Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

[DankSide]

One question, Pharmaceuticals have MORE or LESS power to sell more of their life destroying pills? Oh, you didn't want to see them creating warehouses (which are already created and profiting anyway) to produce mass amounts so more people could have access?

this 5x5 area being complained about obviously would have been changed soon enough! At least it could have been a stepping stone to better laws, now it could be a long wait to even get back to having 5x5 accepted - we'll see!

 

[CaptainTrips]

i do agree on the fact prop 19 was perfect at all but it would have provided a safe ground to fight for more .

the backdrop is the vote is a vote for enforcing the existing law and nowhere i see a 5 x 5 being legal if you dont have a mmj card

maybe not prison (cali prison are full) but in the legal system , potential lost of job is still the reality , seizing of asset and all ...

and i am more than afraid for the mmj system , too much of it was exposed to think it will be tolerated anymore in is integrity .

sadly you can expect long legal battle over new regulation while dea screw the whole thing up .

be positive for 2012 in col , yes but be realistic and lucid about the mandate the law enforcement received last night

a first in the world aka a voted mandate against legalization of marijuana and support for law enforcement all this in a democratic answer ...try to fight that now...

i pray for cali

i dont wish these things to happen but logic is telling me this is very bad

No its not the first, Nevada had a legalization effort just 4 years ago, and I don't think that set them backwards, could be wrong I guess...

 

[Hydrosun]

this 5x5 area being complained about obviously would have been changed soon enough! At least it could have been a stepping stone to better laws, now it could be a long wait to even get back to having 5x5 accepted - we'll see!

Well if the FUCKERS hadn't written that in there they may have had support from current growers instead of the animosity we saw.

These CA growers who voted no and campaigned for NO already don't give two shits about being illegal These growers are outlaws for many reasons and they are all my brothers and sisters.

It was a huge steaming pile of shit that people expected them to eat to get this small stepping stone. As a group these people don't seek public approval, recognition, or regulation of their lives. Instead of writing a law that would legalize CA growers prop 19 authors chose to write a law that would VALIDATE the felony status of the very growers being asked to pass the scam.

Once the chosen few had their warehouses and ALL the rest of the CA growers were confirmed State and Federal felons, how soon do you think the powers that be would expand their legal 5x5 gardens? As we've SEEN posted 1000x anybody can grow enough for themselves in 5x5; So BigCana happily lobbies for more competition?

Unequal treatment and abusive proposed taxes and regulations killed this bill. In fact if the 19 over reach hand not been on the ballot we would probably have 3 more med states today. And that is the real travesty of Prop 19.

 

[mr noodles]

No its not the first, Nevada had a legalization effort just 4 years ago, and I don't think that set them backwards, could be wrong I guess...

problem is the California medical program was exposed for what it is...perfect .but now exposed as an hypocrite system

but the whole world know the cali program is kinda joke ...so how long before some fucktard use that against the system and manage to make their point .

they can safely claim that the mmj program dont work properly if a mmj card is bough only for money .

majority of mmj in cali are in perfect health...how long before they turn the program upside down ?

while you fight in court to reverse...peoples get busted big time

the no legal win , so pot is illegal and with a mmj system exposed like cali was in the recent month.....the no can only bring problem....

be realistic , its going to get ugly and very soon .

 

[kmk420kali]

What no more circuitous death threats KmK?

Come on, let me troll you harder... you're reactions are just feeding me and making me happy.

All of you, you just kept responding to each other about how great prop 19 was and shutting anyone who disagreed with you down... now look at you. For all your hard work, all your bullying and all those pointless words and emotions... nothing. How does it feel?

Feels great on this side

Not only are you stupid...but you are also a liar-- I have made no threats at all--
But...isn't trolling against TOU??

 

[Yes4Prop215]

Hey the good news COOLEY WASNT ELECTED AG!!!

we now have Kamala Harris. who is one of the most liberal DAs in the world....seriously you can be caught shooting someone red handed and probably still have your cases dropped.

Let alone marijuana offenses......growers should be safe for a while under Kamala Harris she is a softy when it comes to enforcing laws...

so enough of the fear mongering "i hope you get raided...you are the reason people go to jail...." NOPE NOT TRUE...

people smoking ounces and runnig small personal grows pretty much have free reign in california...keep your heads up you can still grow and smoke in relative peace

 

[mean mr.mustard]

But what about the taxes? Think of the taxes!!

 

[Batboy]

I know you are upset, but NO ONE in CA will go to jail now that wouldn't if 19 had passed.

19 was for the OZ or less small time smoker ...

