Legalize MJ ! Really? No I mean REALLY?

[Aeronoob]

I see a fairly common thread in this forum. Most think and want legalization. Well, there is nothing wrong with that is there?

Well, let me clue you in a bit about our government passing laws and granting rights.

If you think it is all a fairly simple thing, think again. The only way the government can really do the right thing here is by de-criminalizing possession and use. BUT IT WILL NOT STOP THERE.

The government, our U.S. government has a very bad habit of trying not to leave any money on the table for it's citizens. So bring the tax man to the equation and let's all pony up. Imagine, paying commerce taxes on a common weed.

But wait! It gets even better. Government regulation will bring.... wait for it..... government regulation. Aside from the fact that any and all government regulation ALWAYS makes entry into that specific business more difficult and more expensive, thereby stifling competition, there are even more headaches to follow.

Enter the USDA. Want to be a grower, well be sure to follow the rules here. Specific cultural practices, such as applying the most "organic" of compounds, is a time consuming, money wasting "pain in the ass" process.

Sulfer application. Well, in order to now buy the sulfur, you need to be a licensed PCO or PCA. You must have documented to the USDA how many acres of specific crops and strains you farm (or # of plants in this case) or you cannot buy at the local Ag Supplier. Can't buy there? You will then spend more for the same product thereby making your product more expensive to produce then your competition. And be prepared to report to the local County Ag Commissioner within 3 days of applying sulfur, the rate, the product I.D., the weather and wind conditions at the time of application, and on and on. Farmers need full time secretaries just doing that ONE thing. Reporting to the government.

Then try using a registered fungicide or pesticide and multiply the problems X 10. And don't you dare deviate from the label or your crop will be Red-Tagged and dumped by the government. They cross reference the amount you buy (ag suppliers must report who bought what to the government) with the amount of acres you operate.

Then bring the quality control of proper labeling of weight and Variety. You want to play in this game? You better make and register your own labels and you better follow all the rules.

Then, the USDA will grade your product before you can sell it. Why not? It does so on EVERY other crop grown and distributed in this country.

I could go on and on but here it is in a nutshell.

Before you jump on any "legalize marijuana" bandwagon, you better make sure you read the law and you know the unintended consequences.
Because what will happen is that a VERY few VERY well funded folks will survive. The rest will be regulated out of business. The black market will never go away. But doing business there will always prevent you from being legit.

I would think just plain old de-criminalization is the way to go. But once the government sets their sights on using MJ as a tax stream, we're all fucked. There are a few well funded proponents of legalizing marijuana that know this and are using everyone's desire to de-criminalize as a way to cement their foot in the door while making sure you are never allowed in.

Think before you act.

so basicly what your saying is, if you want to run a marijuana buissiness on land. Im assuming if your going to sell it and its legal to grow it then youd want alot of land,w hich means youd be growing alot. your telling us then that wed need to have a "secretay" or person to file and keep track of the applications of chemicals used on the crop. use only the most "organic" stuff and use the appropraite ammount specified by the pesticides were using and no mroe then listed as appropriate or safe. These things while running a legitimate buissiness are too much to handle or accomplish? I think if your profiting from growing a crop like weed, these things are not hard to do. you just made them sound way more complicated and pain int eh ass then they are. Lets see how much profit 20 acres of ganja let alone 1000 acres would net you, and your telling us we should be worried about the seceratary we need to hire, and the following the rules of pesticide application safley/ use organics.....I think your trying to scare grows. IF you cannot accomplish this then you shouldent be running a marijuana growin buissness where people are SMOKING YOUR PRODUCT OR EATING IT. regulations are there for our saftey some times, you don't want to be smoking "delta farms" tripple the safe ammount pesticide/fungicide shit unregulated while they dump whatever into the soil and have it infested with spider mites and mildew.....Ill take regulation and profite on this 1....thank you. also, every one knows cash croppers grow for profite, want the huge yeilding strains. Don't think for a second if you are sitting on 2,000 acres of ganja and you get a pest problem you or some one else wouldent do some sketchy shit with pesticides fi you knew you wernt being inspected/regualted and you were sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars worth of ganja. don't you want to know you shit wasnt sprayed with a well know neuro toxin of a pesticed 2 weeks before harvest?????? some times the bud I smoke, I fuckign wonder, did this mother fucker spray shit, maybe this dumb ass dosent know you cant smoke this shit, or it wont just dissapear after you spray it. maybe this asshole saw a spider mite and freaked out and dosed his whole crop in pesticides 2 weeks/1 week before chop and he dosent care because hes not smoking it. you never know unless you personaly know the grower and their practices. smoking bud grown in non organics is one thing, but I don't want to be lighting up bowls of shit that on the back of the pesticed label it says highley toxic, if contact with skin, wash thoroughly and contact poison controll center immediately, do not inhale.

