Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

[IGotTheCottons]

Again this proves my point about the age difference in supporters. College? What the, so many years ago that I don't want to admit. Jobs? When you are old with experience you can get a job. The system does ruin lives, but this is not the answer. Just wait two more years, and you will have a better bill. That's it, two little years. That is only half of your bachelor's degree right? 2012 will see Nevada, california, oregon, washington, and colorado to vote to legalize. This was the wrong bill, on the wrong year. Richard lee was told not to do it this year. Obviously he did not listen. that is why he has not raised the money that he thought he was going to. All of the big players will be out for 2012. I hope this does not pass. that way there will actually be a sensible bill. All of the finacial heavy hitters are already gearing up for 2012. It will be the year to watch. Not this year.

I'm not old as fuck... But I'm not all that young, either... I've been in the work force for 16 years...

So you mean to say that lives should continue to be ruined, all in the HOPES that a better bill will come along?

In politics, nothing is guaranteed.

Where are your sources showing that 2012 is going to be the year? You keep saying it, but you're not posting anything to back it up. So why should we believe you?

Also, most reputable companies won't hire you with a drug charge on your record... And not everyone goes to college right out of HS... In case you didn't know. A large percentage of people in school are 30+.

What I am seeing is a bunch of fatties who have never done hard time are afraid they are going to have to actually learn how to work.

Weak and/or selfish people make me ill.

I hope that's not in reference to my post. I've been working for most of my life, lol.

u make blanket statement like where behind on our politics wrong I have been following everything about this since its inception. You can stand by your inaccurate facts but the truth is the older gen is behind this bill. There has been 20 threads just like this one and all of the fact have been discussed it detail you guys that are voting no just wont listen to these facts. You tell me whats wrong with that picture. There is absolutely nothing wrong with voting yes on this bill and then voting on a bill that suits more people's needs later if and when that happens. You guys dont care if people are incarcerated you just want what u what and could careless about the people in jail. Im speechless that we have come to a point where we would vote no on anything that move the process forward. I can only hope that people will do the right thing.

Likewise. It blows my mind that people are actually in favor of making smokers criminals. It's so... Archaic...

So when I look at this pole and the people that vote YES... does that mean you guys think this bill is perfect ? I voted YES BUT WISH I WAS VOTING ON A BETTER BILL . But you people that voted straight YES think this bill is just right and just what you would want with no changes ? wow surprising.

The bill isn't perfect, but it's not horrendous, either. I am in favor of people, of age, being allowed to legally use cannabis. The bill (albeit not perfect) provides for this... So, imo... It's a good start, and most certainly better than nothing... Though I also admit I voted before I saw the 'I wish I were voting for a better bill' option. Go figure, eh? *insert embarrassed smiley here*

 

[humboldtsbest]

Its irritating to keep hearing people say the same thing.. "People should not go to jail for marijuan" " A conviction on ur record ruins your life". "All these people saying no would change their tune if they were facing legal difficulties" and shit like that. That is not what this bill is about.. Or is it? Come on.. Yes passing this bill will release many people that should not be locked up for stupid marijuana charges.. And people wont go to jail because of them anymore. Im all for that. Lets "decriminalize" MJ.. Im down.. Ive been throught the legal situation a plenty. Spent plenty of time in the CDC.. Not just pussy ass jail. I still am voting no. Decrinalize marijuana. Thats what this should be about. But this bill is about Taxing. With taxing comes a whole shit load of more dramatic politics.. Regardless though. Any grower that has been around knows his product. Has faithin it. So that wont change no matter which way this ends up..

 

[IGotTheCottons]

When it's 'decriminalized' it's still not legal... You will still get citations for being caught (much like a speeding ticket)... So the government is still making money off of weed.

It's just as irritating to hear the same repeated arguments from the no-voters, too...

"it's not legalization, it's taxation"

No. It's BOTH.

Alcohol is legal, no? Do you not pay taxes on your alcohol?

Same with cigarettes.

Same with McDonald's.

Everything you buy, that is not a necessity (necessities being: groceries at the food store that aren't pre-prepared, clothing, etc.) has taxes applied to it. Everything. Why would anyone, in their right mind, think weed will/should/could be any different?

