Vegan Organics with Professor Matt Rize

[MrFista]

What serious veganic mite treatment did you use.

They do look awful. I'll accept they were from an external source and mites really are the apocalypse in miniature, so... show us how you can make em grow.

 

[Microbeman]

That I have not said anything about BioCanna unless specifically asked. Can't move the thread now... and this is not the "100% organics soil" forum... technically I don't even grow in soil. But I do brew teas and use certified organic products (or sourced locally from friends ranch).
I should have know that the results were too good/instant to be true* organics...

And I'll go even farther by saying my organic credentials are on par with anyone here. I've eaten all organic since age 12, and spent many years as a vegetarian. I only shop at the farmer's market and the local co-op. I have no idea what a commercial grocery store looks like anymore, and fast food is a distant memory. I only eat meat from local ranches. I drive an effing hybrid. I host a CSA at my house, to support my local organic farmers. I compost everything from the garden that is not smoked. And I compost my ashes too I moved down the street from my job so I only drive on the weekends. I buy my milk in glass jars and return them to the dairy. I was the chef at a vegetarian/sustainable seafood restaurant. My college was literally an organic farm. I could go on, but won't as this idea: that my thread does not belong here because BioCanna is certified organic but not 100%, is way beneath you.

*another loosely defined word that I'm suggesting means 100%

post edit: I haven't even talked about my system yet... and you are still trying give me the boot? I can keep sending those who are interested in Vegan Organics with Professor Matt Rize: Plant Based Organic Nutrition Indoors using Soil-less Media to my thread on rollitup.org ... but gypsy might not like that.

Dear sir, I was speaking of BioCanna only, the fact that you have admitted that there 'might be' problems with it being 'organic' as you originally thought and that you continued to basically recommend it without a caveat. Where in my statement did I say anything about giving you the boot? The organic soil statement was in reference to Biocanna.

 

[Microbeman]

By Rize
Is the line between soil/soil-less fuzzy? ie "for a year or more" Or more specifically, what are you using as the qualification to be "soil".

Perhaps you are not familiar with keeping soils alive indoors for years unmixed. (requires minimum critical mass)

 

[jaykush]

Details: These clones came to me and had effing "super" spider mites. I handled that in a less than ideal way*

if you want i can give you a veganic recipe to get rid of mites fast for pennies.

 

[Microbeman]

I am officially and openly waiting for permission from god (aka microbeman) to start talking about how I grow. He has asked me to not...

On the contrary, I am waiting for an answer from you concerning the points I made about the Biocanna website statements and the restriction from OMRI. You said you required time to respond. I have no problem with 'no animal' based amendments. CT Guy at KIS has been practicing this for years.

Is your system/program strictly about Biocanna? If this is the case well then....try EJ

 

[Microbeman]

Matt Rize

It's a relatively new product but Sun Gro Horticulture now has an organic Sunshine Mix #4 and comes in a tan color bale vs. the black bales of their conventional product line.

Same price per c.f. at reputable wholesalers, i.e. < $27.00 for the 3.8 c.f. compressed bales.

CC

Weird! If memory serves, SunshineMix #4 has been available in British Columbia since at least the mid 90s. Does it not have a shot of chemical wetting agent?

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Weird! If memory serves, SunshineMix #4 has been available in British Columbia since at least the mid 90s. Does it not have a shot of chemical wetting agent?

MM

This is their 'organic' version of the old standby product, Sunshine Mix #4

I'm not familiar enough with this new version but on Sun Gro's other organic lines they use organic yucca extract as a wetting agent.

CC

 

[Microbeman]

Oh

 

[Clackamas Coot]

MM

Here's a link to the different Sunshine Mixes - both conventional as well as organic. I was wrong - Sun Gro doesn't have just an organic Sunshine Mix #4 but it appears from the link that they've released versions for Sunshine Mix #1 thru #4

In comparing the differences, the conventional product lines contain a 'lour long-lasting wetting agent' and the organic lines contain 'an organic wetting agent' which in their Sunshine Organic Growers Mix (and seedling mix) used to declare that it was organic yucca extract. That statement doe not appear on the Sunshine Mixes - not sure what that means if anything.

CC

 

[Matt Rize]

Thanks brah

Thanks brah

if you want i can give you a veganic recipe to get rid of mites fast for pennies.

if you start getting random vegan organic questions from new members it is because i'm sending anti-bottle rollitupers your way.