Just a minor correction, Prop 19 would have legalized possessing marijuana, which is defined to mean all parts of the plant, including resins and extractions. The decriminalization bill that Arnold signed and goes into effect 1-1-11 is not so broad. Even after 1-1-11, any amount of hash or similar resin/extract will subject you to the possibility of 1 year in jail and a $500 fine.

They may not have the time, money or room in prison to lock people up for a few grams of hash, but be aware that it's still on the books. . .

 

[ddrew]

people smoking ounces and runnig small personal grows pretty much have free reign in california...keep your heads up you can still grow and smoke in relative peace

Well that's just great, meanwhile the rest of us(world outside CA) will continue keeping our heads down as it will be a long time now before any of us have a chance at growing in relative peace.

 

[WasntMe]

Prohibition: The Greatest American Blunder
By Jason @beertutor.com
http://www.beertutor.com/articles/prohibition.shtml

Killing the Indians and taking their land was the most evil thing Americans have ever done. The prohibition of alcohol was by far the stupidest. In this article we are going to take a look at the history of prohibition, discuss its effects, and explain why it is one of the dumbest things the United States has ever done.

Why Prohibition? Groups such as the Anti-Saloon League and the Women's Christian Temperance Union were able to successfully convince people that alcohol was the cause of a variety of social problems. Below are some of the prevaling reasons why this national tragedy occurred.


Health: People believed that cirrhosis of the liver and other alcohol related deaths could be prevented. However, in 1931, Dr. Snell of the Mayo Clinic stated: "We know now that cirrhosis occurs in only 4 per cent of alcoholic individuals." He went on to say that alcohol related deaths were only responsible for less than 1.5% of total deaths at the time. The country would soon see a dramatic increase in alcohol related deaths and injuries after Prohibition went into effect.
Worker Absenteeism and Performance: Industrialists were concerned with worker absentee and performance problems that were blamed on over-indulgence in the saloons at night.
Family Life: Proponents argued that alcohol was causing rampant domestic violence and many families were without a father because they spent all of their nights drunk in saloons. As a result, a large percentage of reformers were women.
Germany and the War: Many people believed that drinking beer funneled money into Germany who was our enemy at the time. They also argued that available grains should be used to feed the troops rather than make alcohol.
Saloons and Crime: Proponents argued that there was increasing lawlessness and crime in the saloons of America. While the saloons would disappear, they would be replaced by another institution in far greater numbers.
In the United States, Prohibition was put into effect by the Eighteenth Amendment to the Constitution (ratified January 16, 1919) and the Volstead Act (passed October 28, 1919). The Volstead Act was written by Andrew John Volstead, who was an absolute teetotaler (non-drinker). Prohibition began on January 16, 1920, when the Eighteenth Amendment went into effect. It banned the manufacture and sale of beverages with an alcohol content exceeding 0.5%. In some ways, the Eighteenth Amendment and the Volstead Act were largely symbolic as prohibitionists had already banned alcohol in 26 out of 48 states before Prohibition went into effect.

Prohibition was supposed to usher in an era of economic and moral prosperity, however, the nation would soon discover that their efforts had the exact opposite effect.

The most immediate effect was the destruction of many jobs resulting from the closure of saloons, breweries, distilleries, and other alcohol related establishments. In addition, the government lost $500 million dollars per year in tax revenue. From the start, an environment of economic prosperity had not been created.

Because of our European heritage, Americans are drinkers and it has always been an important part of our culture. So naturally, people were going to find a way to drink anyway. Speakeasies, which were essentially illegal saloons, began popping up all over the place. The name speakeasy came about because patrons had to speak easy convincing the doorman that they were not a dry agent in order to get in. Dry agents did not have forced entry rights at the time. Because they were small, speakeasies actually outnumbered the number of saloons that existed before Prohibition. People partied in record numbers and actually consumed more alcohol than before the "dry" days, hence, this time period was known as the "Roaring Twenties".

Of course, the availability of alcohol had dropped dramatically forcing people to find alternate methods to get their drink. This lead to large-scale underground manufacture of moonshine, "bathtub gin", and other dangerous substances that caused blindness, paralysis, and even death in many cases. Between 1920 and 1925 the death toll from liquor poisoning rose from 1,064 to 4,154 deaths.

Alcohol was smuggled over the Canadian border and medicinal whiskey prescriptions (which were allowed for certain patients) increased 400%. The scarceness of alcoholic beverages led to a dramatic increase in price, for example, a beer typically cost about 80 cents - the equivalent of $8 in today's money. "Near Beer" became popular because it was legal (under 0.5% alcohol) and could be easily spiked with spirits to create a full strength beer.