 

[cannabudz]

Hey there Aeronoob,
I think Grapeman was getting at how much more it will cost to run a "government regulated cannabis grow". A personal example: when i first tried pot, i smoked "mexican" smuggled brick weed. Otherwise known as seeded Brown weed. I would find animal hair, mold, string, and other small random garbage in it. It also smelled like it was smuggled over in a dead animal. Yet many years later, i am still alive. I would imagine the weed i smoked from Mexico was not grown or packaged with the end users well being in mind. But if Cannabis was legal meaning what ever Government this happens to is now legally obligated to "Govern it". Now if we had a Government with "organic hippie sluts" in office, we prolly wouldn't worry so much about the regulation that governments install on said new product (cannabis). But the Government that would have had to deal with this new legalization would be the USA. That being said, we all know who pwns the United States Government (Corporate Lobbyist). Call it a Oligarchy if you will.. Know that this privileged Oligarchy uses a Parse to profit off of the American people. Parses by Parse3 and Data corp. and more..
So.., by legalizing it, it would be adding it to the parse. A parse that has been out of their hands (for the most part)... And watching them profit off another suppressed industry and people; is like watching your daughter end up on the golden pole.. /sigh..
If it is legalized and not decriminalized then the people at the top of the parse will endure while the person at the bottom of the parse will suffer (and we all know what Yoda says about suffering).
Cannabis growing has come a long, long way since i first smoked it.. Although I might be a pot snob now, cause i dont just smoke any ones weed anymore.. I like to know the grower or his friends that can speak on the growers behalf. That way I know what i am ingesting. Living in California i have the gift of having many options to choose from.
Fine product, such as cannabis comes from Education and not regulation. The more the growers are educated about how to run clean grows, then the less involvement of products/corporate... and a message to the the entire parse community "Free men stand here".

Cannabudz..

 

[grapeman]

Hey there Aeronoob,
I think Grapeman was getting at how much more it will cost to run a "government regulated cannabis grow". A personal example: when i first tried pot, i smoked "mexican" smuggled brick weed. Otherwise known as seeded Brown weed. I would find animal hair, mold, string, and other small random garbage in it. It also smelled like it was smuggled over in a dead animal. Yet many years later, i am still alive. I would imagine the weed i smoked from Mexico was not grown or packaged with the end users well being in mind. But if Cannabis was legal meaning what ever Government this happens to is now legally obligated to "Govern it". Now if we had a Government with "organic hippie sluts" in office, we prolly wouldn't worry so much about the regulation that governments install on said new product (cannabis). But the Government that would have had to deal with this new legalization would be the USA. That being said, we all know who pwns the United States Government (Corporate Lobbyist). Call it a Oligarchy if you will.. Know that this privileged Oligarchy uses a Parse to profit off of the American people. Parses by Parse3 and Data corp. and more..
So.., by legalizing it, it would be adding it to the parse. A parse that has been out of their hands (for the most part)... And watching them profit off another suppressed industry and people; is like watching your daughter end up on the golden pole.. /sigh..
If it is legalized and not decriminalized then the people at the top of the parse will endure while the person at the bottom of the parse will suffer (and we all know what Yoda says about suffering).
Cannabis growing has come a long, long way since i first smoked it.. Although I might be a pot snob now, cause i dont just smoke any ones weed anymore.. I like to know the grower or his friends that can speak on the growers behalf. That way I know what i am ingesting. Living in California i have the gift of having many options to choose from.
Fine product, such as cannabis comes from Education and not regulation. The more the growers are educated about how to run clean grows, then the less involvement of products/corporate... and a message to the the entire parse community "Free men stand here".

Cannabudz..

We just completed our "Food & Safety" inspection by the USDA. This phony baloney program is to certify our clean food safety practices.