If you go to the store, and buy pre-packaged buds, you're going to pay taxes. Same as if you go to the store, and pick up a 1/5 of vodka.

So, if they legalize you gotta pay taxes. With decriminalization, you get a ticket if you get caught... Either way, the government is making money off of it...

All I'm seeing on the 'it shouldn't pass' side are a bunch of greedy growers who are afraid of losing money... Instead of trying to think of ways to use it to their advantage.

Like others have mentioned, there will be a lot of good that will come from this bill, in the way of tourism and shit, that will really help the state. The happiness of the millions of people this will benefit, outweigh anyone's bank account, imho.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I don't think it's perfect, but I don't think the stoner/hippie/criminal/growers "perfect" legalization would ever pass. And 2012???? Funny how yal act like it's such a sure thing. How many older smokers thought for sure it would be legalized in the 70s. Here it is 40 years later and yal are ready to keep it illegal with some false hope that were just being impatient???? Or is it that you really couldn't give a fuck if it was illegal for another 40 years ( I truly believe it is the latter of the two...)

so as flawed as 19 is I do think it's perfect for a chance at actually passing. I think the free for all you all dream of never would have a chance of passing. Maybe yal would prefer that. That way you can still act like you give a shit while knowing this hippie pipe dream utoia would never pass thus accomplishing your true wishes I.e. Keeping it illegal so you cancontinue to profit off prohibition ....

I don't need to judge you. You can do whatever the fuck you like. Hopefully you won't burn in the rotting depths of hell for your choice.

 

[humboldtsbest]

When it's 'decriminalized' it's still not legal... You will still get citations for being caught (much like a speeding ticket)... So the government is still making money off of weed.

It's just as irritating to hear the same repeated arguments from the no-voters, too...

"it's not legalization, it's taxation"

No. It's BOTH.

Alcohol is legal, no? Do you not pay taxes on your alcohol?

Same with cigarettes.

Same with McDonald's.

Everything you buy, that is not a necessity (necessities being: groceries at the food store that aren't pre-prepared, clothing, etc.) has taxes applied to it. Everything. Why would anyone, in their right mind, think weed will/should/could be any different?

If you go to the store, and buy pre-packaged buds, you're going to pay taxes. Same as if you go to the store, and pick up a 1/5 of vodka.

So, if they legalize you gotta pay taxes. With decriminalization, you get a ticket if you get caught... Either way, the government is making money off of it...

All I'm seeing on the 'it shouldn't pass' side are a bunch of greedy growers who are afraid of losing money... Instead of trying to think of ways to use it to their advantage.

Like others have mentioned, there will be a lot of good that will come from this bill, in the way of tourism and shit, that will really help the state. The happiness of the millions of people this will benefit, outweigh anyone's bank account, imho.

LOL. Wow. Are u mr. lee's wingman or what? A citation is not a criminal record.. Is that not the argument when people for are arguing about the legal aspect? That is my point.. I also said I dont care about taxing. I was simply pointing out that the bill is not about legalizing it. Its about taxing it. Everyone is so caught up in being part of "The Movement" that they are not taking time to recognize what this is.. Why not wait 2 more years? Its been this long. What is two more years to wait? U will be part of the Movement alright. I will say it again.. Im gonna be just fine with my product just like I am now.. Either way it goes Im okay with it. I would just rather see it waited out a bit and re-vamped a bit..

 

[desertsquirrel]

Great posts hammer... Get one foot in the door and then kick it down with the other foot.

 

[mullray]

Sorry but name calling will not further your cause. I am voting no. This prop gives all the power to the prohibitionist to do as they see fit and will not do anything to curb the incarceration rate as it stands now. I get so fired up when people insult us for voting no that it motivates me to influence others to vote no as well. Just for this outburst of insults my goal is to get 5 more this week to vote no. I am sorry but I do not agree with giving them the power to enslave us. As it is now... my neck of the woods has a ban. Also with the new leader of the dea... this bill will do more harm than good.

Bet ya the DEA are voting no on Prop 19. It's not perfect but it's the best we're going to get for now. Waiting 2 years in the hope something better is tabled is BS. Once Prop 19 is in then it is up to people to lobby and change aspects of it. What a wonderful thing legalization is. Growers and smokers will now have a voice in a legal framework and with that comes the ability to challenge within a legal framework. Other than this, how seriously do you think the courts will look at indiscretions within this legal framework? Voting no on Prop 19 puts you in bed with the DEA and every other Prohibitionist out there.