Prohibition promised a decrease in crime, emptied prisons, and lower taxes. During the 19th and early 20th centuries, the United States had already seen a gradual decrease in the rates of serious crimes, however, Prohibition immediately reversed this trend. Crime increased 24 percent between 1920 and 1921. Homicide rates nearly doubled during the next decade. Prisons were overcrowded and taxes were raised in order to support an increasing need for police officers and prisons. Total federal expenditures on prisons increased more than 1,000% during Prohibition. Despite increased budgets for prisons and police, crime continued to increase and prison overcrowding worsened. Police department's increased focus on rising drinking crimes, diverted attention away from the enforcement and investigation of other types of crime which also increased.

Of course, Prohibition also gave birth to gangs and the mafia who smuggled alchohol into the United States, bribed public officials, and often resorted to violent crime to achieve their goals. The most notorious gangster was Al Capone who was a bootlegger operating out of Chicago. This new element was infinitely worse than the unwanted behavior found in saloons that Prohibition was supposed to cure.

In 1927, nine New York lawyers created an organization called "The Voluntary Committee of Lawyers" (VCL) and their purpose was to fight for repeal of the 18th Amendment and the Volstead Act. Additional repeal groups such as "Americans Against the Prohibition Amendment" and the "Women's Organization for National Prohibition Reform" came about and popular support for repeal grew rapidly.

1929 Stock market crashed followed by the great depression and alcohol related crime continued to increase.

In the 1932 presidential election the Republicans nominated Herbert Hoover who was in favor of maintaining prohibition. The Democrats nominated the governor of New York, Franklin D. Roosevelt, who pledged to repeal it. FDR won the election and in 1933 federal prohibition was repealed. Oddly enough, Utah was the 36th state to ratify the 21st Amendment, which called for the repeal, and was the last ratification needed to put the repeal into effect.

The battle had not been completely won as there were state laws that had to be contended with. Most states got rid of their prohibition laws, but Kansas, Missouri, and Oklahoma kept their prohibition laws in place the longest. Kansas ended statewide prohibition in 1948, Oklahoma in 1959, and Missouri was the last in 1966.

As one would expect, the crime rate immediately began to drop after repeal and continued to do so throughout the '30s. There were, however, lingering scars left from the 13 years of prohibition, particularly in the brewing industry. Less than half of the breweries survived the ordeal and did so by converting their production to other products such as ice cream, root beer, and syrup. Many more went under during the Great Depression and the ones that did make it were cranking out inexpensive, watered down lagers that would become synonymous with "American Beer". These were basically the only beer options for the next 50 years until the microbrewing revolution began in the early 1980's.

So what did our country learn from the "noble experiment"? Unfortunately, not very much. The USA has been fighting a losing war on drugs for decades and its symptoms are remarkably similar to the effects of Prohibition. History has proven that attempts to legislate morality by banning institutions such as drugs, alcohol, prostitution, and gambling, are ineffective. People will continue to do what they want to do whether it is legal or not, and the effects of prohibition generally lead to worse conditions than they are designed to prevent.

A man named Georg Wilhelm Hegel once said, "We learn from history that we do not learn from history".

 

[Yes4Prop215]

Well if the FUCKERS hadn't written that in there they may have had support from current growers instead of the animosity we saw.

These CA growers who voted no and campaigned for NO already don't give two shits about being illegal These growers are outlaws for many reasons and they are all my brothers and sisters.

It was a huge steaming pile of shit that people expected them to eat to get this small stepping stone. As a group these people don't seek public approval, recognition, or regulation of their lives. Instead of writing a law that would legalize CA growers prop 19 authors chose to write a law that would VALIDATE the felony status of the very growers being asked to pass the scam.

EXACTLY!!

DIck lee tried to push this past without the support of the growing community...It backfired on him...and now he knows on the next bill he WILL NEED THE SUPPORT OF THE GROWERS...because the anti MMJ republicans are making a pretty tough stand. so hes gonna have to cater to the triangle and bay area growers interests...what that specifcally entails im not sure yet...but something along the lines of garunteeing that momnpops could sell the dispensaries at a sustainable market value (2k min per indoor lb)..MMJ prices wont crash to 50 an OZ and increasing the personal grow space to 10x10 would definately help get more growers like myself on the bandwagon for 2012...

 

[Yes4Prop215]

Well that's just great, meanwhile the rest of us(world outside CA) will continue keeping our heads down as it will be a long time now before any of us have a chance at growing in relative peace.

thats not CAs fault....marijuana isnt legal in CA and we still doing our thing....instead of complaining about it on ICmag go out and lobby for medical marijuana in your state..join your local movement...or just grow a small personal grow, take precautions, and even in a super strict state you still shouldnt have problems if you keep your shit wired.......shit check my IKEA stealth grows i designed that shit specifically for growing in less than ideal conditions....QP per closet every 2-3 months with a tiny power bill and good stealth....perfect for non med states...no way your getting caught..