I say phony baloney for a reason. For example, the government deducts points because our reservoirs are not covered. Now these reservoirs are several acres in size and are just irrigation water storage ponds. We irrigate via drip. We get negative points for not erecting roofs over these reservoirs. The government reasons that a flying bird may shit into the water.

What? Wait? Bird shit in the drip irrigation water? You mean this water that drips out onto the ground over other manure we use?

Multiply this stupidity by 100 and you see why anything grown or manufactured under government oversight costs 2 times what competitors from around the world would spend.

The only reason we participate in this program is because Krogers, CostCo and others insist upon this seal of approval. Unless you grow your crop in Mexico or South America. Then they could care less.

 

[binaryfission]

its all about liability. sad.

 

[grapeman]

its all about liability. sad.

Yea - it is sad. to abide by this program and pass this yearly inspection costs us about $200,000 a year. HR hires 3 people plus 2 secretaries just for the constant inspections and reams of paperwork that must be kept on-hand for whenever the inspector wants to drop in and inspect the paperwork, all the ranches and all the cooling facilities.

And this is just ONE government program out of about 15 that we must follow in order to sell table grapes.

Now couple this with the fact that grapes have been grown for thousands of years without ONE documented death from their consumption, and you can see how our own government makes having a business in America next to impossible.

Then, during January thru May, when our grapes come from Chile and Mexico, there is NO government program, allowing producers from those countries to use practically any chemicals and have no bathrooms in the fields for the workers.

Another example is the County health Department. They require us to have on-site a portable toilet for each 20 workers. Not a bad thing really. When we reach about 2,000 workers a day, you can see how this expense adds up. But go to a local little league game at any local park and see that there is usually 1 men's room and 1 women's room at the park. Then count the parents at the park and you will see hundreds of people sharing 1 bathroom. In other words, we have to live by government rules, but the government never lives by their own rules.

For those who think MJ, when legalized will not be subject to all of the above and more is sheer stupidity by most of the posters herein.

 

[In~Plain~Site]

When you take a look at the electoral map, and see just how many districts in Ca. that voted for Obama in '08' actually went Rep. this time.

Head scratcher, is Cali going red?

I think 19 pushed it a tad too far.

 

[binaryfission]

What are the fines like for not having enough bathrooms?

 

[dagnabit]

For those who think MJ, when legalized will not be subject to all of the above and more is sheer stupidity by most of the posters herein.

those who prefer prohibition to regulation deserve the consequences of prohibition.
thinking prison is preferable to regulation is SHEER STUPIDITY!!!!

 

[grapeman]

those who prefer prohibition to regulation deserve the consequences of prohibition.
thinking prison is preferable to regulation is SHEER STUPIDITY!!!!

you shoulda voted then. Or are you outa state too.

 

[binaryfission]

Yo grape, what are the fines for non-compliance. Can you circumvent the system like early tobacco farmers or BP? Pay the fine instead of complying???

 

[grapeman]

Yo grape, what are the fines for non-compliance. Can you circumvent the system like early tobacco farmers or BP? Pay the fine instead of complying???

Fines differ from "red tagged" (cannot sell your product) to monetary in the extreme. As for the USDA food safety program I refer to above, the fine is that large retailers will not buy your product in a tight market limiting our outlets.

 

[Thundurkel]

Well Grapeman I just wanted to thank you for opening my eyes with a few others here to vote NO on 19 and we got the win!

 

[JJScorpio]

Well Grapeman I just wanted to thank you for opening my eyes with a few others here to vote NO on 19 and we got the win!

What is it exactly you think you won? In case you don't know, let me tell you. Not only did the antis vote down legalization, but they voted in Steve Cooley. Congratulations on your win.

In case you're still so giddy from "your win" let me tell you what that means.

Steve Cooley has vowed to take down dispensories and growers that supply these dispensories. Now, because "you won", as you say, instead of spending his time fighting 19 and the commercial grows that would come along with it, he can now concentrate his time and effort full time on the dispensories and growers. Your "win" took care of the first part of his battle for him. Now he can concentrate entirely on busting dispensories..... And if you think Obama vowing to stay out of the States business with the Feds and leave it up to the States is going to help you. Think again. If Cooley asks them to help they'll be more than happy to..... After all, it's up to the State.....

Congratulations on "your win"........