 

[Krusher]

I really really dont give a damn on what happens in cali...really...cause i am from Greece...But i remember my self telling for the millionth time about cannabis legalization with damn right arguements.I think that there is no point on trying changing someones mind on voting yes or no...cause every one of us here has some good reasons to vote "yes" or "no".But i will say one thing...that i am f*ckin sick and tired hiding from cops all the time...having 1 gram of pot and thinking about goin in jail...puttin 2 plants at an indoor garden and every time my ring bells having the fear of a cop searching my apartment...goin at every idiot who sells shyte weed and paying a fortune for it...and at last beeing treated as a heroin user...rofl...thanks for reading have a nice day.Peace!

 

[amannamedtruth]

HumboldtsBest, you are wrong. You still get a misdemeanor marijuana charge, even though you were merely cited and got a 100 dollar ticket. That stays on the record, and employers still see it...The 'its been 2 years, why not wait two more?' statement is completely invalid without any shred of an initiative coming then.

Here's the Yahoo!Answers rundown of getting busted for mere possession in Cali.
Marijuana ticket in California need help please?
Pen C section 853.6 says that when an officer issues a citation for a misdemeanor (which this is), he can direct the cited person to go to the police station to be booked, and a verification of that will be provided. However, the result of not doing so is that the court can order the defendant to comply, unless the prosecutor agrees it is not necessary. Since that agreement is always a possibility, I'd wait to see what happens in court.

Getting a later recommendation for MJ is NOT a defense to possession MJ when you did NOT have one (although it might be a mitigating factor). It is true that the fine is only $100 (which, with various assessments, actually comes to more than $400), but there are other possible consequences to things like public housing, student loans, foreign travel, and, if you are under 21, your drivers license. First offense or not, the conviction certainly DOES go on your record (although that record is automatically destroyed after a few years).

Since this is a misdemeanor, if you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you. If you can afford counsel, you should at least discuss this matter with an attorney before you go to court.
Source(s):
30+ years as a criminal defense attorney

How long does a Misdemeanor Marijuana charge stay on your record?

Forever. ALL offenses you are convicted of will stay on your driving record/ Computerized criminal history.
Even traffic offenses stay on your record forever. The 3 year rule many refer to is when the points will drop from your Driver's License, however, if a police officer were to run your driving record they would have access to all your convictions.

however, in California, who knows, that state is highly confusing to the rest of the 49 states.

Consult a layer in California
Source(s):
Police officer

Ways of getting a marijuana citation off your record?

California has NOT decriminalized marijuana possession--it is a misdemeanor offense, although the maximum punishment is a fine. You are quite right to be concerned about possible effect upon financial aid. Additionally, if you are under 21, there is a one year drivers license suspension upon conviction. There are many ways to avoid conviction, which an attorney can help you with. Since this is a misdemeanor, you are entitled to appointed counsel if you cannot afford to hire an attorney.

Eventually, however, it will go away whatever happens, since all records of marijuana possession convictions are destroyed after 2 years.
Source(s):
35+ years as a criminal defense attorney.

Any grower not endorsing this is making money off of the threat of caging people, same as police and drug rehabilitationists.

Marc Emery said "Any person not supporting this initiative is an enemy to the movement."

CAN SOMEBODY WHO KEEPS TALKING ABOUT 2012 SHOW ME SOME INFO ABOUT THE INITIATIVES AND SIGNATURE GATHERING BEING DONE?
I'll be done with this flame war after that.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

Just because you can copy and paste does not mean you are educated on politics. All of the heavy hitters, I mean the billionaire heavy hitters did not support this bill. Even the 100 millionaires did not support it. Richard Lee was told by all of the big players to wait until 2012. That is that. Believe me, don't believe me, whatever. It will not change anything. I will not rant online. Everyone has their own idea of what the truth is. I guess the more you copy and paste the closer you are to the truth.