 

[Greyskull]

I read also this morning that Schwarzenegger has baned the use of welfare cards at mmj dispenseries. I guess the poor people will have to go get riped off by one of those "OUTLAWS", If they can afford the price that is.

the card ranges associatted with those govt issued welfare debit cards have been flagged for non use at businesses with certain SIC codes.

thank those poor fucking people getting the welfare cards that have been using them at the casino!!! one bad apple (or several) ruins the whole bunch. give someone an inch they take everything that inch is touching. THEY FUCKED THEMSELVES....

just like with 60% of registered voters NOT voting...

 

[medmaker420]

Well that's just great, meanwhile the rest of us(world outside CA) will continue keeping our heads down as it will be a long time now before any of us have a chance at growing in relative peace.

boohoo lol

ANY state or country or province can and COULD legalize in their own area. Why is it that people sit and wait for others to accomplish something in hopes of it just "spreading to other places" lol.

I know we are all potheads but we really can't all be that lazy.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Here's an excerpt from my local newspaper:

"That is a very very strong indication [prop.19 failing] that californians have awakened to the problems of legalizing marijuana. I think for too long marijuana has been equated as nothing more than a can of beer in the minds of many. We understand now the importance of getting out the message to everyone about the consequences of marijuana." -Marsha Saben, Californianas for Drug Free Youth.

Hmmm....nothing about 1 oz. Nothing about 5x5. Nothing about dry counties. All were going to hear is marijuana is dangerous and that Califronians don't want it NOW or EVER.


At least Cooley and Whitman didn't get elected...

 

[ddrew]

boohoo lol

ANY state or country or province can and COULD legalize in their own area. Why is it that people sit and wait for others to accomplish something in hopes of it just "spreading to other places" lol.

I know we are all potheads but we really can't all be that lazy.

You really don't understand?

CA has been a trend setting state for a long, long time, fashion, music, progressive thinking, etc...
They are like the cool kid in highschool that everyone else takes their cues from.
The message the cool kid sent out to everyone yesterday was that MJ should be illegal.
Watch and see now how nothing gets off the ground in other states for a long time.

 

[draco]

regardless, all are illegal in the eyes of national law. THAT hasn't changed.

we MUST be doing SOMETHING right. it's a fucking BADGE OF HONOR.

 

[WasntMe]

Well that's just great, meanwhile the rest of us(world outside CA) will continue keeping our heads down as it will be a long time now before any of us have a chance at growing in relative peace.

You must realize that some of these people do NOT have any form of global concern or sense of obligation to a global movement ....Their concern is only their own situation & the movement of their product.


The way I see it, If someone on these forums has shown that they have no concern or respect for the community and are only interested in helping themselves .... then I feel NO obligation to help them in any way, or even be associated with them, on these forums. No need to argue with them. I just note their names and add them to my ignore list.

It's a 2way street if we want it to be.

If you are not interested in helping the community, the community doesn't have to be interested in helping you.

Don't get it twisted though .. people have differences in opinion and that is fine. But there is a big difference in different opinions and blatant selfish profiteering at the expense of others.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

EXACTLY!!

DIck lee tried to push this past without the support of the growing community...It backfired on him...and now he knows on the next bill he WILL NEED THE SUPPORT OF THE GROWERS...because the anti MMJ republicans are making a pretty tough stand. so hes gonna have to cater to the triangle and bay area growers interests...what that specifcally entails im not sure yet...but something along the lines of garunteeing that momnpops could sell the dispensaries at a sustainable market value (2k min per indoor lb)..MMJ prices wont crash to 50 an OZ and increasing the personal grow space to 10x10 would definately help get more growers like myself on the bandwagon for 2012...

Yeah because growers make up 1/4 of the voters in the election... do you even comprehend what you write? Growers and dealers make up such a tiny minority that isn't even factored. The high turn out of Republicans and Teabaggers is the reason why 19 got shot down. 19 could have said no limits, no regulations, no liscensing fees and it still would have lost. Get real, you guys had no effect on it. What we saw last night is that the majority of conservatives are brainwashed by the media/govt. and still think marijuana is some evil harmful substance that should never be allowed to be consumed by responsible adults, end of story.

 

[Chronic Future]

Plain and simple here folks make sure to buy your medical cannabis from counties that support your views and boycott the ones that don't http://vote.sos.ca.gov/maps/ballot-measures/19/

True that I got to get the fuck out of sac to much like Texas imo. peace