 

[Matt Rize]

Phyllosphere and Cannabis

Phyllosphere and Cannabis

When I water the young ladies I make sure I've applied all of these inoculants on the leaves (phyllosphere) and soil (actually soil-less IMO). I'm no expert on phyllosphere microflora... and would love to be taken to school on Cannabis specific data relating to this idea.

Has anyone here studied this?

 

[Yankee Grower]

So again, WTF is the point? Vegan soil. Pfffft. Only man can dream of such idealism. Nature doesn't care.

Couldn't have said it better.

Has anyone here studied this?

I have not studied it but doubt you'll find any cannabis specific info. While researching 1 project did come across some info about leaf microbial cultures in general. When I see peeps treating plants with stuff like neem, etc. for PM and then not inoculating the leaves with a 'healthy' culture I shake my head a bit.

would love to hear the thoughts on using calcium peroxide
YK would u consider it a good alternative to h202?
bottom watering maybe

For clarification I do wanna say I don't use H2O2 and no one I know does except for Tom. As for the sterilization thing Solvay recommends something like straight 35% and hot water to sterlize juice box containers or something like that. The calcium peroxide was an experiment and actually done by REv on material I got. From what I remember it releases O2 and not H202 except when pH gets really low. It's like the lower the pH the higher the concentration of H2O2 released. I think REv said it lasted like 6 weeks in his grow but since he was partly dependent on the Ca in the product to buffer the mix he had a problem when it was used up. Also that for what it was supposed to do...introduce O2...it worked great and especially low in the container. There was a noticeable increase in growth and general vigor. I believe he does not use it any more nor does he recommend it. Pretty sure if you toss some calcium peroxide in a very acid solution it will simply fizz out. It's VERY alkaline and a small amount in water has a strong impact of solution pH.

Darc Mind...in regards to bottom watering it's a powder.

Spurr - I posted a pic of that male in regards to discussion about soil porosity as your comments did get me thinking about things...as your comments usually do...lol.

 

[Matt Rize]

Vegan does not equal BioCanna

Vegan does not equal BioCanna

On the contrary, I am waiting for an answer from you concerning the points I made about the Biocanna website statements and the restriction from OMRI. You said you required time to respond. I have no problem with 'no animal' based amendments. CT Guy at KIS has been practicing this for years.

Is your system/program strictly about Biocanna? If this is the case well then....try EJ

Vegan means vegan. And the reason I call this Vegan Organics with Prof Rize is to keep it short. 'Plant based organic nutrition indoors in soil-less mix using teas and bottled food and a little slow release animal organics' is too long for a thread title.

The greatest thing about this thread is that you guys are already on-board with plant based nutrition. That was a surprise.

The way I grow is not strictly about BioCanna, but I have significantly better (smoke quality) results from using it... and I have tried the EJ, Botanicare, GO, and everything else available here. I am currently testing BioBizz as well, but they are on the OR list of unregistered nutes. The BIG thing about Bio Canna is the combo of the BTPlus and the food. They work amazingly together. This whole caught up on the word vegan thing is silly. BTPlus is not vegan, and yet is designed specifically to be used with BioCanna vegan nutes. This just shows how non-nazi I am about the term vegan. 100% plant based is arguably non-natural. Even when I was a vegan I ate honey.

With regards to BioCanna using synthetic micronutrients, that is no surprise. They are a chem company at heart. I've been able to use the BioCanna to recover from deficiencies, and it worked way too fast. Yet, it is certified organic. This means that less than 5% of the mix is synthetic, and I would guess it is more like less than 1%. Still, that sucks in terms of 100% organic.

I would have a hard time believing that a small amount of synthetic micros is going to have a noticeable affect on the smoke quality. And my soil-less mix is designed specifically to allow me to force advanced chlorosis, which I would argue is the major benefit of soil-less over soil. But we don't need to go there in this sub-forum. Possibly my soil-less mix needs the instantly available micros due to the fact that it is far from a true "soil".