P.S. You will also see more politicians than ever taking an open stance for marijuana reform in 2012.
P.S.S. There are many people who study the past to better judge what will happen in the future. All you have to do is read the material. It would surprise you to see how much of the future is "predictable". I made investments in the collapse of the economy because of information like this. I made a shit load of money when everyone was losing everything. I made a huge profit on a house when everyone could not even sell theirs. It made my business better than it has ever been. Money, Politics, War, you name it, you should know of what will be going on 2 years ahead of time, even up to 5 years ahead. These things take years of planning.That's why it's more "isider information"than "pedicting". It's also not really that "insider". Most people are just to blinded to see it. It's all there infront of you. You just have to know where to look, and who to talk to. The future is bright my friends. The future is very bright.

 

[Kalicokitty]

I'm voting no because of the Taxes, the Taxes, lmao! Yeah right.

If you're such a big anti tax guy, then when it passes, go dump a bunch of warehouse weed in the bay, and have yourself a little modern tea party.

The taxes, the taxes= My profits, my profits

You people should be ashamed of yourselves

 

[Babbabud]

simple question

simple question

I don't think it's perfect, but I don't think the stoner/hippie/criminal/growers "perfect" legalization would ever pass. And 2012???? Funny how yal act like it's such a sure thing. How many older smokers thought for sure it would be legalized in the 70s. Here it is 40 years later and yal are ready to keep it illegal with some false hope that were just being impatient???? Or is it that you really couldn't give a fuck if it was illegal for another 40 years ( I truly believe it is the latter of the two...)

so as flawed as 19 is I do think it's perfect for a chance at actually passing. I think the free for all you all dream of never would have a chance of passing. Maybe yal would prefer that. That way you can still act like you give a shit while knowing this hippie pipe dream utoia would never pass thus accomplishing your true wishes I.e. Keeping it illegal so you cancontinue to profit off prohibition ....

I don't need to judge you. You can do whatever the fuck you like. Hopefully you won't burn in the rotting depths of hell for your choice.

I didnt think the question was so complicated. I simply asked if you guys who voted to Vote yes on 19 in it present form really thought it was perfect... not anything about anything else .. just about the vote in the pole. I said I would vote YES but wished it could be a better Bill. Its a simple question ... I couldnt deny that I wish they would just let it be legal ... although any move forward can and prolly will help... there is still a lot to be desired. Simple point.
I cant imagine anyone thinking this Bill is perfect so I have to think Hammerhead is right and you guys didnt take the time to read the pole.... I hope we have read the Bill better then the pole

 

[IGotTheCottons]

LOL. Wow. Are u mr. lee's wingman or what? A citation is not a criminal record.. Is that not the argument when people for are arguing about the legal aspect? That is my point.. I also said I dont care about taxing. I was simply pointing out that the bill is not about legalizing it. Its about taxing it. Everyone is so caught up in being part of "The Movement" that they are not taking time to recognize what this is.. Why not wait 2 more years? Its been this long. What is two more years to wait? U will be part of the Movement alright. I will say it again.. Im gonna be just fine with my product just like I am now.. Either way it goes Im okay with it. I would just rather see it waited out a bit and re-vamped a bit..

1.) I don't even know who Mr. Lee is, lol. I actually have a life outside of watching the news, and going on the internet.

2.) I never said my sole reason for wanting it legal was to get rid of a criminal record (which you STILL do get if it you get caught... as brought up in the below quoted post)... Though that is a pretty big part of it... There's also a such thing as your right to pursue happiness... Weed should be legal. Period. Who fucking cares if it's regulated, and you have to pay taxes? Would you really expect anything less than regulation & taxation, on a drug?

3.) Why not wait 2 years? Because there is absolutely no guarantee that this will be on the ballot in 2 years. Please - Show me HARD PROOF that this ABSOLUTELY will be on the ballot in 2012, and I'll vote no... Until you can do that, I will be voting yes, while I actually can.

4.) If this bill is not about legalizing it, then how come it SPECIFICALLY says that adults, of age, will LEGALLY be allowed to possess/consume MJ? Please - show me the part of the bill that says it's not going to be legal - because every time I've read it, I saw the word 'legal' there, clear as day.

HumboldtsBest, you are wrong. You still get a misdemeanor marijuana charge, even though you were merely cited and got a 100 dollar ticket. That stays on the record, and employers still see it...

......

