green" oils, reneweable oils... not to mention, hybrid kinetic + solar powered devices, not to mention processors are evolving to require less and less electricity, as well as many other devices... gas is an elephant on our backs guys.. god thing it'l be gone, sure as hell dont need it that bad

 

[igrowone]

Yea "fracking" as they call it is bad stuff. They use all sorts of chemicals when they do that, they just pump it into the rock like it is never going to get into people's water. The midwest is covered in that shit because of Dick Cheney opening up federal land leases to mineral excavation. There are tens of thousands of natural gas wells destroying the water table of the midwest as we speak. It is fucking horrifying that it isn't a bigger story than it is.

it is a big story, i think it's understood it will fuck up ground water
but it's the grim economics, cheap oil/gasoline is slowly(relatively) going away, though that does seem to be speeding up at the moment
cheap natural gas is too big for it not to happen, screw up some ground water? go drink bottled, this is America after all, nothing stops big business/money when the stakes are this high
the good news is this will likely help a lot with the USA's energy needs for the next 50 years or so, a lot of natural gas is becoming accessible with this technology
it will suck for some people, but that does seem to be a recurring theme in this country

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Ever seen people that can ignite their water faucets because of gasoline seeping into the groundwater? Imagine natural gas in your well. Won't take a BIC lighter and contact with the liquid, a t-stat could do the trick.

 

[igrowone]

Ever seen people that can ignite their water faucets because of gasoline seeping into the groundwater? Imagine natural gas in your well. Won't take a BIC lighter and contact with the liquid, a t-stat could do the trick.

i have seen that, got the impression it was usually natural gas that was the problem
but i'm sure there are plenty of gasoline contamination cases
i wonder what the cost is of filtering/RO systems would be for filtering out these contaminants? that's actually a topic this forum has some expertise in

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Yeah. We know a thing er two about filtering, don't we.

 

[cashmunny]

I think you are right that gasoline is going higher. But keep in mind that the Saudi's have a lot of extra capacity and Iraq really isn't fully exploited yet. When OPEC is pumping full tilt and prices are still climbing will be the time to worry.

Gas prices are kept artificially low in the United States by subsidy. If the oil companies had to pay out of pocket for the military protection we provide to them for free in the middle east gas would be $20 a gallon. You pay the full price for that protection one way or another, you just don't see it because it comes out of the defense budget that your taxes pay for.


Actually in some ways the higher the price the better. High prices will stimulate research and development into alternative energy, expand exploration and drilling for new supplies, and people will buy smaller more efficient vehicles. All good things.

 

[SpasticGramps]

High prices will stimulate research and development into alternative energy, expand exploration and drilling for new supplies, and people will buy smaller more efficient vehicles. All good things.

This is true. Economic viability and necessity will drive the markets to innovate.