Is there a "soil-less plant based organics" sub-forum somewhere? jk, LOL

 

[DARC MIND]

matt
i think most who foliar spray ther plants enjoy the benefits of a healthy phyllosphere
heres a neat read i think ull dig, the whole sfi approach imo is worth reading.
http://www.soilfoodweb.com/sfi_approach3.html#Foliarfood
click on how does the foliar food web affect plants.
personally i see no reason to foliar with mycorrhizal inoculants and would think ull save a lot of money if u stuck with just proper ACT, made with casting or compost and a few plnt meals.
thers a few kick ass links posted in the first few pages about fermented plant extracts, lactobacillus culture and culturing beneficial indigenous or forest microbes. all imo work just as good &or better then most botlled products.
fermented nettle, alfalfa/molasses tea, ACT made with ewc,seaweed extract and LB cultures are a few phyllosphere enhancers i use

 

[guest2012y]

Such a lame post. The baby picture was the day I got them, not vegan at that point. No autoflower comments...?

The second picture is after two weeks of serious treatment to get rid of mites. Considering... they look decent. You see how the leaves point up? that is good... and the fact that I put babies into 5 gallon buckets, and then did my treatment shows my experience and confidence in my abilities. I would argue that my girls point up more than yours, but that would be as lame as the 'original' post to which I am responding. I do have concerns about this round, as I've already overfed too much, should have not used the food on top of the tea. And the real concern is that the strain is dead, the breeder let it go because it has autoflowered. BUT I have kept it in veg.

Mites are the easiest pest to rid yourself of in an organic way. I would also say that it's type depending on how the new growth shoots out in most gardens. My leaves lay flat to fully utilize the light as they should. Those pics are in veg. with a combo of MH and HPS light...both enhanced bulbs. Then again I'm running 5k..lots of light. These plants are as happy as plants can be. Flowering cycle begins today...I'll keep you all updated. Never know what could happen.
Autoflowers suck IMO....played with them some years ago..almost worthless.
I would say some intense MH light and some clever trimming may promote new growth in which to get a cut...or hit her with pollen from any available male. Those F1's would carry that trait over in seed.

 

[Matt Rize]

thx, it won't let me +rep ya right now

thx, it won't let me +rep ya right now

matt
i think most who foliar spray ther plants enjoy the benefits of a healthy phyllosphere
heres a neat read i think ull dig, the whole sfi approach imo is worth reading.
http://www.soilfoodweb.com/sfi_approach3.html#Foliarfood
click on how does the foliar food web affect plants.
personally i see no reason to foliar with mycorrhizal inoculants and would think ull save a lot of money if u stuck with just proper ACT, made with casting or compost and a few plnt meals.
thers a few kick ass links posted in the first few pages about fermented plant extracts, lactobacillus culture and culturing beneficial indigenous or forest microbes. all imo work just as good &or better then most botlled products.
fermented nettle, alfalfa/molasses tea, ACT made with ewc,seaweed extract and LB cultures are a few phyllosphere enhancers i use

great contribution. thanks again. i will be dropping inoculants out of the system, but i've been getting them for free for testing so why not use em. I don't use these inoculants specifically on the phyllosphere, just getting them wet while doing my normal watering.

 

[Matt Rize]

So your saying I should make seeds?

So your saying I should make seeds?

I would say some intense MH light and some clever trimming may promote new growth in which to get a cut...or hit her with pollen from any available male. Those F1's would carry that trait over in seed.

very interesting idea about making some seeds. i don't even have a for sure answer on the genetics of blackberry kush. i've found multiple people who claim to know the lineage.

 

[Yankee Grower]

I would have a hard time believing that a small amount of synthetic micros is going to have a noticeable affect on the smoke quality.

It's the micronutrients, more specifically trace elements, that can have the strongest impact on smoke quality especially if used heavily late in flower. Late applications of Mg are also a no-no in this regard.

Then there's the difference between bottle feeding throughout flower and building soil from the beginning with minimal nute applications except stuff like mild teas.

 

[guest2012y]

Making seeds would carry both the traits of the parents in equal proportions in the F1 generation..(someone correct me if I'm wrong) The next generation of F2's would be the hodge podge to pick through. But those F1's will give you more auto flowers in seed to play with....but I've never understood why people want to mess auto's...yeah I know why they do,but it's still silly.

 

[Yankee Grower]

personally i see no reason to foliar with mycorrhizal inoculants and would think ull save a lot of money if u stuck with just proper ACT, made with casting or compost and a few plnt meals.

Agree with that. I was not referring to using bottled products but live homemade brews and should have been clearer.