California has NOT decriminalized marijuana possession--it is a misdemeanor offense, although the maximum punishment is a fine. You are quite right to be concerned about possible effect upon financial aid. Additionally, if you are under 21, there is a one year drivers license suspension upon conviction. There are many ways to avoid conviction, which an attorney can help you with. Since this is a misdemeanor, you are entitled to appointed counsel if you cannot afford to hire an attorney.

Eventually, however, it will go away whatever happens, since all records of marijuana possession convictions are destroyed after 2 years.
Source(s):
35+ years as a criminal defense attorney.

Any grower not endorsing this is making money off of the threat of caging people, same as police and drug rehabilitationists.

Marc Emery said "Any person not supporting this initiative is an enemy to the movement."

CAN SOMEBODY WHO KEEPS TALKING ABOUT 2012 SHOW ME SOME INFO ABOUT THE INITIATIVES AND SIGNATURE GATHERING BEING DONE?
I'll be done with this flame war after that.

I'm with you. I keep hearing all this shit about 2012, but yet NO ONE will post any of their sources.

I dunno about you... But I think I smell some BS... I mean, if it's such a guaranteed thing - wouldn't they be posting links, upon links, upon links - in order to back up those claims?

But nope... No links... Even though they've been asked repeatedly, by several people...

Just because you can copy and paste does not mean you are educated on politics. All of the heavy hitters, I mean the billionaire heavy hitters did not support this bill. Even the 100 millionaires did not support it. Richard Lee was told by all of the big players to wait until 2012. That is that. Believe me, don't believe me, whatever. It will not change anything. I will not rant online. Everyone has their own idea of what the truth is. I guess the more you copy and paste the closer you are to the truth.

P.S. You will also see more politicians than ever taking an open stance for marijuana reform in 2012.
P.S.S. There are many people who study the past to better judge what will happen in the future. All you have to do is read the material. It would surprise you to see how much of the future is "predictable". I made investments in the collapse of the economy because of information like this. I made a shit load of money when everyone was losing everything. I made a huge profit on a house when everyone could not even sell theirs. It made my business better than it has ever been. Money, Politics, War, you name it, you should know of what will be going on 2 years ahead of time, even up to 5 years ahead. These things take years of planning.That's why it's more "isider information"than "pedicting". It's also not really that "insider". Most people are just to blinded to see it. It's all there infront of you. You just have to know where to look, and who to talk to. The future is bright my friends. The future is very bright.

Once again... Sources? Where is all this information about 2012???

 

[OrganicOzarks]

My sources for 2012? I guess sometimes you just have to have faith. Although I will say for the past five years I have been positioning myself to do well finacialy, and it has all been based off of this information. I knew about the economy collapsing two and half years ahead. I did well off of it. I also know about 2012. I have positioned myself for this as well. I will do very well when 2012 comes. I have been planning it for the past two years. You guys are way behind the times. Let me just say that the people who get rich, and i mean fucking filthy rich, are the ones that make the laws. The others just follow the heard, and rant on forums. I don't rant, and I don't share sources. I guess that means I am full of shit. Can't wait for 2012. There is great opportunity in the air however by the time 2012 comes it will all be gone. The early bird does indeed get the worm.

This is not the bill. I know I am not copy and pasting, but I am dead serious in telling you that this is not the right bill. Patience is a virtue. It will be worth the wait. Trust me, or don't. It really doesn't matter at this point. I tried.

 

[Bombadillio]

A lot of people seemed to be concerned about the price staying high after Prop 19. I don't know about ya'll, but assuming it is legal under Prop 19, I would just grow my own. As to quality of pot dropping due to industrialization, I know the difference between shit pot and nuggets, and so do the majority of pot smokers.

 

[TruthOrLie]

A lot of people seemed to be concerned about the price staying high after Prop 19. I don't know about ya'll, but assuming it is legal under Prop 19, I would just grow my own. As to quality of pot dropping due to industrialization, I know the difference between shit pot and nuggets, and so do the majority of pot smokers.

On a side note... it took me my first five or so years of consumption before I got hip to what to look for in quality.

The best easily stands out from the worst, but there is a lot of goodness to be found in between if you know what to look for.