 

[mr noodles]

i wonder if the dea pull a massive , but i mean something huge.....if you think they are not covering their bases by now on all the coop and all....you dream in Technicolor big time....

i smell something terrible in the air for the mmj ....they interpreted the no vote as a green light for repression , dont get fooled on that .all the media crap all over the world in loop on news chanel was like teasing the cops 24/24, from all the people who said they have no health problem at all to the doctor who said they gave mmj card no regard the health condition...for cops its pure provocation and admission of 'wrong doing '

i just hope i am wrong because it would be a serious setback for the whole movement .

dont forget you will have sarah palin or obama again in 2012 ...like shit or shit ...

we will pray for you .

 

[binaryfission]

What is it exactly you think you won? In case you don't know, let me tell you. Not only did the antis vote down legalization, but they voted in Steve Cooley. Congratulations on your win.

In case you're still so giddy from "your win" let me tell you what that means.

Steve Cooley has vowed to take down dispensories and growers that supply these dispensories. Now, because "you won", as you say, instead of spending his time fighting 19 and the commercial grows that would come along with it, he can now concentrate his time and effort full time on the dispensories and growers. Your "win" took care of the first part of his battle for him. Now he can concentrate entirely on busting dispensories..... And if you think Obama vowing to stay out of the States business with the Feds and leave it up to the States is going to help you. Think again. If Cooley asks them to help they'll be more than happy to..... After all, it's up to the State.....

Congratulations on "your win"........

I love this post. But instead of being divisive lets focus on what we as people can change. Less than half of the 18-34 year olds in cali are registered to vote. I doubt the numbers are much better nationwide.

If these fucking no votes actually voted, instead of staying home Cooley shouldn't have won.

Or are you, the no voter, saying you voted no and for cooley? Are you implying that you want full prohibition and the price that comes with it?

really....?

 

[In~Plain~Site]

I love how it's all or nothing with some of you people, some folks have other issues that concern them that don't revolve around cannabis and for that they're being crucified for voting their own way?

When you grow up, you get smarter and become conservative on many issues and MJ becomes an innocent bystander as a result, shouldn't be that way, but it is what it is.

Conservatives grow/smoke weed as well.

Ask me how I know

 

[crazybear]

Ummm no. Those folks at the farmers market have their produce USDA inspected BEFORE they can sell. If they aren't doing that, they are breaking the law. Not a big deal for a box of berries, but try doing that with an oz of pot and not pay big brother his share.

That's your government in action.

Where does the usda inspect at farmer's markets cali? I doubt very much that every farmers market country wide the usda inspects anything , plus the usda is not inspecting much anyway . I would rather have pot legal pay taxes or whatever than worry about the possibilities now. Off the subject but it's not cali law about beer & wine, it's federal law you can brew up to I believe 400 gal. year per person, over 21 in your house but you can't sell any, give away yes.

 

[dagnabit]

Where does the usda inspect at farmer's markets cali? I doubt very much that every farmers market country wide the usda inspects anything , plus the usda is not inspecting much anyway . I would rather have pot legal pay taxes or whatever than worry about the possibilities now. Off the subject but it's not cali law about beer & wine, it's federal law you can brew up to I believe 400 gal. year per person, over 21 in your house but you can't sell any, give away yes.

i sell organic heirloom tomatoes all summer long at farmers markets..

ive been inspected by a governmental official exactly zero times in 13 years and 5 states....

now i did run into a saltwater products permit problem once selling live blue crabs and fresh gulf shrimp for a 700% markup in nashville.

 

[grapeman]

Where does the usda inspect at farmer's markets cali? I doubt very much that every farmers market country wide the usda inspects anything , plus the usda is not inspecting much anyway . I would rather have pot legal pay taxes or whatever than worry about the possibilities now. Off the subject but it's not cali law about beer & wine, it's federal law you can brew up to I believe 400 gal. year per person, over 21 in your house but you can't sell any, give away yes.

The farmer john who shows up with his van or u-haul full of produce, DID NOT GROW the product. They all lie.

They back their u-haul up to the rear dock at my shed, or others (where all the product is already inspected by usda or local county inspectors), pay me cash for my #2 quality product and drive down to santa monica (or where ever) and tell you fools they are organic farmers.

It's a joke really.

 

[Fear]