 

[TruthOrLie]

My sources for 2012? I guess sometimes you just have to have faith. Although I will say for the past five years I have been positioning myself to do well finacialy, and it has all been based off of this information. I knew about the economy collapsing two and half years ahead. I did well off of it. I also know about 2012. I have positioned myself for this as well. I will do very well when 2012 comes. I have been planning it for the past two years. You guys are way behind the times. Let me just say that the people who get rich, and i mean fucking filthy rich, are the ones that make the laws. The others just follow the heard, and rant on forums. I don't rant, and I don't share sources. I guess that means I am full of shit. Can't wait for 2012. There is great opportunity in the air however by the time 2012 comes it will all be gone. The early bird does indeed get the worm.

This is not the bill. I know I am not copy and pasting, but I am dead serious in telling you that this is not the right bill. Patience is a virtue. It will be worth the wait. Trust me, or don't. It really doesn't matter at this point. I tried.

FAITH? in politics?! Did Obama come to you in a dream and tell you he would legalize it across the country if he's re-elected in 2012?

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I didnt think the question was so complicated. I simply asked if you guys who voted to Vote yes on 19 in it present form really thought it was perfect... not anything about anything else .. just about the vote in the pole. I said I would vote YES but wished it could be a better Bill. Its a simple question ... I couldnt deny that I wish they would just let it be legal ... although any move forward can and prolly will help... there is still a lot to be desired. Simple point.
I cant imagine anyone thinking this Bill is perfect so I have to think Hammerhead is right and you guys didnt take the time to read the pole.... I hope we have read the Bill better then the pole

Babba I've read 19 several times. As I said I don't think it's perfect for us,,, but I think it is perfect in a sense that it will appeal to those outside of our mj people (if that makes any sense???)

I do have reserves,, but what really puts me over the line is the no limits on home posessision.

That is the hook line sinker. Possess as much as you want... I love it.

Also it makes all paraphanelia legal, thus making PC much harder to substantiate....

 

[IGotTheCottons]

My sources for 2012? I guess sometimes you just have to have faith. Although I will say for the past five years I have been positioning myself to do well finacialy, and it has all been based off of this information. I knew about the economy collapsing two and half years ahead. I did well off of it. I also know about 2012. I have positioned myself for this as well. I will do very well when 2012 comes. I have been planning it for the past two years. You guys are way behind the times. Let me just say that the people who get rich, and i mean fucking filthy rich, are the ones that make the laws. The others just follow the heard, and rant on forums. I don't rant, and I don't share sources. I guess that means I am full of shit. Can't wait for 2012. There is great opportunity in the air however by the time 2012 comes it will all be gone. The early bird does indeed get the worm.

This is not the bill. I know I am not copy and pasting, but I am dead serious in telling you that this is not the right bill. Patience is a virtue. It will be worth the wait. Trust me, or don't. It really doesn't matter at this point. I tried.

But if so many people are talking about it (like you claimed in your other post) - then let's see where they're talking about it.

And dude... I hate to break it to you... But us doubting you does not mean we're behind the times. It means we're reasonable/logical people - who don't believe something just because some random person on the internet says we should.

Without sources, your claims mean absolutely nothing... See, I can do it too... Watch:

Hey guys... In 2012, santa clause is going to wave his magic wand and completely end prohibition. What? You've never heard anything about that? Well billionaires have been talking about it for a while now. Where's my sources, you say? Well, I have them - but I'm not going to share them. You're just behind the times.

That's basically what you keep repeating.



Oh, and for the record... Anyone who was paying attention could have foresaw the economy going to shit. I predicted that back when we invaded Iraq in 2003 - FIVE YEARS prior to it actually happening. Know what that means? Absolutely nothing, lol. It was obvious that our country was heading for a shit-storm, to anyone who bothered paying attention... So you predicting the economy going to shit, 2.5 years prior to it happening, doesn't make you special. It just means you recognized that Bush is retarded, and would eventually bankrupt the country.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

FAITH? in politics?! Did Obama come to you in a dream and tell you he would legalize it across the country if he's re-elected in 2012?

No, but i did know that Obama was going to be president two years before the election. I had so many people say, "god damnit you were right". I was not right. My sources were right. All you have to do is open your eyes, and you can greatly increase the likelyhood of being right. 90%+ is easily achievable. The future is happening right now. You just have to know how to read it. Again, I tried. Rant on people.